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Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:22 am
by Hitchkok
Legendary Apophis wrote:Edit: oh looks like while posted you linked us to this attention seeking idiotic politician performance.
"Oh look at me I insult Van Rompuy and say that nobody knows him while nobody outside of UK knows me either" roflmao hillarious.
Infact, before this video,
I SINCERLY NEVER EVER HEARD IN MY WHOLE LIFE of this UKip politician, while I've heard several times about Rompuy, when he became Belgium PM, and then President of EU council.
"Belgium is a non country" or whatever he said. Now I call that an awesome argument.
actually, it's a different clip.
and to be honest, the belgium comment is an awesome argument, just in a different context.
see, the whole point of the attack wasn't to change something in the EU. it was to attract a couple more votes in the UK, which it probably did.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:50 am
by Q Man
Legendary Apophis wrote:[KMA]Avenger wrote:i dont care about growth and what was before vs what is now...
what is now is economic meltdown on a scale the world has never seen before!
Greece has i think 27% (not 100% sure) unemployment rate, dont be surprised if those unemployed turn to violence because in any country where they have their own currency they have a few ways to combat the problems such as those faced by Greece, devaluing the currency is one such way, none of which are open to Greece because they are locked in to the Euro through treaties.
Greece only has 2 options open to her, a bailout or default on their debts...what do you think will happen to the Euro if they take either of those 2 options?
and just for the record...in the mountain of paperwork that is the treaties Greece is locked into, nowhere is a bailout allowed under EU rules and regulations!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXmidPjQ ... re=related
First they better not ruin my travel to Greece in next week organized by uni.
Secondly, as promised, I don't care if you conveniently don't care
. It still shows something. Denial with head in the sand when crisis is on to blame everything and conveniently ignore positiveness brought by EU, and for that I don't fall.
HDI
[spoiler]
Code: Select all
Rank Country/Region 1975 1980 1985 1990 1995 2000 2005
13 Spain 0.846 0.863 0.877 0.896 0.914 0.932 0.949
24 Greece 0.841 0.856 0.869 0.877 0.882 0.897 0.926
29 Portugal 0.793 0.807 0.829 0.855 0.885 0.904 0.89
[/spoiler]
GDP
[spoiler]Currency: current international $
http://www.indexmundi.com/portugal/gdp_ ... _(ppp).html
Code: Select all
Portugal
1986 7301.915
2006 20875.69
#41;.html
1986= date of joining the EU.
http://www.indexmundi.com/greece/gdp_pe ... _(ppp).html
1981: join date in the EU[/spoiler]
Now, let's all blame the EU for progress made in those countries within last 30 years!
What you said is TYPICAL. DENY all progresses made on last decades thanks to EU, but when there's problems within said countries...it's EU fault! They probably grew by themselves but strangely enough for bad things it's EU fault. As I said, TYPICAL bad faith!
well, lets be honest jim, without taking things out of context, compare those results to any other developed country. most countries have progressed at the same level, if not more effciently. you're arguement has no depth. where you to show us comparisons between other countries outside the EU, then maybe.
The EU benefits only the big countries. Same goes with the lisbon treaty. the countries that are in debt are being left out in the cold looking for scraps, while the larger countries doing ok financially (due to the EU) are dining finely in their nice warm mansions.
The EU is not offering its help, rather, its doing the opposite. And this whole issue with greece is just going to open more peoples eyes to the problems.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:30 pm
by [KMA]Avenger
Maddog wrote:
The EU is not offering its help, rather, its doing the opposite. And this whole issue with greece is just going to open more peoples eyes to the problems.
well said.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:42 am
by [KMA]Avenger
@pops:
you seem to be taking this very personal (as usual
). this isn't an attack against you or your beliefs, so there is no reason for you to reply the way you do
anyways, its not just the Euro that has holes bigger than the channel tunnel. according to a British Billionaire, the £ is also heading for collapse:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/prominent-i ... weeks.html
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:05 am
by Legendary Apophis
[KMA]Avenger wrote:@pops:
you seem to be taking this very personal (as usual
). this isn't an attack against you or your beliefs, so there is no reason for you to reply the way you do
It's not just your last post that led to it, but the overall of this topic, added to time I spent on it despite fact I had homework and put it aside for this thread and received these "hostile" answers not from ideas of mine but stats I posted. Which aren't mine, and are slightier likely to be subjective than an article.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:27 am
by [KMA]Avenger
Legendary Apophis wrote:[KMA]Avenger wrote:@pops:
you seem to be taking this very personal (as usual
). this isn't an attack against you or your beliefs, so there is no reason for you to reply the way you do
It's not just your last post that led to it, but the overall of this topic, added to time I spent on it despite fact I had homework and put it aside for this thread and received these "hostile" answers not from ideas of mine but stats I posted. Which aren't mine, and are slightier likely to be subjective than an article.
[KMA]Avenger wrote:but let me ask you this pops...what the hell good do all those stats of yours do for Greece and her problems RIGHT NOW?
what should the EU say to Greece now..."dont worry mates, your country might be bankrupt and the unemployed % is going to get bigger BUT we have stats you can enjoy!"
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:45 am
by Legendary Apophis
[KMA]Avenger wrote:Legendary Apophis wrote:[KMA]Avenger wrote:@pops:
you seem to be taking this very personal (as usual
). this isn't an attack against you or your beliefs, so there is no reason for you to reply the way you do
It's not just your last post that led to it, but the overall of this topic, added to time I spent on it despite fact I had homework and put it aside for this thread and received these "hostile" answers not from ideas of mine but stats I posted. Which aren't mine, and are slightier likely to be subjective than an article.
[KMA]Avenger wrote:but let me ask you this pops...what the hell good do all those stats of yours do for Greece and her problems RIGHT NOW?
what should the EU say to Greece now..."dont worry mates, your country might be bankrupt and the unemployed % is going to get bigger BUT we have stats you can enjoy!"
I would say, the overall system is to blame, not just the EU.
Capitalism without control leads to chaos. Market is unperfect...capitalism with moderate control is required.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:39 pm
by Hitchkok
Legendary Apophis wrote:[KMA]Avenger wrote:Legendary Apophis wrote:[KMA]Avenger wrote:@pops:
you seem to be taking this very personal (as usual
). this isn't an attack against you or your beliefs, so there is no reason for you to reply the way you do
It's not just your last post that led to it, but the overall of this topic, added to time I spent on it despite fact I had homework and put it aside for this thread and received these "hostile" answers not from ideas of mine but stats I posted. Which aren't mine, and are slightier likely to be subjective than an article.
[KMA]Avenger wrote:but let me ask you this pops...what the hell good do all those stats of yours do for Greece and her problems RIGHT NOW?
what should the EU say to Greece now..."dont worry mates, your country might be bankrupt and the unemployed % is going to get bigger BUT we have stats you can enjoy!"
I would say, the overall system is to blame, not just the EU.
Capitalism without control leads to chaos. Market is unperfect...capitalism with moderate control is required.
you see, that's the point avanger is making, that the EU (particulary, the Euro) is taking away greece' options to control it's market.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:45 pm
by Brdavs
The problem with Greece is that they spent years falcifying reports etc. to cover up. It`s only normal that sheit hit the fan in a global crisis.
All in all the euro helped european countries quite a bit in this crisis.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:49 pm
by Legendary Apophis
Brdavs wrote:The problem with Greece is that they spent years falcifying reports etc. to cover up. It`s only normal that sheit hit the fan in a global crisis.
All in all the euro helped european countries quite a bit in this crisis.
Iceland considering more & more about knocking to our door might not be totally unrelated to that.
All the praise about nationality out of EU, leads countries' currencies to doom. Iceland being best example. Now they consider about joining EU.
So much about negative EU and all.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:29 pm
by [KMA]Avenger
Hitchkok wrote:you see, that's the point avanger is making, that the EU (particulary, the Euro) is taking away greece' options to control it's market.
thank you.
Brdavs wrote:The problem with Greece is that they spent years falcifying reports etc. to cover up. It`s only normal that sheit hit the fan in a global crisis.
All in all the euro helped european countries quite a bit in this crisis.
ok, for the last time, every country in the world is cooking the books and guilty of false accounting, so Greece is NOT an isolated example, the problem for Greece is the fact that the voters cannot change things or help the situation regardless of who they vote for. they may as well have the 3 monkeys in power!!!
because at the end of the day, all the options open to independent nations are closed for those inside the Euro.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:51 pm
by Brdavs
But nowhere to the extent they overstreatched themselves lol.
And you`re assuming that whatever fiscal policies greece could conduct would fare them better than the fiscal policy of the ECB.
Fact is that the Euro is immensly more stable that any single nation currency could be.
Christ, it`s what keeps greeks afloat. If they still had the drachma it would drop like a stone and that would quite possibly the straw that brakes the camels back for them. Like the 25% inflation helped to brake tha back of iceland.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:03 am
by [KMA]Avenger
i dont understand where you people are coming from. try and understand mate, Greece is bankrupt, it dont matter who is to blame and how much more they have "overstretched themselves" compared to other country's. the fact remains, none of that helps Greece at this point in time. and the fact also remains that they cannot do anything to improve the situation, even voting in someone who can fix the situation doesn't help them because no matter who comes to power, their hands are tied because they are a member of the EU.
and let me say this, if Greece does go under, next will be Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy THEN France and Germany (that's not me saying that, that's what TOP economists are ALL saying).
if it does happen the way economists are saying, then you can kiss your beloved European Union and its money goodbye, trouble is, it will drag down quite a few other currency's with it...the £ being 1 of them.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:07 am
by Legendary Apophis
[KMA]Avenger wrote:i dont understand where you people are coming from. try and understand mate, Greece is bankrupt, it dont matter who is to blame and how much more they have "overstretched themselves" compared to other country's. the fact remains, none of that helps Greece at this point in time. and the fact also remains that they cannot do anything to improve the situation, even voting in someone who can fix the situation doesn't help them because no matter who comes to power, their hands are tied because they are a member of the EU.
and let me say this, if Greece does go under, next will be Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy THEN France and Germany (that's not me saying that, that's what TOP economists are ALL saying).
if it does happen the way economists are saying, then you can kiss your beloved European Union and its money goodbye, trouble is, it will drag down quite a few other currency's with it...the £ being 1 of them.
Pessimistic economists of judgement day as I could call them, are always saying doom is coming. There's always pessimistics, optimistics, and the inbetween ones. The latter are only worth ones to listen to. The rest is deluded into their excessive point of views.
Re: will the EU collapse?
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:17 am
by [KMA]Avenger
again, i dont understand where you are coming from. these are the facts:
1, Greece is bankrupt.
2, Greece CANNOT break from the EU.
3, Because Greece cannot break away from the EU, they only have 2 options to resolve the situation...both of which will kill the EU.
4, the EU rules and regs FORBID bail-outs of nations.
5, doesn't matter who the voters vote for next, the new Govt will STILL be unable to do anything.
6, if Greece goes under, it will be a domino effect and spread to other nations.
7, if the EU breaks its rules and regs, which country's will bailout the Greeks knowing they wont be able to service the debt and pay back the money...your country pops??
8, you say the charts about growth dont lie, well then, tell me what good those numbers do for the Greeks in their current situation?
i can think of more but cant be arsed.
unrelated to Greece:
9, if the Euro is such a good currency, then why does it need £40 million pounds a day from England?!
10, every single Fiat currency (Fiat currency=currency backed by nothing) in history has collapsed...FACT!!!