Discussion on Update Policy

[noone]

It would be nice, that, instead of certain mods and high profile members burning this idea pre emptively, giving it a bad odeur to whoever reads it.

That some other members can give feedback without feeling like being critised to hell.

If you do not want everyone's opinion, do not participate in a discussion posted on the community board. The point of this forum is to get everyone's feedback. I believe I count as part of that everyone. As do all people in this game.

I didnt say I didnt want the opinion, just mentioned its annoying being burned from the get go by people with a lot of influence.

Forum discussion is better in every way but one, Admin dont read the bloody forum and thinks the few who attend his meetings represent the majority, NOT SO !!

That statement alone implies you have never spoken to admin on IRC. *chuckles* Just a single convo with him and you know better. Jason isn't stupid. Whining people? Focus your attention on getting to IRC instead of crying about how unfair it is that admin doesn't listen to you when you're not talking to HIM but blabbering in empty space.

So, we are whiners ? you chuckle about us, nicce of you of making fun of other members in this community you do not agree with. What is your position here again ?

You lady, are rude and impolite !

[noone]

sorry double post

[RoKeT]

ya know, he is a pretty modest guy, and listens to you when you talk to him, IDK why more people haven't just gone on the chat xD, people talk like he hates the game but he takes like an hour out of his week every week to be on there for the most part xD... Unless thats changed as well xD

[Cole]

ya know, he is a pretty modest guy, and listens to you when you talk to him, IDK why more people haven't just gone on the chat xD, people talk like he hates the game but he takes like an hour out of his week every week to be on there for the most part xD...

Yes, that's true.

[Juliette]

It would be nice, that, instead of certain mods and high profile members burning this idea pre emptively, giving it a bad odeur to whoever reads it.

That some other members can give feedback without feeling like being critised to hell.

If you do not want everyone's opinion, do not participate in a discussion posted on the community board. The point of this forum is to get everyone's feedback. I believe I count as part of that everyone. As do all people in this game.

I didnt say I didnt want the opinion, just mentioned its annoying being burned from the get go by people with a lot of influence.

A bad idea is a bad idea regardless of who comes up with it. Yes, this idea was posted by a moderator.. what does that have to do with anything? Trying to derail the conversation, are we? Guess we're done talking, then.

Want to talk to admin, go to IRC. I think there is a song with those lyrics in Fallout.

ya know, he is a pretty modest guy, and listens to you when you talk to him, IDK why more people haven't just gone on the chat xD, people talk like he hates the game but he takes like an hour out of his week every week to be on there for the most part xD... Unless thats changed as well xD

Nope, that's Jason. Glad to have your opinion, Rok.

[RoKeT]

What is your position here again ?

Her position here is being the coolest mod in the world so fall back or i'll bite your nano

[Juliette]

Forum discussion is better in every way but one, Admin dont read the bloody forum and thinks the few who attend his meetings represent the majority, NOT SO !!

That statement alone implies you have never spoken to admin on IRC. *chuckles* Just a single convo with him and you know better. Jason isn't stupid. Whining people? Focus your attention on getting to IRC instead of crying about how unfair it is that admin doesn't listen to you when you're not talking to HIM but blabbering in empty space.

So, we are whiners ? you chuckle about us, nicce of you of making fun of other members in this community you do not agree with.

About you? No.. you guys care enough to show up and express your opinions. It is like talking to a tree to get the squirrel to come down, though. Jason can be found on IRC. He is not here until someone calls him.

What is your position here again ?

My position here? Irrelevant. You requested game user opinions. And you get those. Like them, or not. If you want, I can drop the colour to show you?

You lady, are rude and impolite !

Thank you. So glad you can handle an opposing opinion with such excellent arguments. I applaud you.

[noone]

The idea to have a second look at the secondary communication offered, the forum, wouldnt be a bad idea.

It would merely be:

Community going over updates.
Committe of mods going over and filtering content.
Committe creating polls for public opinion on updates.
Committe setting viable suggestion proposed by members and polled in a hidden section.

Then admin can read those topics.

EDIT: admin could give feedback in the topics about it being possible and propose launch dates for it, mods can communicate this to the forum.

This would result in far better topics and approaches in my opinion.

I cant understand why there is no room for discussion on that !

[Cole]

There's one problem with IRC though. Either not enough people come, and anything can be passed by those around, BUT the present ones have more easiness to talk with admin, as there aren't tons of people posting. Or, when there is a significant amount of people, to talk about whatever is on the suggestions/demands/fixes to be done, there's the problem for admin to catch what everyone said, and it goes the same way MSN convos do, as everyone talks about whatever they want, and it's a big mess in the end!
That's why "activity" (many) and "inactivity" (few) both have their pros and cons in IRC.

[Juliette]

The idea to have a second look at the secondary communication offered, the forum, wouldnt be a bad idea.

It wouldn't? It is not a bad idea. It is an old idea. It is an idea which has been suggested to admin since he withdrew from the hostility and lack of focus of the forums.

It would merely be:

Community going over updates.
Committe of mods going over and filtering content.
Committe creating polls for public opinion on updates.
Committe setting viable suggestion proposed by members and polled in a hidden section.

Then admin can read those topics.

EDIT: admin could give feedback in the topics about it being possible and propose launch dates for it, mods can communicate this to the forum.

This would result in far better topics and approaches in my opinion.

I cant understand why there is no room for discussion on that !

Committee? Bad idea. Committees suck. Has been tried before, and failed miserably. This is not a democracy.
You have your channels to contact the Business Administration; use them. E-mail them, asking to come to the forums if you cannot contain your youthful enthusiasm.

There's one problem with IRC though. Either not enough people come, and anything can be passed by those around, BUT the present ones have more easiness to talk with admin, as there aren't tons of people posting. Or, when there is a significant amount of people, to talk about whatever is on the suggestions/demands/fixes to be done, there's the problem for admin to catch what everyone said, and it goes the same way MSN convos do, as everyone talks about whatever they want, and it's a big mess in the end!
That's why "activity" (many) and "inactivity" (few) both have their pros and cons in IRC.

Channels can be muted. Users can be given voice one by one, or in batches. But nooo.. we MUST be heard. ALWAYS. Immature. Impractical. Pointless to argue. Have fun ruining the one sure channel of access to admin we have.

[Cole]

There's one problem with IRC though. Either not enough people come, and anything can be passed by those around, BUT the present ones have more easiness to talk with admin, as there aren't tons of people posting. Or, when there is a significant amount of people, to talk about whatever is on the suggestions/demands/fixes to be done, there's the problem for admin to catch what everyone said, and it goes the same way MSN convos do, as everyone talks about whatever they want, and it's a big mess in the end!
That's why "activity" (many) and "inactivity" (few) both have their pros and cons in IRC.

Channels can be muted. Users can be given voice one by one, or in batches. But nooo.. we MUST be heard. ALWAYS. Immature. Impractical. Pointless to argue. Have fun ruining the one sure channel of access to admin we have.

Don't include me in that lot thank you.

-I never said Jason doesn't listen or reply
-I never said we must be heard always or whatever
-I never said IRC should be changed to something else
-I actually disagree with many points given by those who want to change the system.

My only point was that there's a lack of discipline in IRC, and that post of mine was actually addressed at the people who are too eager to post in the IRC; because fine to mute them, but it would be better if there wasn't to do so and people acted so by themselves, discipline, organize the convo and parties speak when they have to, that was what I was going to add, but now I don't want to say anything more on the matter.

[noone]

With the reactions and hostility you present julliette, that is as how I feel it coming accross, I can imagine other people becomming hostile too.

The way I proposed would avoid Admin even coming in contact with the suggestion threads and the forum community, and he could read the topics in his own times when he feels like it.
He could always still attend the Admin meetings.


BTW, have you read the IRC logs recently .... ???
I'm staying away from the actual meetings cos I already had problems making heads nor tails who was being adressed by who and who was reacting to what. Pretty confusing and frustrating.

[RepliMagni]

The problem with forum discussion is that every thread will get to 20 pages long without everybody agreeing on what is best - it will also have much flaming, and conflict between various factions.

That is why Jason prefers IRC - he gets a nice concise post telling him what's wrong - if a few other people chorus in the same thing, then he changes it. The problem with IRC is that a few people can become very influential - esp. since Jason does not understand the game mechanics. Don't get me wrong, he tries, he truly does. But he just does not understand the full ramifications of his updates. And nor does IRC give him time to understand them because he never hears the other side of the story.

For all the problems of the forums, they allow for debate, for honest (and sometime biased) appraisals of a potential new update. Heck, we have several sections devoted to game suggestions, to potential updates and to new updates. Seems ridiculous to bypass that completely....

[stuff of legends]

I don't really care who suggests what to him or if its done in a private chat or an email, but if he chooses to implement that suggestion he should at least give us two-three days of warning and discussion, except if its a bug fix.

[Tekki]

The problem with forum discussion is that every thread will get to 20 pages long without everybody agreeing on what is best - it will also have much flaming, and conflict between various factions.

That is why Jason prefers IRC - he gets a nice concise post telling him what's wrong - if a few other people chorus in the same thing, then he changes it. The problem with IRC is that a few people can become very influential - esp. since Jason does not understand the game mechanics. Don't get me wrong, he tries, he truly does. But he just does not understand the full ramifications of his updates. And nor does IRC give him time to understand them because he never hears the other side of the story.

For all the problems of the forums, they allow for debate, for honest (and sometime biased) appraisals of a potential new update. Heck, we have several sections devoted to game suggestions, to potential updates and to new updates. Seems ridiculous to bypass that completely....

And that is what has been happening. Conversation in the general thread of the IRC chat is one thing but there has also been a lot of discussion gonig on in private. Or there's a lot of things Admin J is implementing from seeming no where.

I don't think there should be a set and rigid policy (too hard to put in place for all situations) but there definitely does need to be 2-3 dayss minimum, warning and discussion on the things that sometimes are seen as minor changes becuase minor changes aren't always that. They have pretty big ramifications at times.