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Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:58 am
by Z E R O
Slim87R wrote:I agree to an extent. New players will never catch up because we have already used huge income to get to 25 and establish powerful accounts. We also have UP that no one can catch now. I forsee more players leaving now.


I don't blame them in the least, there is no hope for them.

Honestly, it would've been a much wiser move to remove income techs all together, and give units an arbitrary amount of income generation per turn. Something much higher than the original (0 techs) value. It puts everyone on the same level... It would hurt the top accounts with the mega incomes more, and it would help the lesser accounts still trying to ascend, keep up. Also, it would encourage way more militaristic account builds, which would make the game more fun, as without the whole "sitting around gaining income" wouldn't be as much of an option to grow as in the past.

Oh well. It's not like admin has ever cared about the consequences of his actions before.

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:11 am
by Slim87R
There is another problem I see here. A lot of past updates were put in place due to the high income generation. Those updates are still in place with the lower income crippling growth. UP is a good example.

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:13 am
by ~Bullseye~
yeap income went down 90% too. These changes are beginning to suck. Im hoping its just a bug, if not im done.

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:16 am
by Z E R O
~Bullseye~ wrote:yeap income went down 90% too. These changes are beginning to suck. Im hoping its just a bug, if not im done.


Yep, admin, figure out a better solution, or you will have a mass exodus on your hands ;) Guaranteed.

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:17 am
by Slim87R
~Bullseye~ wrote:yeap income went down 90% too. These changes are beginning to suck. Im hoping its just a bug, if not im done.


It's not a bug. Just another update without warning. Look at the tech page. Income tech explanation has changed.

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:19 am
by ~Bullseye~
Well that completely sucks.

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:21 am
by Slim87R
Juliette, care to chime in with some reasoning?

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:25 am
by Couzens
wow admin really doesn't want me to reach level 20 lol when i started MTs was changed from 40bil to like 100mil lol now this.

Oh if i only had started 2weeks earlier i think i would of finished ascending by now.

Heh well jel of everyone who has finished ascending already ah well at least i only got 2 left, feel sorry for anyone who starts out playing now. Even kid pex isn't a good turn farm anymore :smt010

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:28 am
by XenoX
Good god I'm glad I hit 1b Higgs today but that's it. I'm out I was planning on continuing NG but this update just finished it for me.

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:41 am
by fallen angel
Lord XenoX wrote:Good god I'm glad I hit 1b Higgs today but that's it. I'm out I was planning on continuing NG but this update just finished it for me.

gonna join you in one day!
done with NG i guess

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:42 am
by doc holliday
Yup I'm done playing Newgrounds now. Welcome to the grave Newgrounds. [-X

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:11 am
by Sanguis Sicarius
Now that this game is worthless to finished players, let me get some naq to finish my ascensions please :smt060

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:31 am
by Clockwork
Interesting, I was looking for an 'updates page' like we have on main /ascended, but there does not seem to be one for Newgrounds.

Edit:-

Had a quick chat with Julliette and the current change to income was not intended to reach the live server in its current state. I cannot give you an eta on when the change will be reverted, but the sky is not falling just yet :)

Any update to the live server will be announced before it happens, to give the community time to provide input on the changes being made.

Hope that helps :)

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:41 am
by agapooka
Well, let me introduce my opinion, since, if I recall, Juliette had mentioned, at some point, that income was getting ridiculous. Now, I've just started playing NG 1 month ago. The most valid points that have been expressed thus far are the following:

1. This update favours older players, because it is now impossible for a newer player to acquire the tremendous amounts of Naq that the older players have already spent on building their accounts.
2. This update locks the game up, because Naq is now so rare that its inherent value may be higher, but prices are not reflecting this new reality. Essentially, this translates as a huge price increase on all technologies, weaponry, spy levels and training.

Had income been preserved, a similar effect could have been achieved by increasing all prices tenfold. This means that all previous players got a 90% discount on everything. I must pay 10x more than them in order to catch up.

Not to mention that, had I known this, I might have invested differently, but let's not turn this into a whinefest about what might have been. ;)

Although the currency has preserved its purchasing power, its rarity and the fact that prices have not changed to reflect this rarity has an effect similar to the effects of hyperinflation if your salary does not change or is not indexed to inflation.

A much better way to make the game balanced would be for everything to be destroyable. When I say everything, I mean miners, attackers, UP, techs - everything. Here are some ideas:

    The library of Alexandria and all the technological advances and human knowledge that may have been contained therein was burnt to the ground.

    Unit production? When women and children have been killed in a town that has just been raided, whence do new soldiers come? Immigration, perhaps, but most people emigrate from war-torn countries.


    Attackers? If anything, the defending army and attacking army should be under one category, military strength, to be divided and deployed in its entirety or in part, as the player sees fit. And yes, each soldier is a mortal being, capable of being killed.

    Also, miners are helpless coal-sniffers who die everyday from having to breathe in the most unsanitary air. A certain percentage should probably die regularly, no matter how much population you have. There should be no arbitrary plague cap, but disease does occur more in places with a higher population density, so the disease rate should be proportional to the population. Maybe it can be mitigated by a medical tech.

The only disadvantage that I see is that strong players would have the advantage of being able to enforce their dominance through bullying. So, I propose that ingame actions have bigger consequences and require more planning. For example, attacking should have an element of strategy (requiring thorough reconnaissance of a realm). Attacking blindly sets you up for failure. Thorough reconnaissance would give you the information necessary to make the right decision in an attack. Also, attack reports would not be delivered instantly, but at the end of each turn. Instead of AT being the limiting factor, one should only be able to deploy the entirety of their army once per turn. Deploying a PART of the army would be a way to deploy more than once per turn. Deploying the entire army would leave the realm undefended for up to an entire turn.

And every recon mission has a chance of failure. It should not depend on the number of spies sent. If anything, the fewer, the less detectable. I have ideas, but they are beyond the scope of this post.


IN SHORT: this update does break the game, so why not re-invent it completely, if we're not going to retract it? :P

Re: Income

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:08 pm
by Juliette
Well.. this is kind of awkward. This was a test 'fix' we had created for testing purposes, but apparently Jason used the wrong file and launched it into live.

This will be corrected. I cannot give a timeline, unfortunately, but I will urge Jason to be as quick as possible with it. Pending our proper solution to the issue, that is.


(Thanks Pookie. Good post, I like a lot of elements from it.)