Ascended Updates/Suggestions: General Discussion

[Iƒrit]

Personally I think the best way to make deascension faster is...

remove the kiddie gloves, that is get rid of damage cap.

OR

Put a cap on how much LF can be refilled in a turn.

Preventing Deascension should not be handed to you, like it is now, you can have 0's and log in every 7hours and you are undescendable, GET RID OF THE HANDICAPS.

[RedKnight]

I agree with alot of that...considering the %s rule, when accounts just untrain their stats to benefit the turns rule it means that hitting 0 defense you can only get 60% of the dmu, this seems stupid shouldnt no army opposing you mean that you would steal more. I like the idea of the cer only being affected by resource and untrained..but this should only ignore supers, otherwise people could just sit with loads of covert and normal trained, then be able to untrain whenever. It should only consider those that cannot be untrained...say a benefit for them taking up 5 planets.

[Borek]

I agree with alot of that...considering the %s rule, when accounts just untrain their stats to benefit the turns rule it means that hitting 0 defense you can only get 60% of the dmu, this seems stupid shouldnt no army opposing you mean that you would steal more. I like the idea of the cer only being affected by resource and untrained..but this should only ignore supers, otherwise people could just sit with loads of covert and normal trained, then be able to untrain whenever. It should only consider those that cannot be untrained...say a benefit for them taking up 5 planets.

That's true, but remember the CER is worked out on the turn change so you have to have them trained up at the turn change, now yes you can untrain when not around, but your CER suffers a lot and of course any supers/weapons can be hit due to the lack of assassins and/or covert planets.

Currently sabbing is very expensive on turns, maybe the cost should be lowered to 2 AT's to discourage people untraining covert planets?

[renegadze]

Extra considerations or possible alterations

1. Something like PPT may be a necessary thing to add to Ascension just so people can have a real break.
2. Alteration of the regeneration rates or repulsion rates.
3. Limit the number of people who can ‘gang up’ – aka only 2 or 3 can do gang up on the one target thus 20 noobs can’t descend the top person. You do have to have SOME stats to take on someone with some stats.
4. Limit the time they have to hit in – for example they all have to hit in the same 5 mins.
5. Extend out the amount of time between hits – aka make ti take 4 hits to descend someone but have those hits 3 hours apart.

1. I don't believe there should be a PPT in ascended, if you plan to be away for the game for an extended period of time...hit vacation mode.....You already pointed out descending takes a LOT of time, then want to advocate, being being able to jump PPT mid descension - This would drive most of the current active players away from ascended altogether.

Also, after saying it's "impossible" to catch up, you want most of your farms jumping on PPT? watch how much slower catching up is then.

2. can live with that

3. Completely disagree with the whole "ganging" up idea - if by this you mean what you previously proposed about a number of people being able to carry out ascended hits on the same target at the same time. I understand you want every account to be descendable, but it should be as easy to descend top accounts as it is the bottom.

4. See the above.

5. Quite simply...NO. Moving the minimum time for descension to 12 hours is terrible. It means then that every descension pretty much becomes a team effort, and nothing can be done alone. You have to remember 12 hours would mean, the person could not miss a single minute to hit that minimum deadline. 8 hours is fine, allowing for people to slip a little due to having RL stuff to do, it would probably average it out at around 10.


What needs looking at as more of a priority:

1. Undeveloped planets provide - little/no income....so if I don't want to be farmed, why train them? - this needs to be changed...

2. There is absolutely no incentive to have stats - infact if you're a farmer it's quite the opposite!

3. Remove the revolt option - It's useless

4. Make command star useful - or see #3

5. Make sabbing useful - or again see #3

You want to make ascended server "fun" to play, which is admirable....but lets look at the core playing options before we even start to worry about descending people.

[EbilCC]

your post is long tekki so the only thing I will Edit from what i see at the moment is

people CANT refill ALL there LIFEFORCE at once if its going to take so long to decend people and your going to up it to 3 hours per day there are those who do it themselves get alist of whos to be decended and does it alone most of us dont have all day or half a day to decend people it works both ways about crying over not being decended so fast time is the issue you are assuming everyone decending is part of a "good" team/aliance some people actually just decend in small alliances or lone wolf

for those who say get a team to decend give me a break some players like to do it alone its like ME on main ascended kills are 55 is mine and Im proud I havent been helped get any of them some have been short some medium longest was 45 hours ish

[Robe]

It should be possible to descend everyone in the same amount of time

If a player puts effort into building their personal levels then they should be able to reduce their risk of being descended - that is the primary purpose of personal levels.

Based off the votes so far it seems that the majority of people are happy with it taking about 12 hours to descend someone.

The wording of your poll was "'How fast should it be possible to descend someone?" That implied you were asking players to vote on what should be the minimum time in which any player could be descended - not the maximum.

Smaller guys can gang up to attack others – as they can in main.

What you are suggesting is that players who put less effort into their accounts could work together to bring down a player who has put considerable effort into their account.

I disagree that a group of new players in main could take down a top account (even if 5 of them worked together).

This idea smacks of cowardice and would be more fitting of Purgatory.

This is not how you would expect Ascended Beings to behave.

I have no problem with the "ganging up" part

Your solutions are presented to give new players a fair go but they would have the opposite affect unless you were in a huge Empire or Alliance.

Huge Empires would have a distinct advantage because they could deploy superior numbers to gang up on lone wolves and smaller teams, without the tedious inconvenience of having to build ascended accounts.

No thanks - Effort should be rewarded not punished.

[Borek]

Well how about the people posting negative comments actually explain why they are against and offer some improvements/suggestions so we can go forward and actually end up with something positive and workable for Jason to implement.

The goal is to make the server fun and playable for everyone, now obviously there is going to be a bonus for being in an alliance especially if the alliance have a lot of powerful accounts under their control.

Since you are saying you want people to not be penalized for having worked to get a powerful account Robe i cannot see why you would have a problem with an alliance of powerful accounts actually working together to take people down.

Now Tekki's ideas may not all be good, may not be fully fleshed out, but at least she is posting some ideas to move the game forward.

I am trying to do the same. If you think our ideas are garbage then that is not a problem, but please post some reasons and suggestions for improving and changing things rather than just saying they suck.

[Robe]

If you think our ideas are garbage then that is not a problem, but please post some reasons and suggestions for improving and changing things rather than just saying they suck.

Agreed and that is what I did

I just wanted to split my post to avoid it becoming too long to read.
So I had to wait for someone else to post - thanks Borek

To address The Title of the Thread - So what is the problem?

I believe the problem was that players could build defensive levels cheaper than ToC to avoid being descended.
To put it simply, they just didn't need to log in to play.

Over the past 6 months Jason has made 3 minor adjustments (over a period of time) to encourage players to return.

Active players can move life force to prevent being descended.. Inactive players can not.
Active players with decent personal levels will still take at least 24hrs to descend but that is a huge improvement (from not being able to descend them at all).

Activity has been increasing, which is why players are complaining its getting harder to farm.

My 3 ideas to encourage players to work on their accounts are:

1. Raise the old cap of 2b planets for CER to 3b to increase Production - more DMU to farm.

2. Increase the number of turns generated for every player to 15 per turn - more turns to farm.

3. Implement Military Experience so players can measure their performance - make it real.


Feel free to post your thoughts because I wont be offended if you think they suck.
I know we are all keen to stimulate debate

[Iƒrit]

My 3 ideas to encourage players to work on their accounts are:

1. Raise the old cap of 2b planets for CER to 3b to increase Production - more DMU to farm.

2. Increase the number of turns generated for every player to 15 per turn - more turns to farm.

3. Implement Military Experience so players can measure their performance - make it real.


Feel free to post your thoughts because I wont be offended if you think they suck.
I know we are all keen to stimulate debate

SUCK!!!!!!!! lol jk

The 3 ideas with Renegadez's Untrained producing income are fantastic suggestions, Military Experience was suggested about 2 years ago.

[Borek]

My 3 ideas to encourage players to work on their accounts are:

1. Raise the old cap of 2b planets for CER to 3b to increase Production - more DMU to farm.

2. Increase the number of turns generated for every player to 15 per turn - more turns to farm.

3. Implement Military Experience so players can measure their performance - make it real.


Feel free to post your thoughts because I wont be offended if you think they suck.
I know we are all keen to stimulate debate

SUCK!!!!!!!! lol jk

The 3 ideas with Renegadez's Untrained producing income are fantastic suggestions, Military Experience was suggested about 2 years ago.

I am in favour of a CER cap increase, but i think just a linear increase to 3b is actually not the way to go. I would prefer it to be combined with encouragement to train up and maintain stats. Example not counting super-trained military planets towards the cap, possibly adding covert and assassin planets aswell, but perhaps with a 2 hrs requirement before they count so people cannot train them, gain a benefit to CER, then untrain them after the turn change.

15 per turn for all is too much, i would say 15 per turn for any accounts less than 1 year old, 10 for any less than 3 yrs old, 5 per turn after that. Helps the newer players and is still an increase for the majority.

Would love to see Military Experience added.

I still think all personal defense skills need to be tied to the values on an account, not the values an attacker uses. This way the "safe" zone is always moving up, slowly, but means you cannot just stop playing until an update changes things around knowing you are safe.

Biggest change that MUST happen is the stat modifiers based on stat ranks, it is absolutely stupid that people with zero stats to protect their accounts can often only have 60-80% of their DMU farmed because of these dumb modifiers. all values should be fixed, if you spy someone what you see should be what you have to deal with, no b/s mods based on whether or not you untrain/sell up before a turn change.

[Iƒrit]

[spoiler2=]

My 3 ideas to encourage players to work on their accounts are:

1. Raise the old cap of 2b planets for CER to 3b to increase Production - more DMU to farm.

2. Increase the number of turns generated for every player to 15 per turn - more turns to farm.

3. Implement Military Experience so players can measure their performance - make it real.


Feel free to post your thoughts because I wont be offended if you think they suck.
I know we are all keen to stimulate debate

SUCK!!!!!!!! lol jk

The 3 ideas with Renegadez's Untrained producing income are fantastic suggestions, Military Experience was suggested about 2 years ago.

[/spoiler2]

I am in favour of a CER cap increase, but i think just a linear increase to 3b is actually not the way to go. I would prefer it to be combined with encouragement to train up and maintain stats. Example not counting super-trained military planets towards the cap, possibly adding covert and assassin planets aswell, but perhaps with a 2 hrs requirement before they count so people cannot train them, gain a benefit to CER, then untrain them after the turn change.

its not a bad suggestion, I like it but I prefer simpleness. What you suggested works, but it also requires effort. Where as updating the growth cap every so often is a few simple clicks for Jason.

15 per turn for all is too much, i would say 15 per turn for any accounts less than 1 year old, 10 for any less than 3 yrs old, 5 per turn after that. Helps the newer players and is still an increase for the majority.

If you are set up correctly its already at 9 turns and people are complaining its hard to farm...how is downgrading turn production to 5 an increase? please elaborate cause I am lost.

Would love to see Military Experience added.

I still think all personal defense skills need to be tied to the values on an account, not the values an attacker uses. This way the "safe" zone is always moving up, slowly, but means you cannot just stop playing until an update changes things around knowing you are safe.

yea it could work, I would much prefer to remove the damage cap or put a limit on how much Life Force you can manually refill per turn

Biggest change that MUST happen is the stat modifiers based on stat ranks, it is absolutely stupid that people with zero stats to protect their accounts can often only have 60-80% of their DMU farmed because of these dumb modifiers. all values should be fixed, if you spy someone what you see should be what you have to deal with, no b/s mods based on whether or not you untrain/sell up before a turn change.

well I can't argue with that, the rank modifier is useless, as high as growth is there is little need for a bonus based on rank.

[Borek]

Only those who manipulate the ranks get 9 per turn, anyone who builds stats will be getting a lot less than that right now. On top of that you have to have an account over 3 yrs old to get 5 per turn, you already have an advantage by having played for 3+ years, those who get more AT's have younger accounts so this is a carrot for them.

The goal is to get people out of the bad habit of manipulating the system to a: have very little losses b: maximize turns generation

if ascended is to turn into a viable, enjoyable game players need to be rewarded and encouraged to build and maintain stats, not sit around statless only training up for a few minutes to farm or mass to make the most of a flawed game design.

[Iƒrit]

Only those who manipulate the ranks get 9 per turn, anyone who builds stats will be getting a lot less than that right now. On top of that you have to have an account over 3 yrs old to get 5 per turn, you already have an advantage by having played for 3+ years, those who get more AT's have younger accounts so this is a carrot for them.

The goal is to get people out of the bad habit of manipulating the system to a: have very little losses b: maximize turns generation

if ascended is to turn into a viable, enjoyable game players need to be rewarded and encouraged to build and maintain stats, not sit around statless only training up for a few minutes to farm or mass to make the most of a flawed game design.

I agree younger accounts should get something to help them close the gaps, that is all good in my book.
I am not statless far from it, and I am gaining 9 ATs a turn, why would i go higher ranks (or lower, however you perceive it to be) to achieve less turns and loose out on farming potential But yes I see your point if the initial design had been more flaw proof with something like you presented, me and you would not be debating this. After all I am not wanting to loose turn production, lol.
I am game for as you suggested, provided we remain open to tweaking it as needed, if needed.

[Lithium]

make it like main so we die of boredom

[Borek]

make it like main so we die of boredom

The issue is that people are dying of boredom now Lith. Now i take your point that it should not necessarily turn into a clone of main, ascended should still have it's own unique feel to it, but things need to change as the game simply is not working very well right now.

I'd like to see a game where people WANT to log in and play it instead of only logging in to prevent themselves being descended, if they can even be bothered to do that.