StarGateWars Forums

Posted: **Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:15 pm**

Semper wrote:Of course we should use it. It is.. after all... illegal for a reason is it not? My argument did not rely on it.. it used it... I aimed mainly at the fact it is commonly accepted as a step down a path of drug abuse and negativity and that it also points out several things in regards to someone's character but that this is not always the case either. This of course is based on personal experience too... not just here-say.

Just because many people believe that it is a gateway drug doesn't mean that it is. There is nothing in weed that literally MAKES you go out in search of harder drugs. One viewpoint on the subject of weed being a gateway drug that I like is that; a large amount of the people that go on to different harder drugs feel more comfortable doing it because weed is projected as being associated and as bad as the harder drugs. This is an image projected by a lot of the anti drug adds/ campaigns that don't distinguish the difference between weed and the harder drugs.

Meaning that IF weed is a "gateway" drug it is mainly so because of the way its portrayed by the majority of the people that are against it.

I won't try to argue that weed didn't effect the lives of the people you knew/ observed in a negative way, however suggest that it is relative to the people and their sociological surroundings. I've witnessed a lot to the contradictory of weed destroying lives or causing serious health problems such as schizophrenia (that was an argument someone tried to make earlier) or a stepping stone effect onto harder drugs. So I guess it's all relative.

Posted: **Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:52 am**

Alex wrote:
Semper wrote:Of course we should use it. It is.. after all... illegal for a reason is it not? My argument did not rely on it.. it used it... I aimed mainly at the fact it is commonly accepted as a step down a path of drug abuse and negativity and that it also points out several things in regards to someone's character but that this is not always the case either. This of course is based on personal experience too... not just here-say.

Just because many people believe that it is a gateway drug doesn't mean that it is. There is nothing in weed that literally MAKES you go out in search of harder drugs. One viewpoint on the subject of weed being a gateway drug that I like is that; a large amount of the people that go on to different harder drugs feel more comfortable doing it because weed is projected as being associated and as bad as the harder drugs. This is an image projected by a lot of the anti drug adds/ campaigns that don't distinguish the difference between weed and the harder drugs.

Meaning that IF weed is a "gateway" drug it is mainly so because of the way its portrayed by the majority of the people that are against it.

I won't try to argue that weed didn't effect the lives of the people you knew/ observed in a negative way, however suggest that it is relative to the people and their sociological surroundings. I've witnessed a lot to the contradictory of weed destroying lives or causing serious health problems such as schizophrenia (that was an argument someone tried to make earlier) or a stepping stone effect onto harder drugs. So I guess it's all relative.

While I agree in part not in entirely, I still stand by what I say but I see no use trying to convince you...

But I do agree that weed does not always lead to any other drug if at all...but harder drugs have far worse consequences..that is true..

Posted: **Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:10 pm**

Just to inject some humour into the debate...

'The Gateway Drug'
One of the major risks of marijuana is that it can function as a "gateway drug". Frequent and even casual users may become fascinated with gates, and as their dependency deepens, they may move on to more elaborate kinds of entries, including arches, turnstiles, and even portcullises. For this reason, it is prudent to remove the gate from your garden. Otherwise, you may find yourself suddenly beset upon by a reeking mob of spaced-out hippies, who will proceed to trample your flowers and engage in long, philosophical conversations with your garden gnomes.

Posted: **Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:00 pm**

It's only a gateway drug because it's illegal and ends up being sold by the same people who sell other illegal substances. The seller might recommend other, harder drugs once their customer is used to the idea of buying illegal substances.

If marijuana were legal, this setup wouldn't work, now would it? Heck, it would financially ruin a lot of the dealers who depend on the revenue it generates. Furthermore, it would lower the prices of marijuana, because the risk factor of producing and marketing it would go way down. Quality could be regulated, etc.

But hey, keeping it illegal keeps this weed at a highly inflated price, which helps the dealers and heightens costs in public drug busting operations - busting people for the possession or production of a plant which is ultimately less harmful than cigarettes. This has the ultimate effect of PROMOTING hard drugs by allowing marijuana to act as a gateway, but only because its illegality causes it to be sold by the same people who sell other illegal substances.

If anything, it is the illegality of marijuana that encourages the use of drugs that are actually dangerous. I'll say it again, I don't even smoke the stuff and as long as I don't smell the smoke, I'm happy, but I also recognise the issues caused by it being illegal. In this case, the fact that marijuana is illegal has more negative effects than positive ones, if indeed there are positive effects at all!

Agapooka

Posted: **Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:51 pm**

Agapooka wrote:It's only a gateway drug because it's illegal and ends up being sold by the same people who sell other illegal substances. The seller might recommend other, harder drugs once their customer is used to the idea of buying illegal substances.

If marijuana were legal, this setup wouldn't work, now would it? Heck, it would financially ruin a lot of the dealers who depend on the revenue it generates. Furthermore, it would lower the prices of marijuana, because the risk factor of producing and marketing it would go way down. Quality could be regulated, etc.

But hey, keeping it illegal keeps this weed at a highly inflated price, which helps the dealers and heightens costs in public drug busting operations - busting people for the possession or production of a plant which is ultimately less harmful than cigarettes. This has the ultimate effect of PROMOTING hard drugs by allowing marijuana to act as a gateway, but only because its illegality causes it to be sold by the same people who sell other illegal substances.

If anything, it is the illegality of marijuana that encourages the use of drugs that are actually dangerous. I'll say it again, I don't even smoke the stuff and as long as I don't smell the smoke, I'm happy, but I also recognise the issues caused by it being illegal. In this case, the fact that marijuana is illegal has more negative effects than positive ones, if indeed there are positive effects at all!

Agapooka

here here

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:47 am**

[KMA]Avenger wrote:back on topic, people have been getting "High" for thousands of years, i don't think we have SUDDENLY become so civilized we frown upon or look down on getting "High".

People have been killing for thousands of years...

So would you care to provide your data that proves that 100% of cannabis users are addicted and that cannabis use leads to a 100% addiction??

I dont need to because, lets face it, anything can be addicting, however, if we note the health detriments that cannabis causes. Primary and Secondary experience. That is my source. In addition, you should consult a real doctor if you are unsure of the effects and detriments of cannabis(Marijuana ) (ab)use

Would you care to provide your data on the health detriments?? We've (that is the pro crowd) have shown you our data on the benefits but all we hear from the nay crowd is how its going to destroy our lives with no proof other than hearsay.

I already have, in previous posts. Please look back, or just google it for yourself.

As for legal issues, well i'm not quite sure what you mean by that? I assume you mean what would happen to prosecutions for those who have been caught dealing or in possesion. Well one assumes that a blanket pardon would be in order, as well as release from custody anyone who had been convited of only cannabis use/dealing/possession. Thats about the only thing that would be needed as governments are protected from prosecution relating to such changes in law that would release people from custody (ie those released couldnt claim for false imprisonment etc)

I you dont understand, than you prove my point excatly. What do you think what would happen if weed was suddenly legalised? A precedent.

EDIT: I should point out that you are still confusing mental and phsyical addictions, they are two very different things indeed. Really you ought to learn the difference as only a phsyical addiction can cause your body any harm (and just in case you bring it up, cannabis use only very rarely leads to a phsyical addictionAre you sure, where is your source? {rarer than the risk presented by drugs used by the medical professions} most in fact i'd say probably somewhere to the order of 99.96% at least of those who might be considered addicted are only mentally addicted to the drug)lolz

Both addictions are hard to differentiate.. and thus, i talk of both.

its a VERIFIABLE FACT that Marijuana/Hemp is NOT addictive!

that is like saying smoking is NOT addictive. Plainly wrong.

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:15 am**

Mister Sandman wrote:
[KMA]Avenger wrote:back on topic, people have been getting "High" for thousands of years, i don't think we have SUDDENLY become so civilized we frown upon or look down on getting "High".

People have been killing for thousands of years...

people have been having sex for thousands of years...

Mister Sandman wrote:
its a VERIFIABLE FACT that Marijuana/Hemp is NOT addictive!

Mister Sandman wrote: that is like saying smoking is NOT addictive. Plainly wrong.

no, its not like saying "smoking is addictive", because, while smoking (IE, nicotine) IS addictive, there is nothing addictive about Marijuana/Hemp...

unless you have proof to the contrary?

before you answer that, keep in mind i HAVE smoked Marijuana a few times and i am also ( :oops:

) a smoker, have been smoking for 21 years, i was more or less hooked on smoking from my first cigarette, while on the other hand, i smoked Marijuana a few times and stopped just like that. so i talk from experience...

so i ask again, do you have proof or can speak from experience that Marijuana is addictive??

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:49 am**

Urgh... I stopped reading this half-way - seems to be my mind isn't completely present atm

Anyway:

- To confirm the point of someone - who was it, KitFox? - in the Netherlands the government has given an company licensed to the Wageningen University of Agriculture, Food & (? What was it again) an license to grow marihuana plants - this for medical use. This because it seems to be sure that someone gets more calm of it. LIKE ALL facts here posted, I somewhere found it with very good credentials - but I cannot find it directly again. When I feel a bit better, I'll attempt to search again. BTW, this fact was in the news paper half a year ago.
- Also proven is that marihuana isn't addictive in itself - however, 'producers' (the illegal ones at least) have been adding extra THC to it often - and as you should know when discussing this topic - THC is an addictive 'drug' when it is in something in larger amounts, that will keep (just like the tobacco in sigarettes and alcohol in drinks) that the is the potential addictive part.
- Known is that in Netherlands - as opposed as to the USA, where it is strictly forbidden like most countries - the percentage of teeners and adults that are addicted to it and the % who have used it - funnily enough - are lower, while it is legal in the Netherlands to use and in the USA it is not. Of course, this is likely mostly due to 'It is forbidden, so I want to try it!'-mindstate of a lot of people. Forbid it, and it suddenly becomes attractive to people who likely otherwise wouldn't use it.
- Due to it being legal - criminals are attracted to it. And when criminals appear, the little jokers who tail them appear who tend to mess with the drug itself. Like dealers mess with the coke by adding salt or other things to it.

This is it so far - I'll post more later
-Ben

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:16 am**

i cant speak for others posting here, but as far as i am concerned, when i speak about marijuana i am referring to pure unadulterated, added-to, or otherwise tampered with Marijuana.

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:32 am**

Mister Sandman wrote:
[KMA]Avenger wrote:back on topic, people have been getting "High" for thousands of years, i don't think we have SUDDENLY become so civilized we frown upon or look down on getting "High".

People have been killing for thousands of years...

Well, that is pretty much the stupidest argument by EITHER side in this entire thread... If you are trying to say that anyone that that smokes marijuana automatically goes out and kills people and that there is a connection there then you really have no point in even posting anymore. If you are claiming that people look down on murders because they have been happening for thousands of years also then your are implying that smoking marijuana is as bad as murder in which case I would say that you truly are trying to pull BS arguments out of your ass now.

Mister Sandman wrote:
So would you care to provide your data that proves that 100% of cannabis users are addicted and that cannabis use leads to a 100% addiction??

I dont need to because, lets face it, anything can be addicting, however, if we note the health detriments that cannabis causes. Primary and Secondary experience. That is my source. In addition, you should consult a real doctor if you are unsure of the effects and detriments of cannabis(Marijuana ) (ab)use

So your basically saying that you don't need to provide proof because anything can cause a mental addiction? So if I love eating shell food and have a "mental addiction" then what would happen to me if I decided to quit eating shell food cold turkey? Nothing, same as weed. That is the difference between a physical and mental addiction. Primary and secondary experience is your source? Well maybe you haven't noticed but the majority of the people you are debating with are using first and second hand experience as well, including me. If you plan on visiting a doctor then why not recommend visiting more then one so that you get several different perspectives on the subject because there are plenty of doctors out there that do believe that marijuana has medical health benefits. Should their credibility as a doctor be damaged because of that? Not if there is some evidence to support that there may be and probably are health benefits (which there is).

Mister Sandman wrote:
Would you care to provide your data on the health detriments?? We've (that is the pro crowd) have shown you our data on the benefits but all we hear from the nay crowd is how its going to destroy our lives with no proof other than hearsay.

I already have, in previous posts. Please look back, or just google it for yourself.

So first you claim that you don't need to provide any proof at all because you know the facts, then claim you already have posted sources. I don't think I saw any of your links so if you would be so kind as to post them again we could go into more detail about the sources you've cited.

Mister Sandman wrote:
As for legal issues, well i'm not quite sure what you mean by that? I assume you mean what would happen to prosecutions for those who have been caught dealing or in possesion. Well one assumes that a blanket pardon would be in order, as well as release from custody anyone who had been convited of only cannabis use/dealing/possession. Thats about the only thing that would be needed as governments are protected from prosecution relating to such changes in law that would release people from custody (ie those released couldnt claim for false imprisonment etc)

I you dont understand, than you prove my point excatly. What do you think what would happen if weed was suddenly legalised? A precedent.

Saying that he doesn't understand your argument just proves your point is pretty lame and also makes no point at all. What would happen if weed was suddenly legalized? Well, nobody knows. Not even you, so don't claim too. However with the proper regulation and control it could be very successful. For better or worse look at when the prohibition of alcohol ended.

Mister Sandman wrote:
EDIT: I should point out that you are still confusing mental and phsyical addictions, they are two very different things indeed. Really you ought to learn the difference as only a phsyical addiction can cause your body any harm (and just in case you bring it up, cannabis use only very rarely leads to a phsyical addictionAre you sure, where is your source? {rarer than the risk presented by drugs used by the medical professions} most in fact i'd say probably somewhere to the order of 99.96% at least of those who might be considered addicted are only mentally addicted to the drug)lolz

Both addictions are hard to differentiate.. and thus, i talk of both.

Well, we've provided our "proof", unlike you. Secondly it is not that hard to differentiate the difference between mental addictions and physical addictions. That's like comparing weed to heroin, which I'm sure you've been brought up to believe that both are equally bad or that one directly leads to the other :roll:

Secondly, when speaking about marijuana you can't talk of both. Simply put it's well known that marijuana has no physical addiction. So if by talking of both you are trying to claim that marijuana is addictive both mentally and physically then I'd say your arguments are getting weaker and weaker...

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:00 pm**

^ Im pretty sure alex smokes the Marijuana because he cannot follow what I have said.

1. To the 'people have been killing thousands of years' was a direct comment to the 'people have been getting "High" for thousands of years, i don't think we have SUDDENLY become so civilized we frown upon or look down on getting "High".'

Use logic, people have become more civilised and therefore, murder or killing people, is illegal. QED It was necessary for advancement of society. QED making Marijuana illegal has made society advance. As with such making murder illegal.

"looking down' on getting 'high' is on the same wave length of looking down on getting drunk. and therefore, looking down on uncivilised behaviour. Are you uncivilised when you are out of control of your own body? Yes.

So your basically saying that you don't need to provide proof because anything can cause a mental addiction? So if I love eating shell food and have a "mental addiction" then what would happen to me if I decided to quit eating shell food cold turkey? Nothing, same as weed. That is the difference between a physical and mental addiction.
It is evident that you do not understand human nature, and human behaviour. In addition, you do not read what i say in a objective light. 1. I did not say mental addiction, I said addiction. 2. when you love eat something, or when you think you MUST eat something is different.

Primary and secondary experience is your source? Well maybe you haven't noticed but the majority of the people you are debating with are using first and second hand experience as well, including me.

That is why most of you people, make no rational sense.

If you plan on visiting a doctor then why not recommend visiting more then one so that you get several different perspectives on the subject because there are plenty of doctors out there that do believe that marijuana has medical health benefits. Should their credibility as a doctor be damaged because of that? Not if there is some evidence to support that there may be and probably are health benefits (which there is).Depends what you mean medical health benefits. - however, without a shadow of a doubt there are lots of health detriments.

So first you claim that you don't need to provide any proof at all because you know the facts, then claim you already have posted sources.You misread. Read again. I don't think I saw any of your links so if you would be so kind as to post them again we could go into more detail about the sources you've cited.Dont have time. Google it yourself.

Saying that he doesn't understand your argument just proves your point is pretty lame and also makes no point at all. What would happen if weed was suddenly legalized? Well, nobody knows. Not even you, so don't claim too. However with the proper regulation and control it could be very successful. For better or worse look at when the prohibition of alcohol ended.

It is obvious, you do not understand law and modern law. I can take a good guess, which i gave before, which you plainly ignored.

Well, we've provided our "proof", unlike you. Where?Secondly it is not that hard to differentiate the difference between mental addictions and physical addictions. That's like comparing weed to heroin, which I'm sure you've been brought up to believe that both are equally bad or that one directly leads to the other
But they are equally bad, what is wrose? Murdering someone or committing manslaughter? It can be noted that heroin presents more health detriments than Marijuana. However, Spiritually, and mentally, there is little to no difference. This being, you are out of control of your body and interiorly sinning.

Secondly, when speaking about marijuana you can't talk of both. Simply put it's well known that marijuana has no physical addiction. Talking of experience? With my experiences it shows that it does.So if by talking of both you are trying to claim that marijuana is addictive both mentally and physically then I'd say your arguments are getting weaker and weaker...

Id say you are grasping at straws.

In addition, my question that, I question the motives of smoking weed has not been answered.

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:31 pm**

Sandman I just had to point out a couple things first of all equating marijuana to heroin is about the most foolish and idiotic thing I have ever seen by someone trying to argue against legalizing marijuana. Saying that there is little to no difference mentally between heroin and marijuana....come on are you serious man heroin actually changes your brain chemistry thus being one of the few hard drugs that can actually be considered physically addicting where as soft drugs like marijuana while they may be psychologically addicting they are in fact less addicting than nicotine.

The Second thing I would like to say is that despite the fact I disagree with marijuana use like most things when used in moderation it does not have any more harmful effects than smoking cigarettes and in many cases is in fact less harmful

http://www.tfy.drugsense.org/tfy/addictvn.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 110741.htm

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:53 pm**

I noted the health detriments of heroin. If you are talking the lesser of two evils,Marijuana is. But, they are both evil. Noting that both are evil, and illegal, there is no real difference, except for the fact, Heroin screw you over faster. Marijuana will screw you over time. that is a Proven Fact. Do not give me BS i smoke it and im fine, Im sure as anything you are not fine, because why would you be smoking it in the first place? Because it is cool? Fact:It isnt cool, and people who do it, sooner or later have a crap life. Eg. to escape reality? maybe! therefore you are not fine. Why would a 'normal' person see the sense in using it? Fact: They dont.

All in all, read my post, for my context, Do not assume.

As for your evidence

"Smoking marijuana causes more damage to cells and DNA than smoking tobacco, scientists say. "

http://www.tfy.drugsense.org/tfy/addictvn.htm > just noting the persons agenda , the time of research done, the bias of research..... = void

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:57 pm**

Mister Sandman wrote:I noted the health detriments of heroin. If you are talking the lesser of two evils,Marijuana is. But, they are both evil. Noting that both are evil, and illegal, there is no real difference, except for the fact, Heroin screw you over faster. Marijuana will screw you over time. that is a Proven Fact.

For starters, saying that they are both evil and illegal therefore there is no real difference has to the worst argument in this entire post (we'll see as I get to the rest of the post). Thats like saying that not fully stopping at a stop sign is as bad as rape and murder... It isn't, I don't even know how you could say that they are both equally bad simply because they are illegal. Secondly, there have been studies that show that marijuana use could be detrimental to ones health, there have also been many that state that it has many health benefits...

Mister Sandman wrote:Do not give me BS i smoke it and im fine, Im sure as anything you are not fine, because why would you be smoking it in the first place? Because it is cool? Fact:It isnt cool, and people who do it, sooner or later have a crap life. Eg. to escape reality? maybe! therefore you are not fine. Why would a 'normal' person see the sense in using it? Fact: They dont.

All in all, read my post, for my context, Do not assume.

Ok, seriously... You're sure that marijuana smokers that you've never met aren't fine? I've never met you but I know your a mentally unstable cross dresser. See what I did there? The exact same thing as you, I made up some BS.

Fact: Some people do smoke weed because they "think its cool", is this the majority? No. Anti marijuana campaign adds would lead you to believe otherwise (which clearly worked on you). What makes a marijuana smoker out of the norm? Please, tell me. Can they live perfectly normal lives, contribute to society, do community work, donate to charities, and raise a family and occasionally smoke a little bit of weed and instantly all their good deeds are ignored and they are losers with bad lives and they have troubled souls? I think I'd have to lean towards a no on that one...