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Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:12 am
by MEZZANINE
Leg Apophis wrote:MEZZANINE wrote:If despoiling some dusty old relic to build a base saves a single life, or even prevents a single injury to a US or UK soldier then its worth while.
Good example of someone who doesn't understand value of historical monuments.
Humans live how long? 70? 85? 115 years at most?
A monument however is a remaining of an older period, when it's gone, it's gone, we can witness a long gone past thanks to those. It can last millenia, and has much more importance in the absolute of global history than a single human life. Not to mention that if those monuments are damaged, it's like I said because GWB Junior wanted to finish dad's job along with some deep dislike based on former leader.
Well, it's quite hard to explain it to people who don't understand value of monuments and qualify them as "dusty old relic".
Ignorance is among us, and it's not meant to disappear before a long long time.
Just because something is very old, and was impressive in it's day does not give it value now, it certainly does NOT make it more valuable than a life.
I bet you would feel different if it was the life of a family member or friend of yours that was on the line. Would you really have your Father/Brother/Son sacrifice themselves to protect some rubble in a foreign land ?
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:16 am
by LegendaryA
MEZZANINE wrote:Leg Apophis wrote:MEZZANINE wrote:If despoiling some dusty old relic to build a base saves a single life, or even prevents a single injury to a US or UK soldier then its worth while.
Good example of someone who doesn't understand value of historical monuments.
Humans live how long? 70? 85? 115 years at most?
A monument however is a remaining of an older period, when it's gone, it's gone, we can witness a long gone past thanks to those. It can last millenia, and has much more importance in the absolute of global history than a single human life. Not to mention that if those monuments are damaged, it's like I said because GWB Junior wanted to finish dad's job along with some deep dislike based on former leader.
Well, it's quite hard to explain it to people who don't understand value of monuments and qualify them as "dusty old relic".
Ignorance is among us, and it's not meant to disappear before a long long time.
Just because something is very old, and was impressive in it's day does not give it value now, it certainly does NOT make it more valuable than a life.
I bet you would feel different if it was the life of a family member or friend of yours that was on the line. Would you really have your Father/Brother/Son sacrifice themselves to protect some rubble in a foreign land ?
And this monument was there long before us, and would remain long after us.
Who do we think we are to dare thinking we value more than what ancestors and civilisations origins built?
Quite arrogant, I'd say.
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:20 am
by MEZZANINE
Leg Apophis wrote:MEZZANINE wrote:Leg Apophis wrote:MEZZANINE wrote:If despoiling some dusty old relic to build a base saves a single life, or even prevents a single injury to a US or UK soldier then its worth while.
Good example of someone who doesn't understand value of historical monuments.
Humans live how long? 70? 85? 115 years at most?
A monument however is a remaining of an older period, when it's gone, it's gone, we can witness a long gone past thanks to those. It can last millenia, and has much more importance in the absolute of global history than a single human life. Not to mention that if those monuments are damaged, it's like I said because GWB Junior wanted to finish dad's job along with some deep dislike based on former leader.
Well, it's quite hard to explain it to people who don't understand value of monuments and qualify them as "dusty old relic".
Ignorance is among us, and it's not meant to disappear before a long long time.
Just because something is very old, and was impressive in it's day does not give it value now, it certainly does NOT make it more valuable than a life.
I bet you would feel different if it was the life of a family member or friend of yours that was on the line. Would you really have your Father/Brother/Son sacrifice themselves to protect some rubble in a foreign land ?
And this monument was there long before us, and would remain long after us.
Who do we think we are to dare thinking we value more than what ancestors and civilisations origins built?
Quite arrogant, I'd say.
I see you ignored my question so I'll repeat it
Would you really have your Father/Brother/Son sacrifice themselves to protect some rubble in a foreign land ?
If yes, then your priorities are questionable and Im glad not to be related to you. If no, you are a hypocrite
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:23 am
by LegendaryA
MEZZANINE wrote:Leg Apophis wrote:MEZZANINE wrote:Leg Apophis wrote:MEZZANINE wrote:If despoiling some dusty old relic to build a base saves a single life, or even prevents a single injury to a US or UK soldier then its worth while.
Good example of someone who doesn't understand value of historical monuments.
Humans live how long? 70? 85? 115 years at most?
A monument however is a remaining of an older period, when it's gone, it's gone, we can witness a long gone past thanks to those. It can last millenia, and has much more importance in the absolute of global history than a single human life. Not to mention that if those monuments are damaged, it's like I said because GWB Junior wanted to finish dad's job along with some deep dislike based on former leader.
Well, it's quite hard to explain it to people who don't understand value of monuments and qualify them as "dusty old relic".
Ignorance is among us, and it's not meant to disappear before a long long time.
Just because something is very old, and was impressive in it's day does not give it value now, it certainly does NOT make it more valuable than a life.
I bet you would feel different if it was the life of a family member or friend of yours that was on the line. Would you really have your Father/Brother/Son sacrifice themselves to protect some rubble in a foreign land ?
And this monument was there long before us, and would remain long after us.
Who do we think we are to dare thinking we value more than what ancestors and civilisations origins built?
Quite arrogant, I'd say.
I see you ignored my question so I'll repeat it
Would you really have your Father/Brother/Son sacrifice themselves to protect some rubble in a foreign land ?
If yes, then your priorities are questionable and Im glad not to be related to you. If no, you are a hypocrite
Convenient question I see, don't you get that I didn't answer it willingly?
Convenient questions are made as an ultimate mean to try to diabolize the other side to hope the victory by using cheap means.
Hardly observable in reality, such situations meant to derail's someone position to try to set a trap and see whether they would fall in.
I've been there, asked those kind of questions before, I know the purpose, don't worry.
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:03 am
by [KMA]Avenger
MEZZANINE wrote:If despoiling some dusty old relic to build a base saves a single life, or even prevents a single injury to a US or UK soldier then its worth while.
well, how very modern of you!
first off, no one is saying a human life is worth less than what its worth...having said that, how hypocritical is it of the west to invade a sovereign nation, destroy everything in sight, not to mention polluting the entire country with the use of DU ammunition killing upwards of 1.5 million of the civilian population, and then how liberating of us in the west to destroy ancient and historical sites, all under the pretext of removing a tyrant...a tyrant who was put in power by the western intelligence agencies and funded by the very same people who when it suited them...called him a tyrant and invaded his country!
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:16 am
by MEZZANINE
Leg Apophis wrote:MEZZANINE wrote:Leg Apophis wrote:MEZZANINE wrote:Leg Apophis wrote:MEZZANINE wrote:If despoiling some dusty old relic to build a base saves a single life, or even prevents a single injury to a US or UK soldier then its worth while.
Good example of someone who doesn't understand value of historical monuments.
Humans live how long? 70? 85? 115 years at most?
A monument however is a remaining of an older period, when it's gone, it's gone, we can witness a long gone past thanks to those. It can last millenia, and has much more importance in the absolute of global history than a single human life. Not to mention that if those monuments are damaged, it's like I said because GWB Junior wanted to finish dad's job along with some deep dislike based on former leader.
Well, it's quite hard to explain it to people who don't understand value of monuments and qualify them as "dusty old relic".
Ignorance is among us, and it's not meant to disappear before a long long time.
Just because something is very old, and was impressive in it's day does not give it value now, it certainly does NOT make it more valuable than a life.
I bet you would feel different if it was the life of a family member or friend of yours that was on the line. Would you really have your Father/Brother/Son sacrifice themselves to protect some rubble in a foreign land ?
And this monument was there long before us, and would remain long after us.
Who do we think we are to dare thinking we value more than what ancestors and civilisations origins built?
Quite arrogant, I'd say.
I see you ignored my question so I'll repeat it
Would you really have your Father/Brother/Son sacrifice themselves to protect some rubble in a foreign land ?
If yes, then your priorities are questionable and Im glad not to be related to you. If no, you are a hypocrite
Convenient question I see, don't you get that I didn't answer it willingly?
Convenient questions are made as an ultimate mean to try to diabolize the other side to hope the victory by using cheap means.
Hardly observable in reality, such situations meant to derail's someone position to try to set a trap and see whether they would fall in.
I've been there, asked those kind of questions before, I know the purpose, don't worry.
It's a perfectly valid question, you said this 'monument' is more valuable than a life, does that just mean the life of some anonymous soldier, a name and rank in the news, or do you actually believe it enough to say it's worth more than the life of someone you care about ? Because that anonymous soldier will have people who care about him/her too.
[KMA]Avenger wrote:MEZZANINE wrote:If despoiling some dusty old relic to build a base saves a single life, or even prevents a single injury to a US or UK soldier then its worth while.
well, how very modern of you!
first off, no one is saying a human life is worth less than what its worth...having said that, how hypocritical is it of the west to invade a sovereign nation, destroy everything in sight, not to mention polluting the entire country with the use of DU ammunition killing upwards of 1.5 million of the civilian population, and then how liberating of us in the west to destroy ancient and historical sites, all under the pretext of removing a tyrant...a tyrant who was put in power by the western intelligence agencies and funded by the very same people who when it suited them...called him a tyrant and invaded his country!
Well I dont think there is anything 'modern' about valuing life over property.
I thought this thread was about despoiling the Hanging Gardens for the protection of our soldiers. The hypocrisy of politics & money and discussion of the methods used to shape the world to anyones vision of what it should be is a much broader subject in which we see human nature at it's worst.
If you want to write a book on mans inhumanity to his fellow man go right ahead, it will several volumes long and will not fit in a forum post
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:28 am
by [KMA]Avenger
did you even bother reading the reports?
this has nothing to do with safeguarding peoples lives, but it has everything to do with safeguarding historical sites:
"A military official said she had not seen the U.N. report, but added that one of the reasons troops set up a base at the site was to safeguard it."
methinks the world needs safeguarding from uneducated and stupid troops!
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:42 am
by MEZZANINE
[KMA]Avenger wrote:did you even bother reading the reports?
this has nothing to do with safeguarding peoples lives, but it has everything to do with safeguarding historical sites:
"A military official said she had not seen the U.N. report, but added that one of the reasons troops set up a base at the site was to safeguard it."
methinks the world needs safeguarding from uneducated and stupid troops!
The report I heard said they 'modified' some parts of the site to make it secure.
As for 'uneducated and stupid troops', soldiers tend to come from the poorest part of society and in many cases signing up is the only way out of poverty. It's all very easy for people living comfortably to critisise and have high ideals, but for the men on the ground priorities are far simpler, stay alive, and keep you mates alive long enough to get home to the better life they were led to believe serving would earn for them.
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:53 am
by RepliMagni
Was it necessary for them to build a base on a world heritage site? Its a pretty big country.....surely a large area without all those dusty old relics in the way would have been a more appropriate place for a modern military base?
The troops and their contractors caused "major damage" by digging, cutting, scraping and leveling while they were revamping the site to meet military standards, the U.N. cultural agency, UNESCO, said in a report.
If they were there to protect it, its more than a little bit hypocritical to then cause major damage to the place.
I understand where you're coming from Mezz, and if the place was accidently hit during a firefight, or bombing I'd understand, but this was a planned military base.....how did having it there save anyone's life? How would having it five hundred yards down the road have endangered anyone's life?
This isn't a matter of some grunt on the ground damaging artifacts, but of neglect much higher up the food chain.....
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:14 pm
by LegendaryA
MEZZANINE wrote:As for 'uneducated and stupid troops', soldiers tend to come from the poorest part of society and in many cases signing up is the only way out of poverty. It's all very easy for people living comfortably to critisise and have high ideals, but for the men on the ground priorities are far simpler, stay alive, and keep you mates alive long enough to get home to the better life they were led to believe serving would earn for them.
Unlike what you seem to induce, not everyone who criticizes those people's behaviour happen to live in "ivory towers" but infact come from same background as them, and for this very reason, tend to be more strict regarding those people's behaviour, and what potential excuses could be given to them. It's like silly excuses given for young thugs from suburbs, some people who had their childhood as hard if not harder than those troublemakers and yet abide by the rules and behave correctly on day to day basis, don't miss opportunity to show that these parasites don't deserve any excuses and that they are plain guilty of their acts.
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:18 pm
by Brdavs
Well I would have thought one would save lives by not exposing them to danger as opposed to demolishing monuments but hey... I can see the logic of a life > material.
They should have tore the statue of liberty down after people went jumping off the crown. Simply isnt worht it having it up knowing its responsible for the loss of lives it cuased.
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:28 pm
by LegendaryA
Brdavs wrote:They should have tore the statue of liberty down after people went jumping off the crown. Simply isnt worht it having it up knowing its responsible for the loss of lives it cuased.
I hope it's sarcasm or something like that, right?
Otherwise, most of the towers/high buildings in my nation (and probably many other nations US included as well) should have been destroyed due to losses/potential losses.
I would have branded it as utter stupidity if they were to destroy a building due to some suicidal people who felt like having an Icarus moment.
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:33 pm
by RepliMagni
Leg Apophis wrote:Brdavs wrote:They should have tore the statue of liberty down after people went jumping off the crown. Simply isnt worht it having it up knowing its responsible for the loss of lives it cuased.
I hope it's sarcasm or something like that, right?
Otherwise, most of the towers/high buildings in my nation (and probably many other nations US included as well) should have been destroyed due to losses/potential losses.
I would have branded it as utter stupidity if they were to destroy a building due to some suicidal people who felt like having an Icarus moment.
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:36 pm
by LegendaryA
Well, first step is already done, many towers are now forbidden to access the top due to the Icarus squads.
I experienced it myself when I went visiting one of those, they said the top floor was forbidden due to risk (probable suiciders).
What do I care about the Icarus ones if I want to visit top floor of a tower? What if there's a bit of risk?
I know that a great part of suicides are "suicides", but oh well..
I will blame Brdavs if they decide to take it to next step to have given them the idea!
Re: how sad :(
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:54 pm
by Brdavs
And its somehow a better idea to park a military base on a historic sight & dig trenches etc. cos "it might save a life of a serviceman"?
lol
Lets just be honest, we just dont care about those piles of rubble in the fertile triangle, cradle of civilization or not.
But hell hath no fury like the fury we have if our preccious symbols 1/100th the age of the above mentioned are threathened.
Ergo why every apocalypse feature flick needs to feature the head of lady liberty floating away under watter at the very minimum. Doesnt strike home otherwise.
Wonder what the reaction would be if they chopped off the top half of mt.rushmore to place machinegun nests on top.