Apologies for my absence in this discussion, my internet isn't exactly stable so I will reply to as much as I can (which should have a double apology for the block post that will be made)
Nice to see you in the thread Admin. I'm much happier with you here saying what you like and don't like in regards to suggestions than just the lay community bickering.
Forum wrote:firstly, I am good with perg only tweaks. Its true that it rides on main code, and sometimes unintentional effects come up.
Perg is not for beginners (although can be used as such) but is simply a different style of play.
On the suggestion below: complex. I would prefer something simpler.
How about : Max hits on other player = 60AT + AT they used on you in last 24hours.
More to come...when discussions finished can look at actually making updates
Is that streamlined in terms of coding or preference? I can see a case for both. Each places some control of the escalation of aggression in the hands of the defender.
However it still fails to address the issue of the change from 1-3 AT minimum in the 60AT context. I would still like to see this recalibrated, the most obvious way would be increasing the standard 60AT to a new minimum. I'm not suggesting a massive increase but a rebalancing of existing standards in line with the current state of the game.
That said, onto the bickering! As my next portion will mostly be retorts to Tetris Monkey, I will place them all under a spoiler banner so that it does not detract from the issues at hand.
[spoiler]
Tetrismonkey wrote:Why not just remove Perg? I'm sorry, but removing some restrictions to ease Perg up a bit is just pointless. If you want less restrictions, go to main.
Well the obvious problem with this argument is that there is a substantial proportion of active and semi active players in purgatory. Yes this is less than main. But it is at my last check around 100 players that I would consider active/semi-active. This would be my conservative estimate, I'm sure Wasm can give a more definitive figure. In a game that is constantly trying to grapple with keeping players, why would you push them out of the style of play and most likely make them quit. Who benefits from this move? No one. You lose players. You lose activity. All realms lose. This is simple and I shouldn't have to argue this.
Tetrismonkey wrote:Anyways, to counter Admin Jasons point, about the game not being intended for new players. Thats a load of poop. It was introduced for that very reason. To allow less active players and new players somewhere to play without being massed for pointless things.
Whilst I am not necessarily contesting the original purpose behind purgatory as it is muddled in the mists of time, it is obvious what purg is now does not represent the claims you make about its purpose. So the most logical thing to do would get a new perspective. Arguing something that isn't relevant anymore is a waste of time.
Why would anyone argue about the current state of gatewars relying on an 8 year old perspective?
Tetrismonkey wrote:Now onto your next point. If you want a different play style, is that not what the other 4-5 games are for? Origins, Ascended, Newgrounds, Quantum. Im sure a missed one or two games...
This argument is against freedom of choice. In its simplest form, you are arguing that choice is bad, and more choices is worse.
Tetrismonkey wrote:My point is, changing Perg, expanding Perg, serves no damn point. If you want to play the game like everyone else, then go to main. Stop asking for changes that will once again benifit the few, leaving the rest of us to combat the same **Filtered** from 4 years ago.
No no no no. This is false. Stop casting false assertions as truths.
Like my other posts, people who play purgatory don't want to play in norm. And why should they have to? Answer me that TM.
Second, restrictions have historically benefited the few. I am telling you, me, Sylus, as well as Wasmguy, both whom were Maelstrom HC during the height of the hate, have always benefited from the restrictions.
Tetrismonkey wrote:So, I stand by my olriginal point. This effects a very small minority of the game, benefiting them to continue to hide from the rest of the game, enabling them to play closer to how MAIN is played, but in relative safety. Yes, this idea sounds better each time someone discusses it further.
Every attempt made at "fixing" purg broke it. And each time it was easier to exploit.
Limited turns? Get a group of like minded individuals (maelstrom).
Increase effectiveness of Motherships. Invest in mothership.
Reduce the effectiveness of strike, 3 turn minimum attacks, and increase sabbing. Buy covert levels.
Limit covert capacity, and recalibrate sabbing on lower covert levels. Buy AC levels. Good luck stopping high ACs in purg now.
Hell we recruited Glownut because he understood what the latest round of updates meant, and changed his account accordingly.
You are responsible for the accounts you hate.How can you be so blind to not see that. And worse, to think no one stopped and thought maybe this was a wrong approach. After the what...8th failed update. You keep doing it. But it has gotten silly. Too easy so to speak. So despite what ever you think, Wasmguy and I, and a few other individuals are committed to positive reform. We want the realm to be more balanced, and we want it to be an option for players. This does not mean we want to play in norm because we don't as that would objectively remove the reason many of us still play.
Tetrismonkey wrote:He asked for opinions, so he got one. I'm sorry but my opinion stems from nothing but bad encounters. Perg is a waste of coding, space and time. You want more freedom there, but refuse to return to main? That alone makes about as much sense as eating Mc Donalds and telling yourself it won't make you fat.
Bad encounters? When have you ever played purgatory? Every post you've ever made about purgatory has been made whilst playing in norm, and then not playing at all.
I asked for constructive opinions. I asked for considered reasonable debate. Everything you offer is available in the threads I quoted in my original post. Everything you have argued has already been countered in my original post.
Tetrismonkey wrote:Now PLEASE explain to me how the minority of the player base, the perg players, are the majority of the active player base?
What? Who said that? I have read over the thread twice just to make sure and...nope no one has attempted to claim that purgatory represented a greater proportion of players. Perhaps you misread.
Finally the prime contention you push Tetris Monkey is that Purgatory should be abolished, despite the obvious abandonment of a current players, in essence deliberately pushing more players away from the game? Why Tetris?
What part of an online MMO has blinded you so fully that you cannot entertain any idea of improvement, and instead you sit safely in the peanut gallery slinging mud and abuse without consideration for whom you are speaking?Tetrismonkey wrote:Perg then progressed to a hit and run areana, which is where all the bad reputation stems from. The freedom to talk crap and be able to not get attacked? Maelstrom is the root cause. With this, a few main players got together and destroyed quite a few of those players. Yet causing more restrictions to prevent massings. Thus, changing Perg once again into a hidding place for those that wish to talk crap and have somewhere to hide.
Finally a point of order on this. This is an incredibly false accusation that you perpetually make. Never during my time in the original Maelstrom were there players coming onto the main forums posting threads, talking crap, whilst hiding. In fact, every thread of this kind was always made by a norm player whom had taken issue with maelstrom. The only times "trash talking" by purgatory players was in response to these many many many many many many many many many many threads.
Nobody beat the original Maelstrom. It disbanded completely undefeated. Only about 4 of the 20 players of that Maelstrom alliance went onto the Destruction alliance, and then Rudy Pena defeated that alliance with a heavily built account, at a time when I was the only active Maelstrom member. But hey, I obviously don't know what I'm talking about right, having been in purgatory for the last 6 years.
What I am essentially saying is, you Tetris Monkey, are a fool and a liar. Every claim you make about purgatory, and subsequent claims about anyone who played in it is shrouded in personal bias and outright falsehoods. This is systematic of your own game history where you perpetually claim an inherent superiority and hatred over a section of the GateWars community that you have, even in this thread, explicitly stated you don't care about; and yet feel compelled to almost copy-paste typical responses despite the lack of traction they now carry. Your continued reliance on the past is saddening. The only irony here is that in your past behaviour and poor decision making, you have had your many many many many many trash talking posts on this issue deleted.
But of course don't let me detract from you revelling in your own version of events that are as far removed from reality as everything you posted in this thread.[/spoiler]
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