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Im Welsh not Scottish but there are similarities, relatively small populations spread out with lots of the unusable land. The more spread out a national infrastructure ( transport, power, water, sewage, medical/police services etc ) is more the more it costs to run and maintain.

If Scotland went for independence 20 years ago and kept the rights to the majority of North Sea oil & gas it could have been a viable even wealthy independent economy just like if Wales would have been if it had independence 100 years ago in its coal and steel boom. But today both countries dont have the exploitable resources to maintain there own infrastructure and quality of life, Wales and Scotland are essential subsidised countries and their only choices are

1) Be a subsidised nation within the UK

2) Be a subsidised state within a federal EU

3) Be truly independent and see infrastructure crumble when it cant be maintained and services they take for granted end due to lack of funds



The leader of the SNP several years ago held up Ireland and Iceland as examples of how Scotland could thrive independently, look what happened to them when the bubble burst. If he had had his way back then Scotland would be bankrupt by now and the rest of the UK and EU would be bailing them out creating huge national debt they could never repay.

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Kit-Fox wrote:There are similarities between the Scottish situation & the Welsh yes but at least the Welsh didnt beg twice for the English to rule them.

The English gave the Welsh no choice whatsoever we forced our way into Wales & took what we wanted when we wanted at the point of a sword, so at least the Welsh have more of a reason for indepenance.

yet u are confirming what smone said bout u , pls save us the blood story of the sword.

Kit-Fox wrote:There are similarities between the Scottish situation & the Welsh yes but at least the Welsh didnt beg twice for the English to rule them.

The English gave the Welsh no choice whatsoever we forced our way into Wales & took what we wanted when we wanted at the point of a sword, so at least the Welsh have more of a reason for indepenance.

You sound like one of these football supporters saying 'we won' when the only thing they had to do with winning was buying a t-shirt and shouting at the TV. You werent there so there is no 'we'

Wales was conquered by shear force of numbers same as Scotland again down to geography, England is mostly flat, lots of good farmland able to support a larger population, Wales & Scotland being mountainous are sparsely populated and harder for the population to move around.


Regardless of how the UK became a single nation breaking it up over wars that happened several generations ago when the people have moved around and inter-bread so much that very few are truly Welsh or Scottish or English, and most including me are just British now is insane.

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Kit-Fox wrote:Point i'm making Mezz is that its the history which is fuelling all of these independance movements and people need to understand this as it also underpins all the hatred etc that exists in the UK between its peoples.

On that I agree with you

Kit-Fox wrote:Personally imo we should only have one parliment for the lot and it should be centrally placed rather than in London. Each parrt of the UK should have equal representation there too. We have the ability to rule fairly for the entire nation like that & we should

I think London is the natural choice and is where the UK capital should remain, and equal representation for each region would be unbalanced in favor of the minority, proportional representation is fairer imo

Kit-Fox wrote:There are similarities between the Scottish situation & the Welsh yes but at least the Welsh didnt beg twice for the English to rule them.

The English gave the Welsh no choice whatsoever we forced our way into Wales & took what we wanted when we wanted at the point of a sword, so at least the Welsh have more of a reason for indepenance.

are you serious

its people like you who should be kicked out of the uk

we are a nation a proud nation who has fought and won many wars

your a single minded idiot who should not be in this great nation

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I say no to independence for either Scotland or Wales; both as a Conservative/Unionist and as a Welshman.

An independent Scotland isn't as impossible or unworkable as some people would have you believe. It would, however, come at a high price. At the moment, the Scottish Parliament has the power to spend money, but not to raise it. They get a block grant from Westminster.

Those who favour independence would argue that the tax take from Scotland exceeds the block grant, and thus Scotland would be better off with fiscal autonomy and independence. However, this is not the case. Nobody has thought to question how much of the United Kingdom's national debt would be attributable to Scotland. Given the downgrade of Greek and other sovereign debt, it seems likely that the finances of an independent Scotland, even if they weren't shackled with a lot of the debt from the Union, would support a BBB rating at best.

A look at the Scot Exec’s books reveals that ‘education, health and social work’ account for more economic activity than all manufacturing output combined and additional collectively financed public sector activity is trans-national. That is, UK government functions and services provided in pursuance of UK and exclusively English legislation.

Then drill down for the natural resources and ‘our oil’. Firstly, the UK Scottish Adjacent Waters Act stitched up the distribution of territorial waters in Scotland’s favour rather than geographic logic. The distribution of significant remaining gas reserves is East Anglian and oil shale deposits are overwhelmingly English.

That being said, Scottish independence would not be possible. It would be difficult, though. Taxes would have to rise, and some 'perks' might have to be cut. For a country which has gotten used to free prescriptions and free university for all, that might come as a bitter pill to swallow.

And in the case of an independent Wales?

Even worse.

And my apologies for a double post, but the greatest irony of the whole situation is that the leaders of contemporary separatist parties seek to present independence as a great crusade to shackles themselves from English oppressors who are cutting public expenditure and raising taxation; oblivious to the fact that the pursuit of independence would force them to do the same. At the moment, ironically, they are protected from the brunt of it it to an extent through devolution.

My apologies.

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If Scotland had the wealth of Aberdeen and "our" fair share of the Northsea oil, round our borders.

We would be fine.

Also Id like to add "FREEDOM"