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Gatedialer wrote:Ron Paul might be a good president when the nation is at peace with no open threats.

Until then, getting rid of the CIA, FBI, and every other intelligence agency will only bring about chaos in the world as terrorists are able to get a one up.

Agreed. At the moment, we need someone who can steer us through the currents of this war, not jump into the nearest lifeboat.

On the contrary that's exactly what we need, things have gotten worse for Americans since your 'War on Terror'. We aren't any safer, with even less security on our boarders, anyone who says otherwhise is completely misinformed.

Now, Phoenix, I read both articles in their entirety.

Ron Paul is a strong believer in a non-intervention foreign policy. He is against amnisty for illegal aliens and makes every decision based on the constitution.

He is even against what many consider the standard for 'free-trade'. Even though it's just profiting special interest parties and not really free at all.

As for John McCain, I didn't even get done reading the introduction before it confirmed my original statements. McCain is pro-amnisty and pro-troop surge.

But for the sake of arguement I read on.

I'll be posting my take on McCain's history in the McCain topic.
Please Phoenix don't even try to defend McCain here.

I don't understand at all why he wants to disband CIA FBI (NSA too I believe???)...
Quite strange imho..and unwise!!

I will not be posting pro-McCain here anymore.

Apophis The Great wrote:I don't understand at all why he wants to disband CIA FBI (NSA too I believe???)...
Quite strange imho..and unwise!!

From what I understand.. his ideal life would consist of sitting in his house with the door locked a do-not-disturb sign on the door.. his home-schooled children and wife behind him and a shotgun on his lap. Thats why he has no need for the CIA/FBI/nor the dept of Education for that matter. Anyway.. I'll be voting for someone else.. good luck with the campaign Nicholai Brocov.

Thanks Manetheren, glad to see you know where Ron Paul stands though.

Manetheren wrote:

Apophis The Great wrote:I don't understand at all why he wants to disband CIA FBI (NSA too I believe???)...
Quite strange imho..and unwise!!

From what I understand.. his ideal life would consist of sitting in his house with the door locked a do-not-disturb sign on the door.. his home-schooled children and wife behind him and a shotgun on his lap. Thats why he has no need for the CIA/FBI/nor the dept of Education for that matter. Anyway.. I'll be voting for someone else.. good luck with the campaign Nicholai Brocov.

Meh I prefer the FBI CIA NSA agencies being in position instead of such thing...order must be done by governement (hoping he does his job properly and correctly...) not people otherwise chaos and anarchy would rise quickly!

Apophis The Great wrote:Meh I prefer the FBI CIA NSA agencies being in position instead of such thing...order must be done by governement (hoping he does his job properly and correctly...) not people otherwise chaos and anarchy would rise quickly!

What scares me is your not even American Jim and you seem to think you are as dependent on those agencies as Americans do. The truth is, the FBI, CIA and NSA don't make there efforts known to the public. How in the hell can you sit there and rationalize the existence of agencies that you assume are keeping you safe everyday. When they are not transparent and you have no idea what they are actually doing.

You can't defend the existence of something you know nothing about. An to prove it, I'll ask three questions.

What does the FBI do for you everyday that makes you fear it's non-existence?

What does the CIA do for you everyday that makes you fear it's non-existence?

What does the NSA do for you everyday that makes you fear it's non-existence?

If you can give me certifiable and irrefutable evidence of why we need those agencies, I'll except your arguments against Ron Paul and count them as being relevant. Until then I'd appreciate it if you'd all stop patting each other's backs for having no real reasons for sharing the same opinion, other than, you 'feel' better knowing they are around.

I want to expose those who care to this video.
It's on my Myspace profile, so that's how much I enjoy it.

afaik all that agencies cost money. and that's what they do.

Well the FBI runs major criminal investigations in the US and dismantling it would severely disrupt our ability to combat crime. You need to have a centralized agency that isn't just focused on their one section of the country to coordinate nation-wide searches as well as look at the big picture of the problems facing the entire nation.

The CIA and the NSA serve a purpose that you would expect they would serve. Both, in their own form deal with different types of foreign intelligence gathering and whether you like it or not, they are vital to preventing further attacks on the US. Remember how many attacks on the US or abroad have been prevented by our intelligence or British intelligence or similar with other allies.

Now, of course there is waste in this system and the agencies don't always work well together (understatement I know), but the solution isn't to dismantle them (it's also not to add more agencies either). It's to work inside the agencies and make them more efficient. This is alot harder, but unfortunately the easier solutions are never really the best.

Plus then where would us Americans get our acronym fix? And don't you dare say DARPA.

Nicholai Brocov wrote:

Apophis The Great wrote:Meh I prefer the FBI CIA NSA agencies being in position instead of such thing...order must be done by governement (hoping he does his job properly and correctly...) not people otherwise chaos and anarchy would rise quickly!

What scares me is your not even American Jim and you seem to think you are as dependent on those agencies as Americans do. The truth is, the FBI, CIA and NSA don't make there efforts known to the public. How in the hell can you sit there and rationalize the existence of agencies that you assume are keeping you safe everyday. When they are not transparent and you have no idea what they are actually doing.

You can't defend the existence of something you know nothing about. An to prove it, I'll ask three questions.

What does the FBI do for you everyday that makes you fear it's non-existence?

What does the CIA do for you everyday that makes you fear it's non-existence?

What does the NSA do for you everyday that makes you fear it's non-existence?

If you can give me certifiable and irrefutable evidence of why we need those agencies, I'll except your arguments against Ron Paul and count them as being relevant. Until then I'd appreciate it if you'd all stop patting each other's backs for having no real reasons for sharing the same opinion, other than, you 'feel' better knowing they are around.

That's maybe the difference between me and many people, I actually care if something could cause chaos in other country than mine, even if CIA FBI and NSA disappearance would affect me in no way...just that I don't hate the US so don't want to see it falling in a jungle law world where everyone dictates its own law, as if not any agency is there to keep things maintained, chaos will happen, as everyone will think "I can do what I want, noone will stop me, let's go and get some!". Mafias will takeover, as paramilitarian extremist organisations. I however know these agencies have many wrong elements in them, corrupted people only wishing to realize their plans even if it would cause many deathes around to make it done. But that's not majority, and even if it was, things without them would be even worse (that says all)! If the country organisations are not here to maintain order, who'll do it? People themselves? Fear of your neighboor, paranoia, massive robbing and all things coming slowly but surely with it. And who knows, it could affect europeans and other continents, if all agencies disappear, some ultranationalist paramilitarian organisation could take over US and start doing crap to the world after doing crap to US?
Don't think all agencies are full of evil dudes and citizens superkind and all happy and sympathic people wishing to live in harmony...
Sure they agencies need some "cleanings" in their rank to get rid of all corrupted and bad intentionned people, but they need to stay, as need to stay their equivalents in other countries of the world!

Without secret services and other agencies, you would be majorly screwed, I got to agree with Mathlord on roles they do.

Imagine what world would be if all countries' agencies ended to exist...nothing you'd wish to see!

Please, the US is considerably safer today then pre-9/11.

Consider the fact that there were terrorist attacks that killed Americans on American soil at least every 3 years during the Clinton years.

In the last 7 years, there has been 0 since 9-11.

If anything, the considerable dusting of the CIA, NSA, FBI and others have prevented this. Removing them would only put us back in a "What went wrong?" mode when an attack happens, which if there is no defense, WILL.

I believe Mathlord is the only one that gave substancial reason for feeling the way he does. So I'll say anything said before and after his post about U.S. agencies is mear redereck.

im australian so im obviously not voting in this election.

however, those who say this thread is not about the war, i agree, but it most definitely is an important area to consider.

no matter if you beleive whether the war in iraq is the right thing or not, you cannot ignore the fact that it exists no matter who gets voted into the oval office. on this path, any logical answer to the situation is a stabilisation of the population in iraq, thus the troops must stay there. If we would pull out now, the problems left behind would cause long term problems.

I dont know whether I support the war or not. and I dont know whether or not bringing a democracy to another culture like this is right either. however i do know that the job MUST BE FINISHED for the long term.

as such I could never vote for a candidate who wishes to withdraw ASAP from Iraq, unless ASAP is defined clearly as 'After no military presence is required.' the simple truth, whether we like it or not, weve started something we must finish.