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An alternative to citing sources is being completely theoretical and having a clear, structurised premise to conclusion progression. My Creditor-Debtor argument is an example of this.

By the way, Jim, feel free to provide French sources. It's my mothertongue, too, and as mentioned, it's better than not citing at all. I'm sure there are others on this forum who also have some understanding of French, and for those who don't, they can use online translation tools to get a general gist of the ideas presented.

@Avenger: By aloof, he may mean that your sources make claims that they may not support adequately.

Agapooka

i get it mate, but the whole damn thing is shear madness, hence my post.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:as you well know, you cant make that stuff up!

Correction. Anyone with a creative mind can connect the random dots. Especially someone with an exceptional intelligence, who has access to a willing public.
In fact. Anyone with a sane mind WILL connect the dots to find a pattern which may or may not be there.
To illustrate: If I were to give you one hundred random numbers (*really* random, not rnd(int)-random), you will find a pattern. It may take you a long time, but a pattern you will find. Perhaps you will conclude that the pattern repeats only *after* the 100th number.. but "that is a pattern too" (sic!).


By that, I mean that if I were to look at all the events in the news, and look at them with an open, creative mind.. hell, I could find a story like nothing else. And since I have access to mass media (in order to launch my story), I can rely on the stupidity of my general audience to both buy my first story, AND to make up for any flaws in the theories I launch.
In short, stupidity, fallacies and misconceptions breed more stupidity, fallacies and misconceptions. I shudder when I think about the superiority complex the people who have been "enlightened" have towards those poor slums who didn't buy the tragicomical, surrealistic blabbering of ridiculously overpaid fiction writers.

You are familiar with the term "viral marketing", yes? I urge you to think about the billions of dollars made by the collective conspiracy-theorist orchestra. You complain about having to pay taxes? I complain about having to pay for subsidies to the lunatics who cannot accept that the world they live in is a terribly bland, boring and ultimately merciful environment.
It is a shame, really.. but I guess freedom of speech has these unforeseen, utterly boring consequences.


If you seek an intellectual challenge, I urge you to let go of your imaginative state wherein your world suffers from discrete changes in its socioeconomic structure. If you let go of the incredibly simplistic view that every single dot you see is connected to other dots you see, then you might see the forces at work behind the dots. Instead of predicting hell and damnation to those who fail to fall in line.. you might want to at least act a little less short-sighted.

DAMN GIRL!!! i don't even know where to start to pick that lot apart

anyways, i stand by what i say in all of my posts...

accept it or not, look for yourself or not, its obviously your choice, but i'm telling you, the world is run by a bloodline of eugenicist banking elite intent or killing anywhere between 80 to 90% of the worlds population and those that will survive will be left to service the elites...


as i said...you CANNOT make this stuff up...

sorry, i don't by into patterns (bible code...give me a break!) and whatnot.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:DAMN GIRL!!! i don't even know where to start to pick that lot apart

Uh-huh. Obviously. Start at the top, and work your way down. Or ignore it, if it's too true to be properly rebutted.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:anyways, i stand by what i say in all of my posts...

*stops self from quoting one of Avenger's more silly posts to see what else he stands by*

[KMA]Avenger wrote:accept it or not, look for yourself or not, its obviously your choice, but i'm telling you, the world is run by a bloodline of eugenicist banking elite intent or killing anywhere between 80 to 90% of the worlds population and those that will survive will be left to service the elites...

Sounds about right. 90% is a bit of a conservative guess though. I'd go for 99%, that speaks to the imagination better. Imagine 100 people, 99 get killed. Wonderful way of ensuring peace, prosperity and .. wait for it .. soup.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:as i said...you CANNOT make this stuff up...

Someone did. What, wait. Someone is also making up a Zionist threat to the world! (1)
Someone went to all the trouble of picking a few news items and made a wonderful story about them, and how it's all the fault of Rothschild and the Jews. The semi-moronic attitude I display here is due to the frustration I feel.. these people .. are .. so .. damned .. stupid! Then again, they ask for donations in the War on Jews, so they must not be too dumb after all. Because we wouldn't give a damn unless it costs us money.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:sorry, i don't by into patterns (bible code...give me a break!) and whatnot.

Then, by extension of the evidence(2) presented, you are not human. That makes me wonder.. are you a satanic reptilian double agent who I just managed to trap with my brilliant schemes and semantic crypticism?!


(1)- http://www.realzionistnews.com/ - not worth the effort of writing a proper citation.

(2)- "Duke University Medical Center researchers have discovered the brain region that automatically watches for patterns in sequences of events, even when the pattern emerges by random happenstance." (Duke University (2002, April . Brain Center Searches For Patterns. ScienceDaily. Retrieved September 7, 2009, from http://www.sciencedaily.com­ /releases/2002/04/020408075734.htm)

To think some people believe this load of filth. (the big bad evil zionist conspiracy)

In France we got a party, made of far right/far left rebuttals, islamists, communautarists...their name could be translated in english into Antizionist party.
Infact, they are indeed antizionist antisemitic.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

See the scummish antisemitic symbol they got...
Now if you understand french...you'll see very interesting things in following article, and that Universe is indeed right about all of this.

http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societ ... 43285.html

Most interesting part in this article:

L'ultradroite en quête d'alliés

La mise en scène, nocturne, martiale, rappelle de sombres périodes. Le 6 février dernier, vers 20 heures, 150 militants d'extrême droite se sont rassemblés, à la lumière des flambeaux, aux abords de l'Assemblée nationale, à Paris. Une manifestation autorisée, mais placée sous forte surveillance policière. Les principaux courants de la droite ultra étaient présents: vieux nostalgiques du IIIe Reich, skinheads, jeunes garçons et filles se réclamant du "nationalisme social", venus honorer la mémoire des morts des émeutes antirépublicaines du 6 février 1934. Si le mot "juif" n'a jamais été prononcé dans les allocutions, tous les poncifs antisémites des années 1930 ont été passés en revue: "forces occultes qui dominent la nation","financiers apatrides", "purs produits de la Compagnie financière de Rothschild"...

Checkmate?

For some reason it's more accepted to be anti-arabic than anti-semitic...

As for the proverbial dots, let them connect themselves. Build an argument where, if the premises are true, the conclusion must follow. Then you will know which premises must be questioned. Question those premises.

I disagree that one ought not pursue the dots and that which may or may not bind them. With the appropriate methodology, one can have a more consistent, rational, logical understanding of the actual connections and the "forces at work" behind the proverbial dots.

I have two ways of making points that can be perceived as controversial:

1. By using a clear premise to conclusion progression in my argument.
2. By hypothesising that a particular method of reaching a given goal would effectively allow one to reach that goal. If it is indeed thus, the actuality of it being an active means to an end depends upon the assumption that the goal is one that individuals with the competence and ability to execute the means would be motivated and capable to pursue.

Agapooka

Agapooka wrote:For some reason it's more accepted to be anti-arabic than anti-semitic...

L'Express isn't a controversial newspaper, giving its article more weight. It's not some dark site being anti something, it's from a centre-right news analysis french newspaper.

Anyway, by observing by my own eyes my own experiences in real life, and seeing different news from my and neighboor countries...I can easily say that saying pointing out islam fundamentalism in EU is anything but anti-arabic. NOW, if I was to say every muslim was a threat or a terrorist in hide, I would indeed be no better than antisemitic scums. But, if you read my posts on the subject, youwill see I put a line between integrated muslims and others, those causiing problems. Sure, it'smore complicated...but it's more or less that.
Btw, zionists or whatever troublemaking and threats in EU are so small that yelling zionist conspiracies is not hard to determine what you are! Same for 30s, jews did no harm in Europe, those spreading said conspiracies/lies however were the upcoming monsters from late 30s early 40s.

Oh, I wasn't saying that you're anti-arabic, only that it seems to me that it's more acceptable in this society, although both are admittedly not without some form of controversy.

I believe that any threat to freedom and peace does not come from any one nationality, but rather from individuals that act in a way that ultimately compromises freedom and peace. The act of pointing fingers is a symptom of foolishness. I refuse to point fingers. I find it more constructive to know my own goals and observe and react to any active force between me and those goals. If my goals are freedom and peace and my government is waging war and legislating limits on my freedom, I must deal with that, must I not?

Furthermore, if my government is a representative government, whom does it represent? Can it represent me against my will? If I perceive that its actions indeed do not represent me and I am not satisfied, can I separate myself from liability for this unsatisfactory representation? Ought I not be insulted to be represented in such a manner that I deem to not represent me?

No. Being insulted is a waste of time and energy. I'd rather terminate such a relationship and pursue more constuctive things than feeling insulted.

Agapooka

This topic is all good. This is the section of openness and slack rules!

I think it is actually quite an interesting topic and has certainly made for an interesting read so far. If only I had the time to mentally abuse the rest of the forum and do anything but mod and read in here....

@no one in particular: i'm kind of hesitant and reluctant to post a reply for fear of taking this even further of topic

Universe wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:DAMN GIRL!!! i don't even know where to start to pick that lot apart

Uh-huh. Obviously. Start at the top, and work your way down. Or ignore it, if it's too true to be properly rebutted.

[/quote]

that thought had occurred to me, but that's not what i meant, i simply couldn't be bothered to pick apart your post and reply to each and every point, at that time due being in pain (the ongoing eye problem i have ).

Universe wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:anyways, i stand by what i say in all of my posts...

*stops self from quoting one of Avenger's more silly posts to see what else he stands by*

as i said, so bring it on

Universe wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:accept it or not, look for yourself or not, its obviously your choice, but i'm telling you, the world is run by a bloodline of eugenicist banking elite intent or killing anywhere between 80 to 90% of the worlds population and those that will survive will be left to service the elites...

Sounds about right. 90% is a bit of a conservative guess though. I'd go for 99%, that speaks to the imagination better. Imagine 100 people, 99 get killed. Wonderful way of ensuring peace, prosperity and .. wait for it .. soup.

thank your lucky stars Dr. Eric R Pianka isn't the one calling the shots, he teaches in schools that ALL people should be killed, EVERYONE, including himself and his family, by way of an air-born Ebola virus due to the fact that AIDS is taking to long!

Universe wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:sorry, i don't by into patterns (bible code...give me a break!) and whatnot.

Then, by extension of the evidence(2) presented, you are not human. That makes me wonder.. are you a satanic reptilian double agent who I just managed to trap with my brilliant schemes and semantic crypticism?!

not the last time i checked , if i was, i doubt you or anyone else would be either smart enough or strong enough to do anything about me

Universe wrote:(1)- http://www.realzionistnews.com/ - not worth the effort of writing a proper citation.
(2)- "Duke University Medical Center researchers have discovered the brain region that automatically watches for patterns in sequences of events, even when the pattern emerges by random happenstance." (Duke University (2002, April . Brain Center Searches For Patterns. ScienceDaily. Retrieved September 7, 2009, from http://www.sciencedaily.com­ /releases/2002/04/020408075734.htm)

the only pattern i see here, is constant denial, even tho the ones at the heart of all this crap ADMIT to it!

but hey, lets just carry on believing that Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, Manuel Noriega and all the other 2 bob dictators came out of no where...hell, lets go 1 further and believe JFK died from a single bullet, shot by a lone gunman....

i tell you what, lets completely let loose and believe that CIA asset, Tim Osman, sorry, i mean Osama Bin Laden, hiding in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan managed to knock down 3 building with only 2 planes, and has managed to avoid being captured for something he supposedly done, even tho 9/11 is not listed amongst his crimes on the FBI's most wanted list

About your Eric Pianka part:

Pianka's March, 2006 acceptance speech for the 2006 Distinguished Texas Scientist award by the The Texas Academy of Science resulted in controversy in the popular press when Forrest Mims claimed that Pianka had advocated genocide.[15] Mims' affiliate at the Discovery Institute, William Dembski, then informed the Department of Homeland Security because he and Mims felt that Pianka's speech fomented bioterrorism.[16] This resulted in the Federal Bureau of Investigation interviewing Pianka in Austin.[17]

Pianka has stated that Mims took his statements out of context and that Pianka was stating what would happen from biological principles alone if present human population trends continue, and that he was not in any way advocating for it to happen. The host of the speech, the Texas Academy of Sciences, has released a statement stating that:

"Many of Dr. Pianka's statements have been severely misconstrued and sensationalized."[18]

See, he attracted attention, even FBI's attention after being reported...so it's not like such speeches don't cause troubles to the oneswho speak them.

*I also read the complete article about it*


Also, for people here who cannot understand french, here's translated version of the extract of previously posted article:

The ultraright in search of allies
The direction, night-, military, remind somber periods. On February 6th of this year, at about 8 pm, 150 extreme right-wing activists collected, in the light of torches, around the National Assembly, in Paris. An authorized demonstration, but placed under strong police surveillance. The main currents of the right extreme reactionary were present: nostalgic old men of the IIIth Reich, the skinheads, the young boys and the girls referring to the " social nationalism ", come honor the memory of the deaths of the antirepublican riots of February 6th, 1934. If the word "Jew" was never pronounced in short speeches, all the anti-semitic commonplaces of the 1930s were reviewed: " occult strengths which dominate the nation ", " stateless financiers ", " pure products of the Finance company of Rothschild "...

Excuse us if we aren't really up to believe said theories.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Dr. Death & The Religion Of Genocide
Disciple of Pianka goes further, wants 100% of humans dead

Paul Joseph Watson April 5 2006



Dr. Pianka: What nobody wants to hear, but everyone needs to know


[spoiler]Professor's "Kill 90% of Population" Comments Echo UN, Elite NGO None-Governmental Organizations) policies

UT professor criticized over comments about impending pandemic

Top Scientist Advocates Mass Culling 90% Of Human Population

The elite have created a religion of genocide and the nation's universities are the churches for the communication of an environmental jihad that threatens to decimate the human species as we know it.

The furore surrounding the comments of Professor Eric R. Pianka, who told a crowd at Arlington UT that 90% of the world population need to be culled to solve overpopulation, have been characterized on the one hand by an expected outrage but on the other by a sycophantic mainstream media who have collaborated to spin the story and obfuscate the real issues.

Pianka's back-peddling and his whimpering cries of protest that if we don't control population then viruses will (unquestionably parroted by a completely biased local NBC news piece) is again ridiculed by the facts, as outlined by Shawn Carlson, Ph.D. in his excellent article.

"The data stand utterly against this idea. Plagues have run rampant through human populations throughout time. Millions have died. Huge fractions of some populations have been wiped out. But the net death rate has never come close to the fractions that Pianka envisions. Virulent diseases that kill quickly tend to burn themselves out. Natural selection creates less lethal varieties because an organism can't spread if it kills its host before it can propagate. The flu pandemic of 1918 (the influenza virus is championed by Pianka) may have killed 50 million people, but that was only about 5 percent of those infected. Moreover, every year sees medical advancements—screening techniques improve, as do our methods of creating new vaccines and treating illness of all kinds."

The Associated Press article and local TV news pieces focused entirely on Pianka's pleas of innocence and whitewashed or completely omitted what he actually said in his speeches. Pianka claims he is merely trying to warn humanity against coming plagues while he snickers in front of a slide of glowing skulls and carries with him an ebola plush toy. If Pianka wants to warn the world as he claimed in the news interview then why were cameramen at his speech asked to turned their cameras off as Pianka told the audience that "the world wasn't ready to hear what he had to say"? This is a total contradiction and exposes Pianka for the liar he is but the biased self-proclaimed 'journalists' didn't pick up on it.

The establishment press twisted the report to make Pianka seem like the victim. The real story is the fact that 95% of his peers, fellow scientists, professors and students cheered and applauded his public declaration that ebola, a disease that liquefies the internal organs of its victims in a torturous insufferable manner, should be used to kill 90% of humanity.

Universities are like Jim Jones cults and the religion of genocide is the kool aid. Almost uniformly they brainwash an army of impressionable students with the propaganda of population control and mass death. It is important to emphasize that in all our combined experience and canvassing views from friends and family members this subject crops up again and again. The academic elite are obsessed with population reduction and they have trained hundreds of thousands of followers to embrace the same lust for death.

This is the religion of the global architects and it is their manufactured justification to usurp all our freedoms. If we are stripped even of the right to live what will happen to our property, our freedom of speech, our freedom of movement and our right to bear arms?

This is about corporate criminals creating religious ideology for environmentalist technicians to carry out an environmental jihad.

Meanwhile, the real environmental dangers are ignored.

- The unrestrained use of depleted uranium which is poisoning the skies of the war torn Middle East and then drifting westward to infect our skies.

- How genetically modified foods are dangerous to humans and fundamentally affect the food chain.

- Cross cloning of humans and animals to create hybrid chimeras, many in tax-funded Universities, including the University of Pennsylvania's School of Medicine, a practice that opens the doors to untold bizarre and freakish developments in cloning with no ethical debate whatsoever as well as deadly viruses and pathogens.

There is a clear crossover between the madcap worlds of ecology and bio-ethics. Princeton University's Peter Singer -- probably the world's most well-known bioethicist, advocates the right of parents to be able to kill their own newborn babies. Singer compares babies to mackerel, writing, "Since neither a newborn infant nor a fish is a person, the wrongness of killing such beings is not as great as the wrongness of killing a person."

Try and imagine the world that Singer is advocating, where parents unhappy with how their baby looks or if it has a minor disability go outside and throw it in the trash as they would food that had passed its sell-by date. Singer is routinely protested in Germany and Austria by family members of Holocaust victims but his speeches in America are usually well received by the academic elite.

Pianka and Singer both owe their allegiance in part to the strata of eugenics, which is defined as the study of hereditary improvement of the human race by controlled selective breeding. Except in this instance Pianka goes a step further, arguing that humans should be sacrificed for the good of mother Earth.

Eugenics was embraced by the Nazis after Adolf Hitler managed to pass a law in 1934 enabling the mass sterilization of anyone the state deemed to be 'feebleminded'. At the same time in the US, 35 states had laws enabling forced sterilization of those considered defective. From the 1920's to the late 1970's, 60,000 to 100,000 people were sterilized across the nation after being termed imbeciles by dubious review panels.

Julian Huxley, the brother of Aldous Huxley and the first director of UNESCO, knew that after the Nazis gave its implementation a negative slant, eugenics had to be re-branded and it became known as 'bio-ethics' and 'transhumanism' and was introduced to the universities.

People like Singer and Pianka are aiding this anti-human movement gain traction again as social Darwinists and Malthusians dominate the halls of academia.

We received an e mail from one of Pianka's followers, Rebecca Calisi, who is a Biology student at Arlington UT.

Betraying the warped and deranged belief system that Calisi has been indoctrinated into, she actually goes a step further and calls for the eradication of not 90% but 100% of humans from planet Earth!

"There is NO DENYING the natural world would be a better place without people - ALL people! Not a selective bunch. Get it straight," rants Calisi.

Of course! There's no denying the fact that wiping out humanity 100% is the sane, rational and reasonable thing to do! The temerity of Calisi to even couch the horror that she is advocating in such sober context is absolutely chilling and sheds light on the cold and calculating mind set of these demons.

"To liken Pianka to Hitler, etc., is the most absurd, ignorant comment anyone could make. He has spent his career trying to PROTECT life," says Calisi.

She is right and we apologize for this error. To liken Pianka to Hitler is being unfair on Hitler because Hitler only said certain people were a disease whereas Pianka says we all are! A closer parallel can be drawn with Charles Manson, as George Ou of ZD Net writes in reference to the Dr. Carlson article,

"After speaking with Dr. Carlson on the phone, Carlson pointed out that Manson who isn't nearly as charismatic as Pianka had his followers killed around 7 people whereas a future "Piankian" would try and kill 5,000,000,000. Dr. Carson also noted that Pianka like Manson technically never advocated anyone's death but that he merely would like to see it happen. The difference between Piankians and Manson's "family" is that the Piankians work in the scientific field with access to potential weapons of mass destruction."

Calisi says that the only people not applauding Pianka at his UT speech were, "moronic creationists, angry that Pianka informed them they are not the "highest" creatures on this planet."

That's strange because unless someone changed the food chain last night it appears that humans are still sitting at the top. The same species that gave us Mozart, Beethoven, the Sistine Chapel, space travel and the Internet.

Calisi even laments that Pianka, a man who once lived in total isolation for 10 years with no human contact, has already come to the understanding that he is ready to sacrifice his own children and grandchildren for the betterment of the planet. This is absolutely sick and yet Calisi relates it as if it's urbane and rational thinking.

This is a clear and present danger to us that outweighs Al-Qaeda, Iran and North Korea combined. Why? Because Dr. Death types across academia and their followers have access to the very weapons of mass destruction that would enable them to enact their 'final solution'. Both UT Arlington and UT Austin have contracts with Sandia National Laboratories which includes research related to "chemical and biological weapons." Openly stating a desire to see 90% of humanity wiped out by means of releasing a bio-weapon and also having access to biological weapons is in our eyes an alarming precedent.

In addition, in 2003 biological weapons watchdogs asked the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) to suspend biodefense funding for the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston due to the Medical Branch's secrecy about its research on biological weapons agents and its refusal to comply with federal biosafety guidelines.

But the federal government isn't interested, preferring instead to use the Patriot Act to harass artists who use harmless bacterial material for exhibitions.

Where is this all leading?

When biological terror reigns down on US cities will Pianka and his ilk, those who openly advocated such a scenario and had the means of implementing it, be subject to investigation? Or will it be blamed on terrorists while everyone is forced into quarantine concentration camps and martial law is declared?

It is on this basis that we are now seriously considering legal action against Pianka and UT. Without divulging our legal strategy, this clear incitement to genocide which a state funded organization is promoting should cease immediately.[/spoiler]

ROFLMAO. You would believe an sour lemon, a jealous idiot like Mims over Pianka? Your grip is slipping, G.

In a March 3, 2006 lecture at this 109th Annual Meeting, Pianka argued that overpopulation since the onset of industrialisation was destroying the planet and that the Earth would not survive unless its population was reduced to one tenth of the present number. He suggested that the planet would be "better off" if the human population were to crash, and that a mutant strain of Ebola (which has up to a 90% mortality rate) would be the most efficient means.

OF COURSE he would say that. He is a freaking ecologist. The planet would be better off. Of course.


You ARROGANT man, G.. hell, even Nazi's had the proper sense to see that there was more to Earth as just humans. Breed, breed, breed, what in the name of Gaia are you advocating?! That we continue to multiply like cancerous cells? Like the viruses that humans are? Seriously.

Man is something to be overcome.



(This is so incredibly stupid, that I will not even bother with a modicum of respect. Consider this, you have *really* lost it if you're listening to complete morons like Mims.)

So ebola is Gaia's equivalent of a human's penicillin.

But the problem isn't solely in humanity. It is in how it behaves. Some cultures (bacteria have cultures and so do we, apparently ) were able to operate in vivo without causing damage to the planet. Then the European culture came and there was competition and the European strain of humanity took prevalence and its primary conquest-profit mode of operation greatly contributed to the present state of the planet.

I have to go to work, or I'd make this post reply even longer and wittier.

Agapooka