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TheWay wrote:If you want to be honest about this you are discussing the wrong words and issues. If we are to honestly address the declining place and value of debate we must ask tough questions and deal with difficult words.

1. Pluralism VS Tolerance- this is a fun issue, hot one also

2. Political Correctness VS Honest Debate- Why can’t we talk about things that seem wrong and question things that may be taboo, and I don’t just mean the normal morally enept position of let’s talk about porn I mean real issues. Those of you who know understand what I am saying.

3. Modernity Vs Post Modernity

4. Absolute Truth VS Relativism - matter a fact each one of these words could be a discussion in and of themselves let alone as a comparison.

5. Inclusivity vs Exclusivity- this presents all kinds of emotional land minds lol

6. Personal Experience VS Fact or Knowledge from within VS knowledge gained from outside sources

7. The definition of knowing and what the parameters of knowledge are.

I am sure there are bunches more but I think I caught the major culprits that are attempting to squash open and honest debate.

In all honesty though I would be afraid to debate most of these because most people are not able to look past rhetoric and actually have an honest and real thought. People simply spout off what they are told and most of it is post modern politically correct nonsense




@Oculus Sinister's definition of the word
Natural
As it would be without human intervention of any kind, except the act of human procreation. (Please note: This exemption is required to prevent humans being wholly unnatural themselves.

Your definition is a bandwagon fallacy to be specific it is argumentum ad populum

You make a perfectly decent definition for the word in question and then completely deny the definition in the very next statement possibly for the purpose of supporting a world view, possibly the idea that homosexuality is not unnatural. Let me be clear it is possible I misunderstood your previous statement as it wasn’t completely clear and I am not making an argument for or against homosexuality (although if that where the topic I would be more than happy to discuss it). This type of illogical argument if I understood you correctly is what is ruining the system of debate we have had in place for so long it is post modernism at its worst. If I haven’t understood you correctly I apologize profusely and ask that my post be taken in the context of the real case where this type of behavior is used in word usage.

Just for [KMA]Avenger, I will make this simple if the definition of natural is; Conforming with nature: in accordance with the usual course of nature

Then you would have to conclude that Homosexuality is not natural

This by the way is why this discussion is important to debate because as the definition of a word changes so does the implications of the argument and the validity of ones reasoning; I hope that was fairly simple.

Also I do understand your point though Avenger much of this can seem trivial and indeed it is, but so goes the forum of honest debate.

P.S. if anyone thinks this is bad imagine arguing with Plato about the Theory of forms, if you aren’t familiar I dare you to look it up it’s very hilarious.

Natural- The idea that something is as it was made to be. Ex. Organic Food
Ideals- values that one holds and acts on when prompted
Rights- Freedoms granted to a person by a higher power then themselves. Ex Rights of a U.S. citizen granted by government but through way of a biblical principle that is reflected in our constitution.
Family- a unit of structure based on principles of culture or religion.
Equality- Is the ability for all to share the same basic freedoms. Ex the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness
Marriage- The bond between a man and a women that expresses commitment and love till death do them part. This of course is a issue of world view rather than definition as the legal definition in some places is different
Tolerance – the ability for people to old opposing views and yet still respect each other, while at the same time believing the other to be completely wrong.
Freedom- The ability to be free in a limited sense. No one is able to be completely free because no matter what we are all slaves to our basic needs. This is why the constitution does not dictate freedom alone but it details certain freedoms that man is entitled to based off of certain ideals and principles.