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Re: Abortion
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:26 pm
by Cole
Corran Horn wrote:one more thing:
LegendaryApophis wrote: .... for something that cannot yet be compared to a true human?
what makes you sure that, for instance, you are a true human? were you true human, lets say, 10 yeras ago? i can find a reference point that would classify you 10 years agoi as "not true human yet" thus making killing you perfectly legal.
*powers up his time machine*
I'm the one "acting bad" and you are the one talking of killing me? Hypocrit much, aren't we, eh?
I guess the 20 years or so of prison for killing a child would counterstrike a LITTLE your reference hehe.
If we use middle age references people are "true humans" after being 4 or 5 years old (see how much they cared of babies in those days). So now if we are going to say that -8 monthes not yet being human, is terrible, aren't we a bit...excessive compared to what past stated?
Those babies were abandoned and had little chances to survive. THAT, was horrible thing.
Re: Abortion
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:30 am
by Fear Of The Duck
this is all classic popsism (have i just invented the term?):
1. write sentences that reveal their incoherence under logical scrutiny
2. when someone points the holes out to ya call it "a fail", say the person doesn't understand your point, takes things out of context, say that what you've written means something else.
3. completely miss the point of other ppl's posts.
it looks to me that "a fail" is your teachers. they failed at teaching you how to transfer your thoughts on paper (or message board) and draw logical conclusions from written sentences. if i were you i'd changed my school asap.
Re: Abortion
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:56 am
by Cole
Corran Horn wrote:blahblah
boo, boring!
Once again you pretend that you know more what I meant than me.
Once again, as far as I know, you don't live in my mind!
And what I said was perfectly clear for people who see more than what is written. (you are the first one to write all that stuff about my posts while they are already few days old, you just try to pick at me and find EXCUSES, that's all!)
Projection in future, know what it is? That's what I did in my first post. But that's LAST time I explain myself, so your loss if you still don't get it!
Moreover, all your posts are based on something I kept reminding that it isn't the case (excepted first post): something frequent which is the only solution coming from me. I didn't, because it was very obvious, remind that all of that (in first post with input, not on others where I explained), would NOT happen if they used contraception. Sure sometimes it can fail, but again, it's rare. So ALL your attempts at me fail, as I said. If contraception didn't exist. They would be accurate.
Completly miss the point of others' posts? Oh please...stop!
In past, below 4-5 you weren't a true human. Now that is gone for good.
Now, it's more or less -7/-8 monthes. My *rarely used* examples apply BEFORE the limit.
So all of what you tried, doesn't work. There is no holes in what I said, since I consider the above as true, and since abortion happen during this, and since anyway, on majority of cases, contraception solves problem of unwanted children. If contraception and "legal age for abortion" didn't exist, there would have holes making your speech true.
Re: Abortion
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:05 am
by semper
Jim and Corran, please try to keep it nicer. Remember the rules, if children cannot play nicely, their toys are taken away...
~Semper
Re: Abortion
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:26 pm
by Mister Sandman
What defines a human?
Once the seed is planted that is new life and thus, human.
Why is abortion wrong?
The murder of the innocence.
Excuses and Replies.
Conception didn't work! - It doesn't matter if it did not work. Abstinence is the key.
No sex = No chance of getting pregnant.
Overall, keep it in your pants.
What about rape?
3/4 of the time the girl is in wrong place. Fault lays on both sides. The babby should be born.
for the unfortunate 1/4 ~ Abortion is isn't the answer. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Re: Abortion
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:41 pm
by Cole
Mister Sandman wrote:What defines a human?
Once the seed is planted that is new life and thus, human.
Why is abortion wrong?
The murder of the innocence.
Excuses and Replies.
Conception didn't work! - It doesn't matter if it did not work. Abstinence is the key.
No sex = No chance of getting pregnant.
Overall, keep it in your pants.
What about rape?
3/4 of the time the girl is in wrong place. Fault lays on both sides. The babby should be born.
for the unfortunate 1/4 ~ Abortion is isn't the answer. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Abstinence is the key...we live in 21st century dude! People use contraception and if it doesn't work, it's their right to do abortion -in right time-. If they didn't use contraception then it's their fault I agree lol. Abstinence for who wants, but no way it becomes "what must be done". But well it's not what gets most my attention in your post.
What you say about rape is disgusting. "It's your fault if you are raped". I'm sure you wouldn't say that if you were a father and that your daughter suffered from that.
And did you ever think how life would be for the child coming from such "creation"? Know you are born from a raping. You think it's better to let person live and eventually commite suicide when they learn it? Yea it's better than killing something being few weeks old and not being yet really human. Meh.
People who say/think that obviously don't give a damn about the concerned people.
Abortion - the murder of innocence.
That's excessiveness! So is your definition of human.
Re: Abortion
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:37 am
by Mister Sandman
LegendaryApophis wrote:Abstinence is the key...we live in 21st century dude! People use contraception and if it doesn't work, it's their right to do abortion -in right time-. If they didn't use contraception then it's their fault I agree lol. Abstinence for who wants, but no way it becomes "what must be done".
Does it matter what time we live in? Just saying everyone else is doing does not we should degrade ourselves.
Abstinence is the best of contraception.
But well it's not what gets most my attention in your post.
What you say about rape is disgusting. "It's your fault if you are raped". I'm sure you wouldn't say that if you were a father and that your daughter suffered from that.
If I were a father, my daughter would NOT be in a situation like that.
By saying "It's your fault if you are raped" I mean that the girls put themselves in a risky situation. For example, when clubbing not going with a group of friends....ect....
Also the matter of dress becomes a issues.
Remove temptation form everyone. If they are not tempted. There is reduced risk.
And did you ever think how life would be for the child coming from such "creation"? Know you are born from a raping. You think it's better to let person live and eventually commite suicide when they learn it? Yea it's better than killing something being few weeks old and not being yet really human. Meh.
Point 1. By letting the child have life, well giving the child life, means that even though the child was not "planned" it shows that they are loved.
Point 2. It is better to give the chance, and the choice then to assume that your "all knowing" and know what is best for everyone.
Point 3. Murder is wrong. Your saying that its better for me to kill a younger person than kill one of my elders. Your logic is flawed.
On a personal note. I was not a planned child. However, I am thankful that my parents, and God, had enough love let me live. And I know that there is a plan for my life, as there is a plan for everyone. People who say/think that obviously don't give a damn about the concerned people.
Abortion - the murder of innocence.
That's excessiveness! So is your definition of human.
No matter how you want to spin this, once the seed is planted, it has been given life, and thus, human.
Re: Abortion
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:01 am
by Demeisen
Mister Sandman wrote:3/4 of the time the girl is in wrong place. Fault lays on both sides. The babby should be born.
blaming rape victims for being raped? thats a idiot perspective. no matter where a person is they have the right to be there without getting raped.
if you ever get raped i hope you feel its your fault for being in the 'wrong place' and blame yourself. thats a warped idea but i guess thats the christian way
i was under the impression that abortion was only legal in the
UK within a certain amount of time after conception? i also believe that after this time (24 weeks?) comes the point at which the baby could potentially survive. so an abortion within the period where the baby wouldnt survive isnt exactly murder as its life wasnt going to happen anyway.
im quite sure this cut of time hasnt changed much recently, despite advances in medical abilities. this seems to suggest that there is a point at which the baby will not be capable of living.
abortions after that point i would disagree as it destroys something ready to live.
Re: Abortion
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:36 am
by Apadamek
Mister Sandman wrote:LegendaryApophis wrote:'m sure you wouldn't say that if you were a father and that your daughter suffered from that.
If I were a father, my daughter would NOT be in a situation like that.
By saying "It's your fault if you are raped" I mean that the girls put themselves in a risky situation. For example, when clubbing not going with a group of friends....ect....
Also the matter of dress becomes a issues.
Remove temptation form everyone. If they are not tempted. There is reduced risk.
Re: Abortion
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:11 am
by Thade
Mister Sandman wrote:If I were a father, my daughter would NOT be in a situation like that.
By saying "It's your fault if you are raped" I mean that the girls put themselves in a risky situation. For example, when clubbing not going with a group of friends....ect....
Also the matter of dress becomes a issues.
Remove temptation form everyone. If they are not tempted. There is reduced risk.
Remove temptation from everyone? ha that is impossible. Psychologists have shown that rape has very little to do with sexual appeal anyways, and is much more about power over the victim so a woman could be wearing a burqa and still be raped.
Also, another person's rights and privileges end where mine begin, thus if a female wanted to walk down the street naked she shouldn't fear getting raped just because she's putting it on display (probably have to worry about "Indecent Exposure" laws but not a rape). By justifying the acts of a rapist you are undermining your case.
Now to argue against abortion. Stating that it is okay to abort a fetus because it is yet viable does not make it something other than murder. If you went into a hospital and removed the intubator from a coma patient who was unable to breath on their own that would result in a murder charge (or attempted murder if the staff was able to re-intubate). Because science has yet reached the level of ability to sustain the life directly after conception does not cause it to be an less alive.
I'm not reading all the other posts in here as most are probably pointless. The only time abortion should be given consideration is when the mother's life is in danger. I mean just think how you would feel if your mother had instead decided to abort you?
Re: Abortion
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:15 am
by Cole
Thade wrote:I mean just think how you would feel if your mother had instead decided to abort you?
I would feel "thank you very much".
(without irony)
Re: Abortion
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:05 am
by Miss4tunE
Only reason I can think of with regards to the posting of these topics is that someone definately wants to laugh a little or waste a little bit more time. Either way these posts and topics like this are amusing - No one ever wins - people jsut argue till bordom sets in.
But still - my views.
The woman who has to carry the child decides - Its her body after all. There are too many circumstances of how it happened or views on life etc to make a true "moral" decision. So yep - her body - her rules.
Re: Abortion
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:39 pm
by Mister Sandman
Thade wrote:
Remove temptation from everyone? ha that is impossible. Psychologists have shown that rape has very little to do with sexual appeal anyways, and is much more about power over the victim so a woman could be wearing a burqa and still be raped.
True, however, the temptations of things. Stupid decisions I should say.
Take the average jock/party type male. (Which you would see at night clubs ect....)
Add a beer, and the possibility of drugs. That = stupid things been done.
The guy might see a good looking girl... He thinks he has a chance, and goes for it. If he gets rejected, he drugs her drink and takes her out back.
If he doesnt get rejected, he'll get her smashed and takes her out back.
If the guy isnt sterile, the guy is too stupid to use protection or any conception and thus, high chances of a pregnancy.
Point being: Don't party without good friends looking out for you. In addition take drugs, and dont get drunk. In addition, DONT HAVE SEX BEFORE YOUR READY FOR KIDS. If you MUST, dont be a idiot, get protected in 2 ways. And if they dont work.... YOUR FAULT.
I may be generalising a bit, but it happens.
It comes down to fact, if you expose yourself to fire you will get burned.
And thats where it comes to in mind of educating, and protecting your children.
Also, another person's rights and privileges end where mine begin, thus if a female wanted to walk down the street naked she shouldn't fear getting raped just because she's putting it on display (probably have to worry about "Indecent Exposure" laws but not a rape). By justifying the acts of a rapist you are undermining your case.
1. No sin is justified. 2. The man should be punished severely. 3. Men are dogs. 4. Children should be better educated.
However, dress is a matter.
I have no qualms with nudists. They are "free". However, you shouldn't overestimate peoples self-control. Some people just have none.
In addition, pornography is exacerbating the issue of rape.
Re: Abortion
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:44 pm
by n3M351s
Abortion
In favour?
No.
Reason: Abortion = Murder.
Re: Abortion
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:53 pm
by Mister Sandman
n3M351s wrote:Abortion
In favour?
No.
Reason: Abortion = Murder.
Nice and simple.