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But wouldn't it increase safety if, before you get a gun, they'll see if you are mentally unstable ? Those who are a danger to themselves and to others should not carry a gun. It's the reason you have these school shootings. It's not a violation since it's only making sure you are sane. Insane people have nothing to do with firearms. (I'm not talking about the background check, just the mental check)

Who decides what is and isn't insane? Some faceless bureaucrat? How are they going to choose what mental "disorders" make you a "danger?" If the AWB is any indicator, they'll pick whatever sounds scary.

Bipolar disorder? Not scary sounding, hell I might even have some bipolar glasses (polarized). They can have guns!

Psychopathy? Everyone knows that psychos are horrible and violent people. Plus it sounds scary, banned!

Except that psychopaths are nonviolent and usually law abiding. Whereas bipolar people are more likely to be the ones that freak out and shoot someone. But I don't even think there's that big of a risk of that happening.

Nah, such a requirement would only serve to arbitrarily deny people their rights. Gun grabbing politicians would just expand the prohibited conditions until everyone is prohibited for some reason or other. Just like what has happened with background checks just about.

@Kjarkur, what you will not easily understand is that the American gun culture (those who truly understand why the 2nd amendment to the US constitution) and those who truly understand the bill of rights understand the importance of guns and high capacity magazines. this is something you will not understand for 2 reasons, 1) you yourself admitted to being indoctrinated at school against against guns.
2), you are a nation of what, 400.000 people? with such a small nation it's easy for you people to rally and take back your govt as you did with what happened with the banks in 08. in the US now, it's a fact that the US govt is illegitimate.

Obama himself has committed high treason by also sitting on the UN security council when it is expressly forbidden by the US constitution. Obama has committed many other crimes including crimes against humanity around the world. the man is a monster, that doesn't mean the other presidential mainstream candidates are any good, they are all as bad as each other....


Let me ask you a hypothetical question...what if there is another crises and Obama declares martial law through executive orders....you seriously think he will not instantly become a dictator?

The USA is only 1 crises away from martial law, the executive orders have been signed and all the infrastructure is in place for Obama-or any other president-from declaring martial law and turning the US in to a giant prison. make no mistake, this is not an exaggeration. For this reason alone the American people need their guns. America is a beacon of freedom for the whole world.
If the American people can pull themselves together and bring the bankers to justice, the whole world will follow. if the bankers and the UN win and they get the American peoples guns...lights out!

Listen with your own ears Panetta commit high treason with his own mouth!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcUTO1dFoRU

Dovahkiin wrote:Who decides what is and isn't insane? Some faceless bureaucrat? How are they going to choose what mental "disorders" make you a "danger?" If the AWB is any indicator, they'll pick whatever sounds scary.

Bipolar disorder? Not scary sounding, hell I might even have some bipolar glasses (polarized). They can have guns!

Psychopathy? Everyone knows that psychos are horrible and violent people. Plus it sounds scary, banned!

Except that psychopaths are nonviolent and usually law abiding. Whereas bipolar people are more likely to be the ones that freak out and shoot someone. But I don't even think there's that big of a risk of that happening.

Nah, such a requirement would only serve to arbitrarily deny people their rights. Gun grabbing politicians would just expand the prohibited conditions until everyone is prohibited for some reason or other. Just like what has happened with background checks just about.

I was thinking more of the line's of when a X number of experts agree that person has problem's defining right and wrong. (I.e. subclinical psychopath, sociopath) - if they would - they would have follow up tests and of course. I believe this has been successful elsewhere.

Also - how will US fight against increasing numbers of illegal guns on the street? Don't tell me you just wanna keep it there. If you gonna have everyone armed, you should aim to have them registered (I believe you should always aim for high goals even if it's impossible )

Is it even possible to try and decrease the number of illegal guns? Or at least prevent them from increasing so rapidly ?

-KJ

Kjarkur wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:Who decides what is and isn't insane? Some faceless bureaucrat? How are they going to choose what mental "disorders" make you a "danger?" If the AWB is any indicator, they'll pick whatever sounds scary.

Bipolar disorder? Not scary sounding, hell I might even have some bipolar glasses (polarized). They can have guns!

Psychopathy? Everyone knows that psychos are horrible and violent people. Plus it sounds scary, banned!

Except that psychopaths are nonviolent and usually law abiding. Whereas bipolar people are more likely to be the ones that freak out and shoot someone. But I don't even think there's that big of a risk of that happening.

Nah, such a requirement would only serve to arbitrarily deny people their rights. Gun grabbing politicians would just expand the prohibited conditions until everyone is prohibited for some reason or other. Just like what has happened with background checks just about.

I was thinking more of the line's of when a X number of experts agree that person has problem's defining right and wrong. (I.e. subclinical psychopath, sociopath) - if they would - they would have follow up tests and of course. I believe this has been successful elsewhere.

Also - how will US fight against increasing numbers of illegal guns on the street? Don't tell me you just wanna keep it there. If you gonna have everyone armed, you should aim to have them registered (I believe you should always aim for high goals even if it's impossible )

Is it even possible to try and decrease the number of illegal guns? Or at least prevent them from increasing so rapidly ?

-KJ

Pro gun orginizations such as the NRA recommend that you keep a list of your firearms and their serial numbers, so if one does get stolen, It can be easily reported to the athourities. All gun stores are required to put a guns serial number on a bill of sale as well, so law enforcement can tell if the gun was legally purchased at a US store or if it came from elsewhere. our problem is that guns come across the border just as easily as drugs do. Border control is a big thing with controlling the flow of illegal stuff. for every gun that authorities find, there's likely 2 or 3 more they will never find.

As for my thoughts on the way background checks should be run is they do the initial test for psychological and criminal history, and have an option that if one of those doesnt pass, you should be subjected to a couple of interviews with psychologists and such to have the opportunity to get an override. and dont allow law makers to decide which "symptoms" need to be watched for, leave that to the people whom spent years and years in school learning that exact trade.

What's the point of registration if anyone can buy guns?

Dovahkiin wrote:What's the point of registration if anyone can buy guns?

the main argument is that they can then know if a gun is legal or not, which they already can just by checking if a gun with that serial number was sold at a gun shop or not.

Honestly, having to register your name and address to them has HISTORICALLY led to them getting seized by the government, which has HISTORICALLY also led to mass genocide of races, religions, and political parties. It hasnt happened all the time, as with Great Britain, Australia, Iceland, etc. but it did happen multiple times in the 20th century, even as late as the 90's. I dont like those odds.

But see, if anyone can but any gun then all guns become legal. A registration requirement would just create illegal guns and cause good men like myself to become criminals.

Dovahkiin wrote:But see, if anyone can but any gun then all guns become legal. A registration requirement would just create illegal guns and cause good men like myself to become criminals.

Why wouldn't you want to register your guns?

Kjarkur wrote:

Dovahkiin wrote:But see, if anyone can but any gun then all guns become legal. A registration requirement would just create illegal guns and cause good men like myself to become criminals.

Why wouldn't you want to register your guns?

Would you register your computer with the government? How about all of your accounts on the websites you visit? Would you register your phone and all other electronic items?

It's not any of their business what I own.

if we need guns to protect ourselves from the government..shouldn't we be allowed to be SAM,.50 cals and AT-4s? if the government uses the military against our population there wont be a damn thing we can do to stop them.. and as for guns laws dont work Chicago just had it first year without the handgun ban.. and what do you know gunshot homicides went up 17% and they already up 15% versus 2011 some places need very strict gun control while others dont..but at the same time that makes it harder for law enforcement officer to do there job.. criminals dont care if you have a gun or dont.. hence why they shoot at police

edit
also i think this is a great idea
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/01/ ... -insurance
Adjusting for population, the U.S. death rate by firearms -- which includes homicides, suicide and accidents -- was 10.2 per 100,000 people in 2009, according to the Coalition for Gun Control. The closest developed country was Finland, with a firearms death rate of 4.47 per 100,000 people in 2008, less than half that of the U.S. rate. In Canada, the rate was 2.5 per 100,000 people in 2009. In the United Kingdom, the 2011 rate was 0.25 per 100,000 people.

Dovahkiin wrote:Would you register your computer with the government? How about all of your accounts on the websites you visit? Would you register your phone and all other electronic items?

It's not any of their business what I own.

I don't get it.

I for one have nothing to hide if they wanna see my search history by all means... Their funeral lmao.

But guns are highly dangerous weapons and as a safety to everyone in the world need be traceable. That should be a common goal for the entire world.

Because guns being traceable does exactly what?

Nothing, it doesn't stop crime and traced guns almost never solve crimes.

Dovahkiin wrote:What's the point of registration if anyone can buy guns?

Tracks down about I would guess 90% of murder weapons if they are fire-arm related...
The forensics we have even have speciality workers like Ballistics Forensics Divisions. i.e. Someone's wife was shot while husband was "fishing". At first looks like a home invasion. Til they match the bullet to the gun in the HUSBAND's gun safe still locked....And the serial number is registered to him. That is all evidence used to convict people in gun crimes. It's not like getting someone to buy you booze when you are under-age. They can trace crime with registration. NOT only the guns, but helps keep you safe if you are innocent, and convict if you are guilty. Which I may point out, knives are not registered....how many street stabbings are solved. Or prison shankings even!? Alot less than shootings simply because of the registration. Even if it was legal gun stolen, they can go back to the "real owner" and find out sometimes who has weapon, and go get them for murder etc.

@ Snuff - I agree soooo much with what you stand for, I just know that for us to have an evolved society some sort of heirarchy or government must be in place. Chaotic last minute scramblings from "tribal peoples" who took out their governments for anti-biotics is only one of a LOT of things that would happen if we took libertarianism to the extreme. Alot of good points as to listen to talking points from people like Ron Paul, Alex Jones, Gary Johnson. I have an ex-wife who is a libertarian. I like alot of what they see wrong just don't see a proper solution yet come from them. (NOT SAME AS LIBERALS WHO ARE PROGRESSSIVES)

I hear this is the final list of the executive orders, i'll be re-reading these a couple times to make sure I understand them before making any judgements.
************************************************
1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."

2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."

3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."

4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."

5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."

6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."

7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."

8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."

9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."

10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."

11. "Nominate an ATF director."

12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."

13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."

14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."

15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."

18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."

19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."

20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."

21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."

22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."

23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."