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didnt read the article but its was on news that that independent observer had its laptop sequestered , also that they were getting funds from US and EU which says all of their observing scope. its known russia doesnt have a democracy but which big country have it?

Lithium wrote: its known russia doesnt have a democracy but which big country have it?

India (yes corruption among politicians, caused/causes demonstrations, I know)
Japan
United States
Brazil
Germany
France
Argentina
Spain
Italy (well one can argue that Mario Monti is not legitimate new PM...)
UK
Australia
Canada
...

I would be tempted to say Mexico but considering the mayhem caused by gangs and drug related issues and corruption at a giant scale, I wouldn't list it.

Legendary Apophis wrote:

Lithium wrote: its known russia doesnt have a democracy but which big country have it?

India (yes corruption among politicians, caused/causes demonstrations, I know) - Remnants of the Caste System allow for 'democracy' on such a scale. People simply listen. Not an actual democracy.
Japan - Culturally incapable of being an actual democracy due to the inherent inequality in the society. See India.
United States - Illusion of democracy; having a choice between 2 shades of gray is not a choice. No actual democracy.
Brazil - Yes. This nation is a democracy.
Germany - Yes. This nation is a democracy
France - Popularity contest funded by the Industry and Establishment. Not an actual democracy, since you exclude certain French citizens from participation.
Argentina - Yes. This is a democracy. Anti-reaction to military junta; but a democracy nonetheless.
Spain - This is not a democracy. Spain as a nation is illegitimate in its current form.
Italy (well one can argue that Mario Monti is not legitimate new PM...) - Technocracy; formerly a democracy, now taken over by Industry and Establishment.
UK - Illusion of democracy; see USA.
Australia - Technocracy; politically under control of mining corporations and interest groups.
Canada - Yes. This might be a democracy.
...

I would be tempted to say Mexico but considering the mayhem caused by gangs and drug related issues and corruption at a giant scale, I wouldn't list it.

You obviously have no idea what a democracy is. And don't quote me the dictionary; you know as well as I do that the states you listed are mostly fraudulent nations.

France - Popularity contest funded by the Industry and Establishment. Not an actual democracy, since you exclude certain French citizens from participation.

And who would those be? As far as I know the lift of right to vote after having been to jail disappears after a set of years. There are no French citizens excluded to participate except those who went to jail, but that doesn't last a big while, I know of people who went to jail in past, and are now able to vote without any problem. However, other nations considered as democracy have that too. I don't know if it's still in place though...

you know as well as I do that the states you listed are mostly fraudulent nations.

Well, Brazil, Argentina, India and Italy are the nations that are considered to be rather corrupt nations. However, if you mean fraud in elections, I don't think any of the ones I listed practice it. I don't know for Argentina and Australia, but the others I'm almost sure they cannot be considered as fraudulent (not saying totally clean, but not particular examples to define what a fraudulent in elections nation could be). United States, with Florida issue during Gore/GWB election, I would prefer to avoid taking a stance on their case.

You obviously have no idea what a democracy is.

I do know what is a democracy. I just felt like I would use a large definition, not a 'strict' one (tending towards the utopian definition). Because I do know I would have been accused of ignorance of choices anyway. Claiming 'you are ignorant regarding/don't know what a democracy really is' is a commonly used argument in debates about democracy I witnessed, simply because -I think- people have different definitions about what democracy is (or should be).

Spain - This is not a democracy. Spain as a nation is illegitimate in its current form.

I disagree, Spain is a democracy, there is no such thing that I know of that could lead to deny fact it's a democracy...

I was going to respond to you Jim about UK being a democracy, but Juliet beat me to it...but i will ask you this, how can you class the Uk as a democracy when it's people have no say in ANYTHING (not just EU membership), and 75+ % of our laws are made by unelected Eurocrats?!


No need to reply because you cannot. whatever you say in response just wont cut it i'm afraid.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:I was going to respond to you Jim about UK being a democracy, but Juliet beat me to it...but i will ask you this, how can you class the Uk as a democracy when it's people have no say in ANYTHING (not just EU membership), and 75+ % of our laws are made by unelected Eurocrats?!


No need to reply because you cannot. whatever you say in response just wont cut it i'm afraid.

Then why do you ask me this question?
Ah, yes, 'rhetorical' question?

I was simply making a point...i spose you could say the same about most countries


Edit,@Jim, that wasn't really fair of me to put it the way i did...

In fairness, any country whose leaders make any kind of decision without the peoples consultation and approval, is by very definition a dictatorship isn't it?
Just because those who made the decisions were elected in makes no difference if regardless of who you vote for-they all act the same. in the past in the UK, both the Tories and labour, and now the current governing coalition have all made MAJOR decisions and implemented many policies not only without consultation of the people but also against public opinion and wants...is that not a 3 party dictatorship?

I personally know for a fact that is exactly what we have in the UK and also all over the world.

In the US i would say it's even more blatant than the UK if you remember Fords decision to pardon Nixon. if that was any member of these forums i doubt Ford, the US people and the courts would have been so nice!
Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Conny Rice, Colin Powell (as well as MANY others in the US and the UK), they all lied about Saddam and his famous WMd's. it's worse than that, Bush admits in his Bio that he ordered torture and if given the chance he would do it again...why is he not in jail?!


Just thought it best to expand and be fair...



Back on topic i spose

Democracy consists of four basic elements:

1. A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections.

2. The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life.

3. Protection of the human rights of all citizens.

4. A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens.

(not my words) source www.stanford.edu

in europe the country most close to Democracy is Switzerland

Australia - Technocracy; politically under control of mining corporations and interest groups.

Oh really?....

Problem with democracy is it can produce results us westerners don't like. We then hypocritically denounce democracy in those places.

We wanted for Palestinians to have democratic elections. When hamas won those elections we didn't recognise them.

It's the same with Russia. Putin & co. aren't our cup of tea in many a way, but they keep getting ellected. It's a "victory" for us that this term the'y didn't get constitutional majority.

And as for these protests... try zooming in on the banners. Tha's right. The majority of protesters we now wholeheartedly support come from the 2nd largest political group that got elected in russia - the Communist Party of the Russian Federation. Oh the irony heh.

Brdavs wrote:Problem with democracy is it can produce results us westerners don't like. We then hypocritically denounce democracy in those places.

We wanted for Palestinians to have democratic elections. When hamas won those elections we didn't recognise them.

It's the same with Russia. Putin & co. aren't our cup of tea in many a way, but they keep getting ellected. It's a "victory" for us that this term the'y didn't get constitutional majority.

And as for these protests... try zooming in on the banners. Tha's right. The majority of protesters we now wholeheartedly support come from the 2nd largest political group that got elected in russia - the Communist Party of the Russian Federation. Oh the irony heh.

Not really supporting the protesters, my point of concern wasn't the fact United Russia was elected again but the fact there were frauds in said elections. I suppose communist party are far from being clean regarding frauding but my point was that they aren't what they used to be influence wise and thus doubtful they could have caused the majority of frauds.
To be honest, considering the line-up, I prefer Putin's United Russia party to have leading count than communist party (history of Russia is an argument of why, it's not even considering my own stances), but if it was to be communist party who would have won elections, or even the liberal democratic party (far right party hiding behind a trap name if I'm not mistaken), I wouldn't have been "happy". The fourth party "Just Russia" is as far as I know the only other one that doesn't seem to represent an extreme (can't say United Russia is an extreme party). But they also happen to be very close to United Russia.

there is no democracy just some sorts of controlling system


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