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COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:14 am
by jedi~tank
renegadze wrote:RepliMagni wrote:Guild wrote:yeah its not a bug... some guys in OE used this and got their own members to do lots of failed sabs to compensate for low cov levels whilst ascending, which i supose is fair enough for people with low cov levels and gives them a chance agains the mega ones.
Failed sabs don't work. But successful ones do, no matter how few weps they get
For earlier debates:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=180120Although I must say, I find it strange that everyone wants to increase the power of sabotage further...
It needs to either:
1) Allow much more sabbing per turn change. Atm, after covert phasing, I think it only allows 1 sab per turn change for a good 2-3 turns afterwards. Perhaps get this moved up more towards 5?
2) Covert phasing affected by total wep points sabbed. Atm, someone can sab you for 10 weps per sab 50 times and then you're safe to build whatever strike you want. Perhaps make it so that the phasing works per wep point sabbed (ie: you build loads more weps the next turn, you unphase because you've got way more weps)
3) Something else....perhaps have it so when you attack you become unphased after a certain amount of ATs used....or maybe lose 1 turn's phasing per 100ATs used, etc.
But I will say, any of the above make sabotage much more powerful....something I thought a lot of people were wary about....
Changing the sab is a terrible idea.....yes it's annoying, and I get just as frustrated as anyone...but sabbing is very powerful if done right, so why allow $$ spenders another advantage by increasing the amount of sabs?
Make the mass phase and covert phase 1, make them null on auto war. Thats simple and easy. And stop whining about $$ spenders.
No insults please..
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:17 am
by Rocky
Juliette wrote:Good suggestion, Repli..
But I would agree that sab is already too powerful.
RepliMagni wrote:Failed sabs don't work. But successful ones do, no matter how few weps they get
For earlier debates:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=180120Although I must say, I find it strange that everyone wants to increase the power of sabotage further...
It needs to either:
1) Allow much more sabbing per turn change. Atm, after covert phasing, I think it only allows 1 sab per turn change for a good 2-3 turns afterwards. Perhaps get this moved up more towards 5?
2) Covert phasing affected by total wep points sabbed. Atm, someone can sab you for 10 weps per sab 50 times and then you're safe to build whatever strike you want. Perhaps make it so that the phasing works per wep point sabbed (ie: you build loads more weps the next turn, you unphase because you've got way more weps)
3) Something else....perhaps have it so when you attack you become unphased after a certain amount of ATs used....or maybe lose 1 turn's phasing per 100ATs used, etc.
But I will say, any of the above make sabotage much more powerful....something I thought a lot of people were wary about....
Just shouldn't be able to attack while phased.
well you have to reset when you hit soemoen after being phased from a massing, why not make it so you have to reset it if you want to sab or use covert units?
edit: i mean reset the covert phase somehow make that possible...
i also agree sabbing is powerful enough, if not too powerful.
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:21 am
by RepliMagni
Jedi~Tank wrote:Make the mass phase and covert phase 1, make them null on auto war. Thats simple and easy. And stop whining about $$ spenders. yo momma is tops in the game on that go whine to her.
I'm probably not understanding ya here mate.....So you only covert phase when someone has what? Sabbed you (of max 1,875 loses in turns) 1,875 times?
Plus the idea of negating covert phasing on autowar is ridiculous - it would make it IMPOSSIBLE for someone with a lower covert (and obviously a reasonable def) to hit mass someone with a larger covert - as soon as they get on, everything in your realm would disappear.
It would make the few c39s in this game (and I guess the c38s) even more powerful than now....
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:21 am
by renegadze
Jedi~Tank wrote:renegadze wrote:RepliMagni wrote:Guild wrote:yeah its not a bug... some guys in OE used this and got their own members to do lots of failed sabs to compensate for low cov levels whilst ascending, which i supose is fair enough for people with low cov levels and gives them a chance agains the mega ones.
Failed sabs don't work. But successful ones do, no matter how few weps they get
For earlier debates:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=180120Although I must say, I find it strange that everyone wants to increase the power of sabotage further...
It needs to either:
1) Allow much more sabbing per turn change. Atm, after covert phasing, I think it only allows 1 sab per turn change for a good 2-3 turns afterwards. Perhaps get this moved up more towards 5?
2) Covert phasing affected by total wep points sabbed. Atm, someone can sab you for 10 weps per sab 50 times and then you're safe to build whatever strike you want. Perhaps make it so that the phasing works per wep point sabbed (ie: you build loads more weps the next turn, you unphase because you've got way more weps)
3) Something else....perhaps have it so when you attack you become unphased after a certain amount of ATs used....or maybe lose 1 turn's phasing per 100ATs used, etc.
But I will say, any of the above make sabotage much more powerful....something I thought a lot of people were wary about....
Changing the sab is a terrible idea.....yes it's annoying, and I get just as frustrated as anyone...but sabbing is very powerful if done right, so why allow $$ spenders another advantage by increasing the amount of sabs?
Make the mass phase and covert phase 1, make them null on auto war. Thats simple and easy. And stop whining about $$ spenders. yo momma is tops in the game on that go whine to her.
We can't all afford to buy in excess of 300mil UU whenever we want.....oh wait lets have you sab us all.....not worry about the cost.....rebuy them all, and go again
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:25 am
by Juliette
Rocky wrote:Juliette wrote:Good suggestion, Repli..
But I would agree that sab is already too powerful.
Just shouldn't be able to attack while phased.
well you have to reset when you hit soemoen after being phased from a massing, why not make it so you have to reset it if you want to sab or use covert units?
i also agree sabbing is powerful enough, if not too powerful.
That is a good suggestion. Not too intrusive, but rather subtle.
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:29 am
by Nikola Tesla
Jedi~Tank wrote:I have a 16tril strike, 200b defense, 0 covert and am covert phased, and my opponent cannot do anything to touch my weapons. This bug needs to be fixed because I do not feel it is proper for me or anyone else to play exploiting this feature.
it's been like this for years!
anyone who has not noticed this before simply was not playing a game i'm sorry.
no bugs there and no changing needed.
if C39's want to remove C phase i'll try to make it to admin meet to express my humble opinion that it could be wortht update since planets.
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:38 am
by Iƒrit
covert phasing is about the ONLY thing that gives low covert levels a fighting chance. DO NOT change this, talk about pure game domination for anyone who can afford high Coverts, especially the ones with medium to large disposable income(s) ($$ that is). There is no need to change what works and has worked for years. Sabbing is already strong enough, it needs less of an advantage then it currently has before you even consider changing covert-phasing.
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:42 am
by jedi~tank
Iƒrit wrote:covert phasing is about the ONLY thing that gives low covert levels a fighting chance. DO NOT change this, talk about pure game domination for anyone who can afford high Coverts, especially the ones with medium to large disposable income(s) ($$ that is). There is no need to change what works and has worked for years. Sabbing is already strong enough, it needs less of an advantage then it currently has before you even consider changing covert-phasing.
Its not being used by little people Ifrit, its being exploited by $$ spenders DUHH, cmon now.
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:47 am
by RepliMagni
Jedi~Tank wrote:Its not being used by little people Ifrit, its being exploited by $$ spenders DUHH, cmon now.
But you need to come up with a feasible way of changing it. What you suggested would overpower covert ridiculously....
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:49 am
by deni
Eärendil wrote:
What they said. If your phased you can't do anything. If you try to attack, it gets fully reset.
I like that
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:51 am
by RepliMagni
deni wrote:Eärendil wrote:
What they said. If your phased you can't do anything. If you try to attack, it gets fully reset.
I like that
I don't think it should fully reset - perhaps make it proportional to the amount of ATs used:
ie: 100ATs used takes of 1 sab's worth of covert phasing, etc
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:52 am
by xDaku
Jedi~Tank wrote:Iƒrit wrote:covert phasing is about the ONLY thing that gives low covert levels a fighting chance. DO NOT change this, talk about pure game domination for anyone who can afford high Coverts, especially the ones with medium to large disposable income(s) ($$ that is). There is no need to change what works and has worked for years. Sabbing is already strong enough, it needs less of an advantage then it currently has before you even consider changing covert-phasing.
Its not being used by little people Ifrit, its being exploited by $$ spenders DUHH, cmon now.
I've used it, and I'm only a cov 36. Anyone with a low covert going for a decent def uses it. Why? Because otherwise it's too easy for the co 38/39s to come in and take everything in a matter of seconds.
I don't think it needs changing. Yes it can be exploited by the higher covert levels, but guess what. Their sabotages are already strong enough. Changing covert phase while sabs are as strong as they are now would only make those higher covert levels strong, and while the current covert phase is far from perfect, atleast it gives the small covert levels who can't afford cov 38/39 quick enough a chance to enjoy the little bit of massing that's left in this game.
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:54 am
by Iƒrit
Jedi~Tank wrote:Iƒrit wrote:covert phasing is about the ONLY thing that gives low covert levels a fighting chance. DO NOT change this, talk about pure game domination for anyone who can afford high Coverts, especially the ones with medium to large disposable income(s) ($$ that is). There is no need to change what works and has worked for years. Sabbing is already strong enough, it needs less of an advantage then it currently has before you even consider changing covert-phasing.
Its not being used by little people Ifrit, its being exploited by $$ spenders DUHH, cmon now.
right and if you remove it then little people cant use it at all, and then the separation between large and small would become even larger.
It is very much a 'fair' feature cause, no matter what size you are or if you are a free to play or a cash spender you can utilize this and have a chance to get reprisal on large covert levels that would or wouldn't overwhelm you. Every action has a equal or more powerful reaction
Its one feature that makes bullies think twice
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:11 pm
by Rocky
RepliMagni wrote:deni wrote:Eärendil wrote:
What they said. If your phased you can't do anything. If you try to attack, it gets fully reset.
I like that
I don't think it should fully reset - perhaps make it proportional to the amount of ATs used:
ie: 100ATs used takes of 1 sab's worth of covert phasing, etc
no what i meant was, why not keep sabotage and massing phases different, like they are now, except have it so that your covert phase resets when you spy or sab. just like your normal phases resets when you attack.
that way, covert phase, restricts you sabbing and spying, just like normal phase, restricts you from attacking.
Re: COVERT PHASE
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:27 pm
by deni
That would not solve the original problem - that once someone is phased out, he can go on a massing spree with an "untouchable" attack
