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nice post!

when it comes to it - the UK have a small force (but look at the size of our country) - small, yet still powerful, and one of the most respected.

Anybody who doesn't respect the US military might is either lying, blind, or insane.

But if it came to it - and they really wanted to - China could kick seven shades out of anybody.

Sufficient superior numbers will always win out - note the use of the words 'sufficient superior numbers' - because technology and training must also be taken into account.

killtacular wrote:Up untill the Gulf war the united states has never struck first.

Um - so what you're saying is that the North Vietnamese declared war on and attacked the US?

I think I get what you're saying - just don't think it's entirely accurate.

killtacular wrote:Up untill the Gulf war the united states has never struck first.

You could argue that the united states has never struck first on a large scale. Saddam during the Operation Desert Storm was given the option to withdraw or be defeated. As for the current war in Iraq one could argue that we gave Saddam yet another choice and he chose to stay and fight.

Sometimes you have to look at both sides of the argument. And the United States did Invade Canada, but we didn't technically exsist during the revolutionary war.



Thank you Wolf.

People never look at the whole situation when it comes down to talks about this topic. There are just too many factors when it comes down to military strength.



"Um - so what you're saying is that the North Vietnamese declared war on and attacked the US? "

For our defense we originally went to train the South Vietnamese troops to defend themselves. Even though people consider it a War, which it was, the United States never officially declared war.

Please dont forget we went over there as advisors in 1950 . We ended up helping the french and helped trained the repulic army of south vietnam. We tried to fight the north vietamnese but lost the war in the SOUTH when Siagon fell. The conflicts total end was in 1975. when the last troop left. So literally we did not invade Vietnam.

We did not invade the North for a political reason. Warfare is more than just who can smash who. There are economic, social, and political factors as well.

FYI the first US troops were there in 1945. We helped ho chi minh, hell we even saved his life. Most of the past wars/conflicts the United States have fought were against countries/organizations that we once funded and supported.

Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Cong.
We helped the Taliban and people of Afghanistan to defeat the Soviet Union.
We helped Iraq in the war against IRAN
We helped Noriega.

We still have not learned our lesson though. The people we help are the ones we fight, ironic eh?

exactly . Im just saying we did not invade vietnam as wolf359 proclaims there were already insurgent in the south the NFL they called them selves and started the TET offensive in 1968. Yes we were there in 1945 I think it was 1948 more abouts to help the french push back the japanese forces that were there. The indochina war 1 I think thats what is was called.

The French Went to Vietnam to reclaim it. After getting beat pretty badly they wanted to show their power and regain their colony. We did not invade Vietnam due to the political,social, and economic factors. we did not wish to start a new world war. However I do believe we made a brief incursion into NV, I am not certain on that fact though.

killtacular wrote:exactly . Im just saying we did not invade vietnam as wolf359 proclaims there were already insurgent in the south the NFL they called them selves and started the TET offensive in 1968. Yes we were there in 1945 I think it was 1948 more abouts to help the french push back the japanese forces that were there. The indochina war 1 I think thats what is was called.

Please do not put words in my mouth or makes statements about what you think I said.

First Off - Show me the quote where I 'proclaimed that the US invaded north vietnam'........

The point being - The US might not have declared war on the North, as the North probably did not declare war on the US - but the US had the option, as 'advisors' to get out - and probably should have in the eyes of many people, including a lot of Americans. The whole point of my initial Vietnam statement was to quash a previous statement made about the US being able to win any war they want in one day - I'm looking for an answer to where that may have possibly been possible - so I thought I'd try looking at all major conflicts since the Second World War.

Okay, now you're just insulting me Wolf. I have said like fifteen times I have great respect for the British army, but apparently you think I'm being so irresponsible with my accuracy lol.

Quite frankly this was also a nice discussion imo until you decided to insult my countries' military and now me. I used to respect you too, although that is now about gone.

So where to being...

First off, how stupid can you be to think I actually go to protest marches to invade Canada? It was a frickin joke! I was trying to calm tension as this was getting too much. If you have that little respect for my intelligence...well see the beginning of my post.

The reason I "cried foul" was because you insinuated something pretty stupid about our armed forces. There are friendly fire casualties in every war. I'm sure if you weren't so focused on coming up with ways to one-up me in this thread, you would see how many cases of British blunders in every form of fighting. But that's not the point of this discussion. The point is who has the strongest military. Not the best individual soldiers, not one better tank, blah blah blah, but who at the end of the day is stronger. The fact that you blow off most of the points I make and come back with a low jab speaks volumes of your character, not mine.

Third, look...here's a shocking comment coming up so listen close. The US has 7000 nukes. If we wanted to (which OF COURSE we don't) we could destroy the world in one day flat. Too complicated for you Wolf? Now here's another shocking comment...we don't use our nukes or use our deadliest weapons because, like the British, we try to be good guys in the world. We care about what people think of us, but more than that, the US tries to do good when it can. I'd like to see what Europe would have said if during the Cold War, we just pulled back and let you guys all be conquered by the Soviet Union. But the moment our involvement overseas doesn't directly impact saving your people we start hearing this evil america attitude. But again, that's off-topic. Another shocking point, the British could level countries too...this way I'm not being one-sided

And again, you mean China could destroy the world too? Go figure rofl. It's like you guys just copy my posts or other's posts then change like ten words and call me an idiot But to think they would win in a non-nuclear war is again being shortsighted. 2 million troops charging just means more targets for an enemy that's miles away. Remember in the persian gulf war Iraq had the fourth largest military in the world. China can fight to a pointless draw because of their nukes plain and simple. Their jets would get shot out of the sky and their navy crippled pretty quickly. There is a reason the USA spends tons on their military every year.

Oh and finally, you're right Wolf. We want the British on our side when we deal with international situations. One because we respect your military power, two because we respect your political clout in the world. However, to say we couldn't do this without you is once again laughable.

Sorry if I missed something, but I'm still pretty ticked off right now. Can we please now all shut up about this? It's getting pretty stupid if you ask me.

Does Britain have any TOP SECRET places...

Like Area51?

Well I dont believe in any alien cover-ups, but I do believe that the USA has new weapons, and are hiding there nuclear weapons there...

Just a thought to throw out there...

Also, during the coldwar Britain wasnt even considered helpful to the US... Except on for a little while when we sent our nuclear bombers over there to scare Russia...

First of all. WE DONT TALK WIERED! WE TALK PROPERLY!!! Americans talk wiered. I do believe the language is english, not american. That is a fight you cannot and never will win.

Secondly. America do not have the greatest military in the world, Russia do by far, they have since WWII and always will do. America seem to have a difficulty knowing who is on their side, not to mention still seem to love the use of the old WWI attrition tactic against an entire country.

Thirdly. America may have helped UK out in WW2, but you gotta remember how many years we had already held H itler for, and what we actually sacrificed in that war.

Fourthly. We are you and you are us. America is Britons child. Simple as. Daddy always rules.

Fithly. The use of nuclear weapons is prohibited unless a certain amount of casulties have been suffered during a war, and the use of them specifically will bring the direct end to the war. If American EVEN THOUGHT of using a nuke they would have the rest of the world, including UK so far up their asses you would never hear the name USA uttered again cos our foot would be pocking out your gobs. I know it is down to america and russia to actually do something as pathetic and silly to nuke the entire planet just cos they'd lose a war, so yeah, you can have that point.

Finally is the words of Dylan Moran....

"America is just bloody fat! At least those of us fat in europe are partial to anchovies soacked in pigs and sugar. We have character and class! You! Your just fat!"

(that last bit is not meant as a direct insult, nor to be offensive, its from a stand up comedy show, and I admit I have not quoted word for word. So dont go all moaning on me.)

Semper wrote:Secondly. America do not have the greatest military in the world, Russia do by far, they have since WWII and always will do. America seem to have a difficulty knowing who is on their side, not to mention still seem to love the use of the old WWI attrition tactic against an entire country.

WHAT?

Russia? You have to be kidding me...

Russian lost over 20M people in WWII! The US ran over to there side and helped the Russians push the Germans out of Russia...

Here is a link you guys seriously need to read about Russia...

http://whitecrowperspective.blogspot.com/2006/12/why-russia-sucks.html

Also, just because you have a big army doesnt mean you will win... Wipe out the leaders of China and Russia then they would both have a civil war trying to take over there goverments...

Semper wrote:
Secondly. America do not have the greatest military in the world, Russia do by far, they have since WWII and always will do.

sorry i just had to post here.


thanks for the laugh.

First - the discussion was who controls Earth in the game. Then Tok'ra posted saying it was the USA, we all had a laugh, a bit of banter, and then people like Mathlord came in with the 'holier than thou, we're better than you' attitude.

Second - the point in the ensuing military debate was that bigger isn't better, yet this seemed to have escaped the capacity of some people. Th epoint of the discussion was NOT who has the strongest military.

Third - Some OTT people started making wild claims and ill informed comments, which when responded to in a contradicting manner, got upset and started shouting about the place.

Fourth (specifically to Mathlord) - Don't say things you don't mean in a discussion that has obviously got heated - there's no magic indicator that says you were being sarcastic or joking. And this topic did not go downhill until you entered it!

Fifth - I insinuated something regarding the US Armed Forces? No I didn't - I specifically called you out on a claim you made, and have yet to satisfy me with a satisfactory response. Yeah, yeah, yadder, yadder, nuclear weapons - any country in the world with nukes could 'settle a war in one day' if they wanted to - but then it wouldn't actually be a war would it? Low jabs? No - as I said - simply calling out on the claims being made.

Sixth - Do not put words in my mouth Mathlord! I never said that the US couldn't do things without the UK - I said that they wouldn't dare! BIG DIFFERENCE!

Seventh - Hmm, the UK soesn't have any Secret facilities? LMAO. Okay, whatever you say - but perhaps it is more to do with the fact that the UK can keep things secret?

Eighth - The UK didn't help in the Cold War? Hmm, I think you'll find that the UK were chiefly responsible for patrolling the Northern most part of the North Atlantic Ocean, The Norwegian Sea, and The Mediterranean during the Cold War to detect and deter Soviet subs.

Ninth - New weapons - to think the US is the only country sitting on weapon developments is somewhat naive don't you think? And hasn't history shown the UK to be at the forefront of weapons development?

Ninth - The US do not have the most sophisticated weaponry/technology. Weaponry used by the US forces is directly comparable to those used by the UK, French, Israel, and any other significant power. And, as already stated, the UK have the most advanced naval platforms, both above and below the service, although they do not come into service until 2008.

Tenth - and the award for the most stupid comment in the entire thread: "The British want Ireland"! LMAO! What an ignorant comment - so ignorant in fact that I'm not even going to dignify it with a response!

Eleventh - Friendly fire - the reason I brought it up was to point out that for all of those claiming for US superiority in technology and what not in this thread, it seems that at least every few months their is a friendly fire incident involving the US shooting up UK troops. And we're not talking about people getting confused on a heated battlefield here, we're talking convoys and/or units being hit when nobody else is around. Now I'm sorry if you don't like me bringing it up - but it is fact - and I made the statement for a reason. We all know that friendly fire incidents DO happen and that some of them could be avoidable - but some of the ones in recent history have been complete whoppers - made worse by the fact that the US refuse or delay the releasing of information for any inquest.

Twelfth - when did the US 'kick the UK's ass twice'? One is the war of independence - but the other? And let's not talk about history please - nobody has successfully invaded the UK since 1066, and this tiny, insignificant country went on to create the largest empire the world has ever seen - not without a stain upon it's character, granted, but the largest nonetheless. The point being that anybody who claims that the British do not know how to fight (or play in the political arena for that matter) obviously needs to check up on a few things.

Thirteenth - Second World War - Britain would have lost the war in less than a year? Complete rubbish - The war had already been going for well over 2 years before the US declared war (although they had been sending supplies) - and even then they only declared war on Japan - it was Germany who decalred war on the US. You'll be telling me next that the US won the Battle of Britain!

Fourteenth - nobody has said that the UK can kick the USA's ass - so again - stop putting words in our mouths - but I would put a single UK unit up against a single US unit anytime!

Fifteenth - some of you have really shown yourselves in a new (unbecoming) light in this thread - and made yourselves look rather silly in the process.

As I have said before - I have nothing but the greatest respect for US forces, having fought alongside them - it is the people who make the ill-informed 'we're the best at everything' and 'we rule the world' claims that I have little time for.

That will now be my final comment in this thread - although I am more than happy to continue the debate via pm with any one one of you.

PullinForChrist wrote:Does Britain have any TOP SECRET places...

Like Area51?

You don't know about it because as is repeated over and over again, we are better at everything.

Now for all you people that go on about how America saved our asses etc etc, "America" didn't get involved until they were brought into the war, not by us, yes some Americans had come over to help before America got involved. Britain chose to enter the war, America was forced into it. Very selfless of you to come and save us and go on and on about it for years.

Oh and as has been said many many times before, Omega Rules the World...