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Guild wrote:o look i have fallen ill and need drugs to keep me alive ........o wait i cannot affor them,*the person now dies*

-america

o look i have fallen ill and need drugs to keep me alive ........o look i got the drugs i needed *sed person now lives a happy life*

-nhs country

Over-simplify much?

buck wrote:

Kit-Fox wrote:

Mordack wrote:I'm not against the system, and I'm Pro-NHS, but I honestly don't think that public healthcare would work in America. It's the wrong kind of country.

you actually support a system that makes doctors unaccountable to the point where they can ruin a persons a life and suffer no consequences for doing so.

the nhs is bloated, arrogant and unfit for purpose and should be dismantled. The US was right to not use such a system before and hopefully will not use one in the future

at least that person is given a chance to live by those doctors, id rather that than not be able to see one at all.

And you suffer from what chronic condition exactly that the nhs caused in the first place by their ineptitude and rationing of treatment that causes you constant daily pain requiring painkillers that prevent you from working???

Not to mention that the nhs simply refuses to take responsibility for the problems it has caused or to do anything to reduce them.

No really teh NHS is retarded and cant be saved, it should be closed up. I cant afford private treatment myself but i'd rather not have treatment (from the nhs) and risk having a permanent problem or death than have the treatment, only to reach the end and realise they **Filtered** it up and refuse to accept they got it wrong or to do anything about it.

Hell I wouldnt trust an nhs doctor with the life of a stuffed toy nevermind my own

sorry but i cant be arsed reading paragraph after paragraph of the same thing worded differently over and over again

Kit-Fox wrote:

buck wrote:

Kit-Fox wrote:

Mordack wrote:I'm not against the system, and I'm Pro-NHS, but I honestly don't think that public healthcare would work in America. It's the wrong kind of country.

you actually support a system that makes doctors unaccountable to the point where they can ruin a persons a life and suffer no consequences for doing so.

the nhs is bloated, arrogant and unfit for purpose and should be dismantled. The US was right to not use such a system before and hopefully will not use one in the future

at least that person is given a chance to live by those doctors, id rather that than not be able to see one at all.

And you suffer from what chronic condition exactly that the nhs caused in the first place by their ineptitude and rationing of treatment that causes you constant daily pain requiring painkillers that prevent you from working???

Not to mention that the nhs simply refuses to take responsibility for the problems it has caused or to do anything to reduce them.

No really teh NHS is retarded and cant be saved, it should be closed up. I cant afford private treatment myself but i'd rather not have treatment (from the nhs) and risk having a permanent problem or death than have the treatment, only to reach the end and realise they **Filtered** it up and refuse to accept they got it wrong or to do anything about it.

Hell I wouldnt trust an nhs doctor with the life of a stuffed toy nevermind my own

so you would choose to die knowing you never even tried wow you probably werent worth trying to save in the first place, so go spread you negative image of the nhs somewhere else somewhere where the people dont want help and just want to die because of ignorance and inability to afford payment .

I'm sorry you wanted bubbles blown up your ass?

The nhs is so beyond accountability that it needs its ivory tower attitude brutally destroyed. The doctors and so called 'consultants' all want to live in the 50s and be worshipped as 'saints in surgical garb' lets not all forget to bow to all great and wonderful doctor as we are in their presence.

The nhs withholds treatment from those who it deems arent 'immediate cases' and willingly lets conditions get worse to save a lil bit of cash in the short term. Instead of treating of conditions as they appear and saving money in the long run and peoples lives to boot.

So yes i'd rather die than let one of those malpractising idiots touch me. They cant even diagnose a half collapsed hip without an MRI for gods sake. A 1st year medical student in any other country could do that from an x-ray for crying out loud!

just out of interest which hospital do you work for then?? i assume you work for the nhs as your so blindly sticking up for them

EDIT: oh i forgot to mention waiting times as well, it took from october last year to april this year to get a contrast CT and i'm still waiting for the damned results ffs which I probably wont see till next year and i'm supposed to base a surgical decision off them?!?!?!?! get real they wont show the the situation as it is now never mind by the time i see the damned thing

IF you want more tales of woe just google for stuff such as :

nhs problems
nhs incompetance
useless nhs

and any variation of the general term 'useless'

EDIT:

so you would choose to die knowing you never even tried wow you probably werent worth trying to save in the first place, so go spread you negative image of the nhs somewhere else somewhere where the people dont want help and just want to die because of ignorance and inability to afford payment .

And to this I level a charge of insulting a uneeded commentary. Would you like a complaint registered with the mods?

that said did you read anywhere in my post the words 'i wouldnt try to save myself' ?? If you did could you please point it out for me as i must have missed it, odd that the author usually knows what they wrote.

As for judging the worth of my life, i refer to the first bit, did i judge your life and tell you your unworthy to live? Next time you want to post something like that, heres an idea, get lost and cram it up your proverbial.

dunno what backwater press youve been reading, but id love your evidence that backs up all these claims your makeing about the NHS and there hidden agenda to kill everyone. Please make the sources you use reputatable , that is if indeed you have any.

The NHS has kept my sister alive for 20+ years. Not to mention saved my dads life, and kept his quality of life the same, if not better, than it has been in many years.

Im sure the odd doctor will make a mistake, yes, but dictors are there to help, they are human and often overworked, youd expect them to make the odd mistake. But it has been a very long time since ive heard of anything which you claim the NHS causes, happening. Infact, half of it has, as far as my recolection of news storeys regarding the nhs goes, have simply never happened.

Kit-Fox wrote:I'm sorry you wanted bubbles blown up your ass?

The nhs is so beyond accountability that it needs its ivory tower attitude brutally destroyed. The doctors and so called 'consultants' all want to live in the 50s and be worshipped as 'saints in surgical garb' lets not all forget to bow to all great and wonderful doctor as we are in their presence.

The nhs withholds treatment from those who it deems arent 'immediate cases' and willingly lets conditions get worse to save a lil bit of cash in the short term. Instead of treating of conditions as they appear and saving money in the long run and peoples lives to boot.

So yes i'd rather die than let one of those malpractising idiots touch me. They cant even diagnose a half collapsed hip without an MRI for gods sake. A 1st year medical student in any other country could do that from an x-ray for crying out loud!

just out of interest which hospital do you work for then?? i assume you work for the nhs as your so blindly sticking up for them

EDIT: oh i forgot to mention waiting times as well, it took from october last year to april this year to get a contrast CT and i'm still waiting for the damned results ffs which I probably wont see till next year and i'm supposed to base a surgical decision off them?!?!?!?! get real they wont show the the situation as it is now never mind by the time i see the damned thing

IF you want more tales of woe just google for stuff such as :

nhs problems
nhs incompetance
useless nhs

and any variation of the general term 'useless'

EDIT:

so you would choose to die knowing you never even tried wow you probably werent worth trying to save in the first place, so go spread you negative image of the nhs somewhere else somewhere where the people dont want help and just want to die because of ignorance and inability to afford payment .

And to this I level a charge of insulting a uneeded commentary. Would you like a complaint registered with the mods?

that said did you read anywhere in my post the words 'i wouldnt try to save myself' ?? If you did could you please point it out for me as i must have missed it, odd that the author usually knows what they wrote.

As for judging the worth of my life, i refer to the first bit, did i judge your life and tell you your unworthy to live? Next time you want to post something like that, heres an idea, get lost and cram it up your proverbial.

Kit-Fox wrote:i wouldnt try to save myself

right there. and thank god

Kit-Fox wrote:And to this I level a charge of insulting a uneeded commentary. Would you like a complaint registered with the mods?

u absolute pansy just shhhhhhhhh

o and thank you iam only 17 and of back to school but thanks anyway and good try -

Kit-Fox wrote:i assume you work for the nhs as your so blindly sticking up for them

Guild, Now stop being a smart ass and find it the post you know i was referring to, otherwise shut up and go away. As for being 17, well I hope you never need treatment for a chronic condition or develop say osteoarthritis, as if/when you do you might see what I mean.

As for the pansy comment, I ask you have you read/understood the forum rules? personal insults arent allowed. I didnt make the rules, you wanna complain about that goto the mods.

I also notice you ignored everything above, nice that trying to change the subject and getting away from the topic when your arguments run out

Buck, no most of these things never make the press as doctors and the nhs bully people into going away. Seriously, go and google something like 'nhs problems' or other such sting and a whole host of sites and complaints will hit you right in the face. People complain on the internet on forums where they can claim posts are of personal opinion and so evade malicious prosecutions from the nhs.

btw the specific bits i'm referring to are my own experiences, so yes i know they are true and yes i can back it up with records and facts. but no i'm not going to post my medical record on a public internet forum for crying out loud

EDIT: oh and as for things never happening while we're on the subject of the nhs would you like to comment on all the people lying in their own piss/crap/vomit and those who arent fed and left to die on hospital wards which has made the news recently quite a bit if your paying attention and has even been filmed happening so its pretty damned hard to say it doesnt happen and as its been filmed in hospitals up and down the country its also hard to say its an isolated problem

It makes the news cos it is so rare.

Im sorry your experiance within the NHS has left you bitter, however i refuse to accept most of what you say, as, through my own personal experiance, i see nothing valid in your claims. Im sure yours isnt the only inciddent were someone was left untreated or ill, but im also sure there is more to every storey than meets the eye. Simply googleing nhs problems is not proof.

Yes, there has been 2 or 3 cases of people being left to die in there own filth, however you will note this is not nhs policy, and was due to the overworking of nurses, due to poor management at a ground level, something which needs to be, and is being, looked into on every level.

you will find if you care to google, many others who can prove with medical records and facts the failing of the nhs much like I can, but if your unwilling to even bother typing two words into google then why are you even bothering talking about this?

Earendil wrote:Let's just google and Wiki everything now people, the internet never lies or has personal bias on it's pages at all.

hahahahaha, it is simply a resource we all have access tothat can be accessed at all times. naturally you need to read whatever you choose to look at carefully. but you can find good stuff and refusing to even look at one page of results for two rather simple words is just unbelievable as its not going to cost you anything to do it is it now?

Im not saying i wont, or indeed, havent googled your three phrases you cared to provide, however, as i noted in my post, which you seem to have ignored to persue your own agenda, there is always a different explanation and more to the eye of everycase than the simple bias and bitterness of someone who feels the nhs has failed them. Weather or not they have been failed or not is always in question, but i only recall 2 to 3 cases in the past 20 years where the nhs has been proven guilty of neglect or mistreatment in the courts, and even then it has been the fault of a single, or several individuals. Unless you provide something substancial and legal, then the only problems you refare to with evidence of a non bias nature are the video recording of over worked and understaffed wards in various hospitals, with which the NHS has taken steps to rectify the situation. Of course in such a large network of healthcare you will always come accross incopetance in a few doctors and nurses, but that is simply not a reflection on 99% of the NHS and its staff.

Now i say again, i have googled what youve asked, and i find only the personal views and a few clippings from the odd local newspaper. Its really no cause for an arguement against the nhs nor is there ANY proof for what you claim. My apoligies if you dissagree, but this simply is the case.

The NHS has never given me, nor anyone I know, a reason to complain. It is a system with flaws, admittedly, but I still consider it infinitely system to a deregulated profit based system run by venture capitalists.

Any political party to propose privatizing the NHS here would be committing political suicide. Not even Thatcher, Friedman's iron angel of the eighties, dared touch it.