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Dovahkiin wrote:But even if that was a commandment, I would still take the position I have. Religion has no place dictating law.

Indeed, but culture does.

Dovahkiin wrote:

General Riviera wrote:George, a master troll?

There is no need for that.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:On topic, the lord should have had an 11th commandment...Thou shalt not abide poofs and their wants!

There are roughly 20 commandments, of those, 10 are lost to us.

But even if that was a commandment, I would still take the position I have. Religion has no place dictating law.

I agree, but establishing laws without a religious foundation will lead to what we have now or are on track to have..a cest pool of moral rot and decay that is rapidly destroying the very fiber of this nation. Thats a fact..how can I stand on that? I am glad you asked..I can see it happening.

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:But even if that was a commandment, I would still take the position I have. Religion has no place dictating law.

Indeed, but culture does.

No, it does not.

Jedi~Tank wrote:I agree, but establishing laws without a religious foundation will lead to what we have now or are on track to have..a cest pool of moral rot and decay that is rapidly destroying the very fiber of this nation. Thats a fact..how can I stand on that? I am glad you asked..I can see it happening.

I'm fine with the alleged moral decay.

Dovahkiin wrote:

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:But even if that was a commandment, I would still take the position I have. Religion has no place dictating law.

Indeed, but culture does.

No, it does not.

It does actually ... though it may be indirect

@KMA

This is a bit silly now.

"I hate them because of personal reasons that i wont go into..."

thats not an arguement in any way, shape or form. If you want to actually debate this you would need to go into those personal reasons. But right now the only thing we're seeing is an experience-distorted prejudiced hatred on a group of people.

It might actually be benificial for your KMA, to talk about those personal reasons
From this end, the way I see it, it is a lot controled frustration expressing in anger
Perhaps venting some of it as a contribution to this debate, might even help you on a personal level

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:But even if that was a commandment, I would still take the position I have. Religion has no place dictating law.

Indeed, but culture does.

No, it does not.

It does actually ... though it may be indirect

It has no place dictating law. It does dictate law, but so does religion.

Dovahkiin wrote:

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:But even if that was a commandment, I would still take the position I have. Religion has no place dictating law.

Indeed, but culture does.

No, it does not.

It does actually ... though it may be indirect

It has no place dictating law. It does dictate law, but so does religion.

For religion to dictate law, I can understand it has no place too, as they are the visions of a % of a population
But culture, exisiting from the very fabric that makes up for the majority of the population, their voice counts, else they would live in tirany and their laws dictated by tyrants

edit: we still have a few of those countries btw

Jedi~Tank wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:I agree, but establishing laws without a religious foundation will lead to what we have now or are on track to have..a cest pool of moral rot and decay that is rapidly destroying the very fiber of this nation. Thats a fact..how can I stand on that? I am glad you asked..I can see it happening.

Moral decay or personal freedom?

RepliMagni wrote:

Jedi~Tank wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:I agree, but establishing laws without a religious foundation will lead to what we have now or are on track to have..a cest pool of moral rot and decay that is rapidly destroying the very fiber of this nation. Thats a fact..how can I stand on that? I am glad you asked..I can see it happening.

Moral decay or personal freedom?

Moral decay is a direct consequence of personal freedom innacted irresponsibly.

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:But even if that was a commandment, I would still take the position I have. Religion has no place dictating law.

Indeed, but culture does.

Culture is the whole problem when it comes to same-sex marriage.

A child in our current culture and society, whether raised by a single parent, a mom and dad, or a same-sex couple, is raised with the ideals of our culture. Even if that child were to, at some point in time, discover they are attracted to members of the same sex, or both sexes, or no sexes, it is still a part of their culture to want to marry the person they love and eventually have a family unit (traditional or untraditional). Just because an individual is LGBTQ does not mean they have entirely different cultural values than the rest of society.

The biggest struggle LGBTQ people go through is surviving their culture. At some point in their life they learn they feel differently than the majority of our society. They get teased, bullied, threatened, beaten, disowned by their families, and lose friends because they have become cultural deviants. They aren't a different culture entirely, as they have many of the same cultural views as the rest of us with only a few small (in my opinion) differences.

Especially those who have been disowned by their family and/or friends for being who they are want to eventually have their own family where a child can be loved and supported no matter what their decisions in life. I disagree with the notion same-sex couples would be bad parents; yes, it would be different, but not bad for the child. Also, despite the number of heterosexual couples wanting to adopt, there are still more kids than there are families. If the child is old enough to make the decision on if they want to be raised by two moms/dads or grow up in an orphanage, let them make that choice.

Psyko wrote:

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:But even if that was a commandment, I would still take the position I have. Religion has no place dictating law.

Indeed, but culture does.

Culture is the whole problem when it comes to same-sex marriage.

A child in our current culture and society, whether raised by a single parent, a mom and dad, or a same-sex couple, is raised with the ideals of our culture. Even if that child were to, at some point in time, discover they are attracted to members of the same sex, or both sexes, or no sexes, it is still a part of their culture to want to marry the person they love and eventually have a family unit (traditional or untraditional). Just because an individual is LGBTQ does not mean they have entirely different cultural values than the rest of society.

The biggest struggle LGBTQ people go through is surviving their culture. At some point in their life they learn they feel differently than the majority of our society. They get teased, bullied, threatened, beaten, disowned by their families, and lose friends because they have become cultural deviants. They aren't a different culture entirely, as they have many of the same cultural views as the rest of us with only a few small (in my opinion) differences.

Especially those who have been disowned by their family and/or friends for being who they are want to eventually have their own family where a child can be loved and supported no matter what their decisions in life. I disagree with the notion same-sex couples would be bad parents; yes, it would be different, but not bad for the child. Also, despite the number of heterosexual couples wanting to adopt, there are still more kids than there are families. If the child is old enough to make the decision on if they want to be raised by two moms/dads or grow up in an orphanage, let them make that choice.

Good points, but leaving those kind of decisions up to a child to make is kinda back asswords.

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:But even if that was a commandment, I would still take the position I have. Religion has no place dictating law.

Indeed, but culture does.

No, it does not.

It does actually ... though it may be indirect

It has no place dictating law. It does dictate law, but so does religion.

For religion to dictate law, I can understand it has no place too, as they are the visions of a % of a population
But culture, exisiting from the very fabric that makes up for the majority of the population, their voice counts, else they would live in tirany and their laws dictated by tyrants

edit: we still have a few of those countries btw

Majority imposed tyranny is still tyranny.

Laws should be based on what is fair and just, culture has no business deciding that.

Dovahkiin wrote:

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:

Duck Dodgers wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:But even if that was a commandment, I would still take the position I have. Religion has no place dictating law.

Indeed, but culture does.

No, it does not.

It does actually ... though it may be indirect

It has no place dictating law. It does dictate law, but so does religion.

For religion to dictate law, I can understand it has no place too, as they are the visions of a % of a population
But culture, exisiting from the very fabric that makes up for the majority of the population, their voice counts, else they would live in tirany and their laws dictated by tyrants

edit: we still have a few of those countries btw

Majority imposed tyranny is still tyranny.

Laws should be based on what is fair and just, culture has no business deciding that.

Ah but for that you have values and culture to determine what is fair and just...sorry to tell you but there is no "absolute objective fair and just", in some nations what's "fair and just" isn't the same as in the US. Of course the US people might consider this alternate version as not fair and not just, same as us Europeans do, I'm not here to plead neutrality for cultures, just to tell you that you cannot say culture has no business deciding that.

Dovahkiin wrote:Majority imposed tyranny is still tyranny.

Laws should be based on what is fair and just, culture has no business deciding that.

I would call a worst case variant of that a mob rule, perhaps.
other then that its more of a democracy

edit: fair and just lays in the eye of the beholder