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wikipedia is not a creditable source.

You should know better then that Psi. The SW films and KOTOR games (and of course the new STHU) are the only real canon that can be used, as stated by George himself. Everything else is just fan base opinion.

So no, I stand by my statement.

(and before you try and get me with it. Han says imperial star ships, he does not state what class and model.)

As for ST ships and their maneuverability opposed to those of SW, then we cannot know as the battle scenes in star trek are more high speed fighter like based. In star Wars this is not needed, but that does not mean it is not possible. I would reference ESB, the old "Take evasive action!" Scene, where a Star Destroyer quite quickly alters course to avoid a collision.

and as for being off topic. OH well...we had to get star wars in here somewhere, afterall it is the big bad daddy of sci-fi like LOTR is for fantasy.

Back ON topic though.

I noticed as well in my delving that a lot of 'the first ones' are actually STILL alive (potentially) meaning Loriens race, whomever they were could also potentially be out there as well as a ton of other mean nasties. Considering this new knowledge it does throw the tilt in B5's favour further more.

As I am sure the ancients in SG could manage a weapon capable of crippling the borg forever, I am quite confident one of the aforementioned would also be able to do so.

Semper wrote:wikipedia is not a creditable source.

You should know better then that Psi. The SW films and KOTOR games (and of course the new STHU) are the only real canon that can be used, as stated by George himself. Everything else is just fan base opinion.

So no, I stand by my statement.

(and before you try and get me with it. Han says imperial star ships, he does not state what class and model.)

As for ST ships and their maneuverability opposed to those of SW, then we cannot know as the battle scenes in star trek are more high speed fighter like based. In star Wars this is not needed, but that does not mean it is not possible. I would reference ESB, the old "Take evasive action!" Scene, where a Star Destroyer quite quickly alters course to avoid a collision.

so you don't have any sources so you discredit my own? when they have actual Canon sources? i at least provided direct proof of my claims.

and no, the EU CAN be used because it is considered Canon by Lucas.

then then you're discrediting the same canon you claim to support by saying "it was never shown, so we don't know" good job...

as you so kindly pointed out, we often see the manuavering abilities of the Star Trek ships, but ISD's and other SW ships aren't shown, being able to maneuver like that. the best claim to the maneuvering abilities of SW ships, is Episode 6, when the amassed rebel fleet had to break off in order to not collide with the DS2 shield. they did not, and could not make the maneuvers that the ST ships do. another proof, is the fact that several ISD's were damaged in the Hoth Asteroid field by being unable to dodge, or destroy the asteroids that would hit them, when ST ships are able to maneuver fairly well in Asteroid fields(Insurrection, DS9) the only "proofs" you've disproven, are the SW proofs, not the ST proofs.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

I didnt really want to bring all the first ones into it, As B5 would just anialiate everything, which i why i merely suggested the main races...although witht the vorlons being the youngest of the first ones...it doesnt help much.

Can i just point out, whomever said transportors would wreak havoc in the b5 universe is mildly mistaken, Perhaps on on old Earth alliance destroyers...And a few Narn Ships, but the Ranger ships, The Victory Class, and most of the advanced ships use a kind of Stealth tech which means they dont show up on scanners, How does one beam aboard a ship it cannot see? Even if you could match up your visual knowledge of its weareabouts to your transporters....You would probally still transport into a Bulkhead...

Psi Kiya Trist wrote:

Semper wrote:wikipedia is not a creditable source.

You should know better then that Psi. The SW films and KOTOR games (and of course the new STHU) are the only real canon that can be used, as stated by George himself. Everything else is just fan base opinion.

So no, I stand by my statement.

(and before you try and get me with it. Han says imperial star ships, he does not state what class and model.)

As for ST ships and their maneuverability opposed to those of SW, then we cannot know as the battle scenes in star trek are more high speed fighter like based. In star Wars this is not needed, but that does not mean it is not possible. I would reference ESB, the old "Take evasive action!" Scene, where a Star Destroyer quite quickly alters course to avoid a collision.

so you don't have any sources so you discredit my own? when they have actual Canon sources? i at least provided direct proof of my claims.

and no, the EU CAN be used because it is considered Canon by Lucas.

then then you're discrediting the same canon you claim to support by saying "it was never shown, so we don't know" good job...

as you so kindly pointed out, we often see the manuavering abilities of the Star Trek ships, but ISD's and other SW ships aren't shown, being able to maneuver like that. the best claim to the maneuvering abilities of SW ships, is Episode 6, when the amassed rebel fleet had to break off in order to not collide with the DS2 shield. they did not, and could not make the maneuvers that the ST ships do. another proof, is the fact that several ISD's were damaged in the Hoth Asteroid field by being unable to dodge, or destroy the asteroids that would hit them, when ST ships are able to maneuver fairly well in Asteroid fields(Insurrection, DS9) the only "proofs" you've disproven, are the SW proofs, not the ST proofs.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

I make no claims, and need to name no sources, but if you want. I believe the first source as towards the speed of the star destroyers can be foudn scattered throughout Episode IV and V.

And as for what is, and what is NOT Canon, I can (With a lot of time and effort rumaging through many magazines) get a direct quote from Lucas himself saying that only the movies, KOTOR games and STHU are Canon from February this year if memory serves, because the main tale is meant to be Darth Vaders Story and as soon as he dies, Lucas had never wanted to really expand it etc etc.

I am not discrediting the movies at all, you as misinterpreting my words if you believe such a thing! I have made no claims that are not supported by the SW movies.

And not at all, I did not intend to disproof any of the ST facts that claim their abilities, I merely stated that you cannot say SW ships are less because you have no contrary evidence. The ST in DS9 may well have been a great deal smaller, and I suspect that is the case when it came to going through an asteroid field. I would VERY MUCH love to see the Voyager, Enterprise or any other sizable ST ship go through an asteroid field unscathed, because if they did I would claim total rubbish and ST would greatly fall in my credibility to a point far lower than it already is.

As for the rebel ships breaking off the attack, the fighters turn round VERY quickly, and the heavier ships turn round in plenty of time to face the star destroyers mere seconds later.

I can make a presumption here, that the imperials would not be such an overpowering force within the galaxy if Star Destroyers were just speedy behemoths. Then again they can unleash many hundreds of fighters etc etc. (BTW PSI! <------ THIS, yes, this last sentence, is the nearest I have come to refuting my own facts or sources, ok pumpkin?)

lol...Psi, you write in a very clever manner, but it appears you hardly understand what you use, or what you read, claims of disproval of my own facts when there are none! I have to say that is the closest anyone has ever come to ticking me off a little bit. Close..but not there.

Back on topic!

Could the ST universe just not go for the old SG tactic and star beaming torpedoes and all that nonsense onto B5 ships? We do not know the level of cloaking ability the B5 ships have, they may release some sort of radiation or something a kin the trekkies can pick up on.

This could well be the case semper, But it would have to be done exceptionally quick, and as we know, ST ships have to scan and figure out where to put stuff and this all takes time, and you have to be in range to transport...By then a Whitestars Main Cannon Would have ripped your saucer section in half and it would be blasting away at your escape pods... (B5 shows no mercy!)

Here will be a good Battle, Babylon 5 itself Vs DS9! I think that individual battle would probally be a massive stalemate, whereby both stations are abondoned...B5 has full fighter compliments, but i think its size and lack of sheilds would make it vulnerable...DS9 isnt as heavily armoured as B5, but it is still a beast!

Oh, I have realised anouther point of Babylon defences i forgot...Many of the Larger ships and stations have Point defence Systems, which shoot down things, Such as missiles...being shot at them...Doesnt get them ALL but they tend to tak out about 80% of anything being shot at them, These probally wouldnt work against phasers...But would definatly eliminated the torpeado option.

I will look into the Stealth tech of B5 And what effect that would have on ST sensors...It's not going to be easy compareing 2 imagineinary Technologies from 2 completely non related things...

I didnt add SW for a reason...it not only divides everyone! But mainly because there is so much writtain and so many people claiming some things are cannon and some are not, that you really just end up not knowing what is what...

well if B5 get the vorlon, Trek would get Q. End of the battle right there.

APADAMEK! wrote:well if B5 get the vorlon, Trek would get Q. End of the battle right there.

SORRY, it was Q's Idea, check the start of the thread, n00b!

Although if you want to get Q involved, Hypothetically, B5 have an uber guy who became part of the very fabric of the universe,(After some insane psi Corps Skillz) As Q is not yet part of the universe, but a massively uber being, he could be remeoved...quite easily...

A note on the B5 Front , Telepaths! P12s-to P15's and The Uber genetically enhanced ones can read your thoughts from several hundread miles away, some are even capable of killing you qwth a thought... B5 Telepaths would absolutely decimate the leadership and Plans of ST....

And anouther point, technomages, Are fiendishly evil, and can amoung other things, make beings believe they are seeing something they are not, A useful diversion...no?

A note on the white Star : Given it's ability to harness complex gravimetric fields for propulsion thereby making it very fast and maneuverable, Minbari stealth technology and the capability to repair itself as a living organism, the White Star is a formidable opponent even without a discussion on weaponry. Add a mixture of Minbari / Vorlon weaponry and the fight hardly seems fair - it would be a rout. Give there is about 130-150 of these ... They are, To put it quite Fairly, A little bigger than a defiant, and have about the same kind of power as a borg cube...

Deep Space 9 vs. Babylon 5, the Defiant vs. the White Star, Sisko vs. Sheridan, Klingons vs. Narn. Indeed there is a lot to consider...

Ive Just had a brilliant thought.... =P =P

As the Battle rages accross the universe....2 Gargantuans of there time fight an epic battle...

Londo Mollari Vs Morn? Both Lurk around bars and casinos Causeing Chaos.

Morn!

Mollari!

Although, Just like anyone who liked DS9, Adores Morn like no other humply Creature, Mollari is played by peter Jurasik, And he is the coolest man on the planet!

Lois Lane wrote:I wonder who will be the first to call on Cthulhu.

I'a I'a Cthulhu Fhtagn...

The Great Old Ones & the Deep ones > all.

(<3)

http://www.merzo.net/

Kinda neat.

star trek has some weirdpowerful folk aswel. seen TNG episode called survivors. 1 dude wipes out 50billion aliens (their entire race) just by thinking it. methinks the vorlons would bet pwnd by that.

theres also the race in star trek who give one of the enterprise crew members a massive boost to his IQ. said crew member then works some tech magic allowing the enterprise to travel a distance usually impossible if using warp. if that race can do that by using a human, think what they could do on their own. star trek has enough ancient and advanced races to easily counter the ancient ones of B5.

but the deciding factor would be the ferengi. how can the B5 people fight if the ferengi win, steal or buy all their stuff

starwars would fail in a fight. do their ships even have targeting systems? it seems they just randomly fire giant lasers at things. and they need a massive death star to take out a planet. i think the power to size ratio of starwars would put them at a disadvantage.

Semper wrote:

Psi Kiya Trist wrote:

Semper wrote:wikipedia is not a creditable source.

You should know better then that Psi. The SW films and KOTOR games (and of course the new STHU) are the only real canon that can be used, as stated by George himself. Everything else is just fan base opinion.

So no, I stand by my statement.

(and before you try and get me with it. Han says imperial star ships, he does not state what class and model.)

As for ST ships and their maneuverability opposed to those of SW, then we cannot know as the battle scenes in star trek are more high speed fighter like based. In star Wars this is not needed, but that does not mean it is not possible. I would reference ESB, the old "Take evasive action!" Scene, where a Star Destroyer quite quickly alters course to avoid a collision.

so you don't have any sources so you discredit my own? when they have actual Canon sources? i at least provided direct proof of my claims.

and no, the EU CAN be used because it is considered Canon by Lucas.

then then you're discrediting the same canon you claim to support by saying "it was never shown, so we don't know" good job...

as you so kindly pointed out, we often see the manuavering abilities of the Star Trek ships, but ISD's and other SW ships aren't shown, being able to maneuver like that. the best claim to the maneuvering abilities of SW ships, is Episode 6, when the amassed rebel fleet had to break off in order to not collide with the DS2 shield. they did not, and could not make the maneuvers that the ST ships do. another proof, is the fact that several ISD's were damaged in the Hoth Asteroid field by being unable to dodge, or destroy the asteroids that would hit them, when ST ships are able to maneuver fairly well in Asteroid fields(Insurrection, DS9) the only "proofs" you've disproven, are the SW proofs, not the ST proofs.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

I make no claims, and need to name no sources, but if you want. I believe the first source as towards the speed of the star destroyers can be foudn scattered throughout Episode IV and V.

And as for what is, and what is NOT Canon, I can (With a lot of time and effort rumaging through many magazines) get a direct quote from Lucas himself saying that only the movies, KOTOR games and STHU are Canon from February this year if memory serves, because the main tale is meant to be Darth Vaders Story and as soon as he dies, Lucas had never wanted to really expand it etc etc.

I am not discrediting the movies at all, you as misinterpreting my words if you believe such a thing! I have made no claims that are not supported by the SW movies.

And not at all, I did not intend to disproof any of the ST facts that claim their abilities, I merely stated that you cannot say SW ships are less because you have no contrary evidence. The ST in DS9 may well have been a great deal smaller, and I suspect that is the case when it came to going through an asteroid field. I would VERY MUCH love to see the Voyager, Enterprise or any other sizable ST ship go through an asteroid field unscathed, because if they did I would claim total rubbish and ST would greatly fall in my credibility to a point far lower than it already is.

As for the rebel ships breaking off the attack, the fighters turn round VERY quickly, and the heavier ships turn round in plenty of time to face the star destroyers mere seconds later.

I can make a presumption here, that the imperials would not be such an overpowering force within the galaxy if Star Destroyers were just speedy behemoths. Then again they can unleash many hundreds of fighters etc etc. (BTW PSI! <------ THIS, yes, this last sentence, is the nearest I have come to refuting my own facts or sources, ok pumpkin?)

lol...Psi, you write in a very clever manner, but it appears you hardly understand what you use, or what you read, claims of disproval of my own facts when there are none! I have to say that is the closest anyone has ever come to ticking me off a little bit. Close..but not there.

Back on topic!

Could the ST universe just not go for the old SG tactic and star beaming torpedoes and all that nonsense onto B5 ships? We do not know the level of cloaking ability the B5 ships have, they may release some sort of radiation or something a kin the trekkies can pick up on.

one correction: there's not hundreds of starfighters on each ISD.

The Imperial-class Star Destroyer bristles with 60 turbolaser batteries, 60 ion cannon batteries, and 10 tractor beam projectors. It carries a full stormtrooper division, 20 AT-ATs, 30 AT-STs, eight Lambda-class shuttles, 12 landing barges, and six TIE squadrons.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/starsh ... index.html

THE OFFICIAL SW page. thank you, good night.

edit: i decided on a second statement: Proof? Evidence?

Right now I wish I was a bigger Babylon 5 fan.

Nicholai Brocov wrote:Right now I wish I was a bigger Babylon 5 fan.

Honestly mate i recommend you watch it, it is awsome

But yeah, vorlons, shadows and other ancient races put togther honestly win, and good point on buck with the psi corp and the dude who became one with the universe. Although one must thing that vorlons created psi people and would obviously have far superior powers themselves.

Btw who remembers the fight between Kosh and the shadows as wells as Kosh no. 2 vs. sheriden? epic powers away! oh oh oh!!!! and dont forget tacheon traps! *time rift thingys*

Semper wrote:You should know better then that Psi. The SW films and KOTOR games (and of course the new STHU) are the only real canon that can be used, as stated by George himself. Everything else is just fan base opinion.

this is false.

I really wouldn't take too much stock into the difference between G-level and C-level because the lines between the two are so blurred.

http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... &start=120

Purple - VIP - these are people that are in some way officially connected to the Star Wars universe
http://forums.starwars.com/faq.jsp

I at least can provide proof for my arguments, whereas you have provided none.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

buck wrote:

APADAMEK! wrote:well if B5 get the vorlon, Trek would get Q. End of the battle right there.

SORRY, it was Q's Idea, check the start of the thread, n00b!

Although if you want to get Q involved, Hypothetically, B5 have an uber guy who became part of the very fabric of the universe,(After some insane psi Corps Skillz) As Q is not yet part of the universe, but a massively uber being, he could be remeoved...quite easily...

A note on the B5 Front , Telepaths! P12s-to P15's and The Uber genetically enhanced ones can read your thoughts from several hundread miles away, some are even capable of killing you qwth a thought... B5 Telepaths would absolutely decimate the leadership and Plans of ST....

And anouther point, technomages, Are fiendishly evil, and can amoung other things, make beings believe they are seeing something they are not, A useful diversion...no?

A note on the white Star : Given it's ability to harness complex gravimetric fields for propulsion thereby making it very fast and maneuverable, Minbari stealth technology and the capability to repair itself as a living organism, the White Star is a formidable opponent even without a discussion on weaponry. Add a mixture of Minbari / Vorlon weaponry and the fight hardly seems fair - it would be a rout. Give there is about 130-150 of these ... They are, To put it quite Fairly, A little bigger than a defiant, and have about the same kind of power as a borg cube...

There are many Q, all by the name Q, n00b.
Q are not part of the universe, they exist in an entirely different dimension then ours, therefore in an entirely different universe.

how about Species 8472 who could destroy planets just as easily as the Shadows or Vorlon. Let's also get into fleet sizes, the dominion war had thousands of ships fighting each other I haven't seen a B5 battle with more then one hundred.

Also transporters are not just for transporting people, imagine if your B5 fleet was flying along when suddenly thousands of mines were just suddenly beamed among then , completely at random, uncaring as too where in the fleet they appeared, recipe for disaster me thinks.

And the Breen energy dampening weapons is certainly nothing to be trifled with.

Zathras ... And the great machine.