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Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:51 pm
by Psyko
Jedi~Tank wrote:Abstinence education goes too far yes. However I do believe abstinence is a very good thing...unfortunately what we have in cases such as this is the government institutions stepping in and parenting our kids due to the incredibly large numbers of parentless or 1 parent kids. I hate to throw a negative twist on it BUT, this **Filtered** is nose diving into the ground rapidly.
I understand how having a one-parent household might be tough on the child, but why the hell should the government have to step in and "parent for them"? Just because someone doesn't like or agree with one's parenting method doesn't give anyone, government or otherwise, the right to parent their child for them.
Yes, abstinence is a great idea, but it's not promotion of sex to teach teenagers how to be safe in the future. Anyone think 25 yr old virgin brides are suddenly going to pick up a book and learn all the little health details before her wedding night? Get real. She's going to learn based off rumor and conjecture instead of hard fact. I would also bet preventing pregnancy is the last thing on the man's mind. Just because a couple marries doesn't mean either one of them is ready for kids.
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:05 pm
by Juliette
Besides, it leads to bad sex.
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:35 pm
by Angnoch
I am fairly certain I said all this in my above post but as good of an idea as abstinence is, it is completely impractical and naive to think that horny teenagers will have the self control to abstain. Therefore sexual education should be mandatory and cover much more than just pregnancy, it should include proper use of contraceptives, and all the little things about condoms only being 97% effective and such. It is imperative now more than ever that children are armed with the knowledge to make a decision to the best of their abilities not a decision the government thinks they will make because they say so.
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:07 pm
by ramen07
Hah.
I went through abstinence ed a number of years ago with all of their PSAs and horror stories, and barely any of it was true other than the pure anatomy lessons. And the result? I know of one guy who got his girlfriend pregnant at 17, one girl that WANTED to be pregnant at 16 and numerous others that became, well, you know. "overzealous" with many people. >.>
Is this a direct result of abstinence ed? The connections aren't obvious, but I think so. Adamantly tell kids not to bring cell phones to class "or else", what do they do? Bring cell phones to class. Adamantly tell kids to not have sex, "or else"? They will. Next thing you know, they'll be standing outside by the flagpole during class to protest not holding hands.
Is the government seriously having a **Filtered** measuring contest with teenagers? Push against our absolute authority and we'll push back harder, don't you dare push again?
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:17 pm
by Ashu
I don't believe one should make love before marriage, but not holding hands? And getting FINED and CRIMINAL CHARGES?! What kind of fascist organization is this?! What's happening to America?
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:55 pm
by Psyko
Eärendil wrote:Just teach what was taught to me. Abstinence is great, but if you choose to partake in sexual encounters, be smart about it and use protection/contraception.
@op
I'll hold anyone's damn hands all I want to.
Just make sure it's not seen by school-aged children.
Also, no kissing.
Gateway sex acts. Bad-bad.
Malx wrote:I don't believe one should make love before marriage,
My question is would you force that opinion upon others?
Malx wrote: but not holding hands? And getting FINED and CRIMINAL CHARGES?! What kind of fascist organization is this?! What's happening to America?
EXACTLY!
Any foreigners willing to put up with a sham marriage with me for a few years to get me into another country?
Anyone...? *crickets chirp*
In all seriousness, I have a really hard time with being an American in recent years. I love this country. My father and grandfather fought for it. But the pathway our society is heading down, and has been since the 90s (at least), is not one I would like to travel. I'm sick of walking backward. We need something major to change, dammit! Instead we pass ridiculous laws and blame "the other guy." The Presidential Election will be nothing more than a mud-slinging competition. A regular ho-down complete with a hillbilly soundtrack. When did we stop trying to better ourselves as a people? Why is it always someone else's responsibility?
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:51 pm
by [KMA]Avenger
When you have had 100 years of presidents (the only exception being JFK) using the constitution as their personal toilet rag without so much as a moan or groan from the general public-what do you expect?
[spoiler]GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.
"I don't give a goddamn," Bush retorted. "I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way."
"Mr. President," one aide in the meeting said. "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution."
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"
I've talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution "a goddamned piece of paper."
Obama has gone even further than GWB in shredding the constitution to bits.[/spoiler]
Madness, shear madness! the best way to resist this kind of crap is for all parents and children to turn up holding hands. people these days are to scared of being singled out that they won't stand together any more.
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:18 am
by MEZZANINE
Teaching abstinence as an absolute, and demonsing sex as something sinful or dangerous is a very bad thing, all absolutes breed ignorance and people should always be educated not just told do this, dont do that, without argument.
If you tell teenagers that their perfectly natural desires and the hormones they have no control over are bad or wrong, then you are telling them that they are bad or wrong. The wont stop having sex, they will simply have sex in secret and not talk about it, the loss of communication will lead to loss of education on the subject and lead to a rise in teen pregnancies & untreated STDs.
Teenagers should NOT be encouraged to have sex early either, everyone matures at different rates and letting nature run it's course is the best way.
More openness is needed, parents need to accept that children grow up, allow them to have BF/GFs stay over and have sex in the home when they are ready so they are in a safe comfortable environment where they can take their time. Schools should educate ( thats what they are there for ), free contraception should be available, and teens should have the same right to privacy from their doctors adults.
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:48 am
by jedi~tank
I think we can be a little clearer with simplicity so as everyones view is not misconstrued...
Teaching abstinence in ones house is a part of teaching make good, smart choice, accumulate knowledge and apply it this ever becoming wise. Teaching the doctrine of abstinence is another matter. Anything that is remotely close to political correctness is yet another of the many paths in the garden of deciept the governments use to manipulate and control society.
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:33 am
by [KMA]Avenger
Jedi~Tank wrote:I think we can be a little clearer with simplicity so as everyones view is not misconstrued...
Teaching abstinence in ones house is a part of teaching make good, smart choice, accumulate knowledge and apply it this ever becoming wise. Teaching the doctrine of abstinence is another matter. Anything that is remotely close to political correctness is yet another of the many paths in the garden of deciept the governments use to manipulate and control society.
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:52 am
by MEZZANINE
Jedi~Tank wrote:I think we can be a little clearer with simplicity so as everyones view is not misconstrued...
Teaching abstinence in ones house is a part of teaching make good, smart choice, accumulate knowledge and apply it this ever becoming wise. Teaching the doctrine of abstinence is another matter. Anything that is remotely close to political correctness is yet another of the many paths in the garden of deciept the governments use to manipulate and control society.
Teaching patience not abstinence IMO That they shouldnt be rushed or pressured into sex, but be open about it when they are ready.
Of course no parent will want their teenager bringing strangers home for sex
BUT
If a teenager has a GF/BF, that GF/BF should be encouraged to visit and meet the family so the parents know them and can speak to their own teenage child about it.
Fact is no parent ever thinks their childs choice of GF/BF is good enough, never wants their child to grow up... but you cant stop it, and preaching at them about abstinence will only drive them to do it somewhere else, somewhere that might not be safe or as pleasant as it should be, and make them not discuss sex at all.
I wonder if you ran a poll, how many people here..
1) Were having sex long before their parents knew they were...... most I would bet
2) Had sex by sneaking partners into the home while parents were out
3) Had their first sex outside the home, back of car, at a party etc etc
4) How many actually had parents consent and BF/GFs staying over from the start
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:09 am
by Richard B Riddick
my personal opinion, it is not the governments job to teach and tell people to be abstinent. sure, i agree in sex ed, teach them how to do it safely and what not, but dont encourage or discourage it. that job should lie with the parents and parents alone to encourage the child to be abstinent or not. while some people believe that parents should allow it and what not, thats your opinion, but ultimately its the parents decision how they want to raise their child, not the governments. public education by schools and government should end at unbiased education.
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:18 am
by Angnoch
Ultimately I believe it is the children's choice considering you (parents) can try all you want to stop them, but at the end of the day if a kid wants to have sex with someone they will find a way to do it, I know I did and most of you probably did as well, the only thing that can possibly be done is to encourage them to make responsible choices make them feel comfortable to talk about it, and most importantly educate them on the subject. Curbing human nature is extremely difficult on a large scale and so abstinence is a great concept but almost entirely impractical. It is my hope that children are wise enough to listen to their parents, but most refuse out of a misguided sense of rebellion, and raging hormones and those two together create a potent and dangerous lack of self-control. Perhaps the best thing to do is not bombard children with the idea that sex money and beauty are not the most important things in the world, but to show them that alternate choices aside from the main stream are still viable and are in fact more sensible options.
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:53 am
by Richard B Riddick
Angnoch wrote:Ultimately I believe it is the children's choice considering you (parents) can try all you want to stop them, but at the end of the day if a kid wants to have sex with someone they will find a way to do it, I know I did and most of you probably did as well, the only thing that can possibly be done is to encourage them to make responsible choices make them feel comfortable to talk about it, and most importantly educate them on the subject. Curbing human nature is extremely difficult on a large scale and so abstinence is a great concept but almost entirely impractical. It is my hope that children are wise enough to listen to their parents, but most refuse out of a misguided sense of rebellion, and raging hormones and those two together create a potent and dangerous lack of self-control. Perhaps the best thing to do is not bombard children with the idea that sex money and beauty are not the most important things in the world, but to show them that alternate choices aside from the main stream are still viable and are in fact more sensible options.
im not saying parents can force them, i know as much as anybody that parents cant. but they can encourage certain things. thats what i mean, its the parents choice on what to teach them concerning morality or religion, key thing, is teach, can't force, it is always the child's choice as to what they do and what decisions they make, my point was its not the government's right to encourage it either way, thats up the the parent and how they raise their child, and from there its the childs own decision as to what they decide to do
Re: Does Abstinence Education Go Too Far?
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:01 pm
by Angnoch
That is in fact what I was saying at the end of my post, pointing out that the only option is to show them through example and patience that alternate views are viable and not something to scorn, but that can only be achieved through education not fear mongering