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Pfft. I kicked ass before I spent cash and I will continue to kick ass despite stopping cash play.

Loki™ wrote:Pfft. I kicked ass before I spent cash and I will continue to kick ass despite stopping cash play.

Saying one kicks ass because he is spending cash does not equal being weak without cash. But it makes it alot damn easier. Obviously you are able to play around with alliances to a certain point if your resources are unlimited. but how is that kicking ass?

The fun part about this game was while massing someone, you knew it would take them time to rebuild, you actually made a difference. Nobody just put up a 100trill defence, got it taken down and just up another one for funz. And when that one goes down go for a 100trill strike this time. Nobody was a monster in everything. You could not have a huge MS while also having a big cov level.
Somebody who had a huge defence, would not have a huge offence aswell. Etc etc.

It feels like a 'you want to respawn now?' button got added. Resources are meaningless.

Raven wrote:

Loki™ wrote:Pfft. I kicked ass before I spent cash and I will continue to kick ass despite stopping cash play.

Saying one kicks ass because he is spending cash does not equal being weak without cash. But it makes it alot damn easier. Obviously you are able to play around with alliances to a certain point if your resources are unlimited. but how is that kicking ass?

The fun part about this game was while massing someone, you knew it would take them time to rebuild, you actually made a difference. Nobody just put up a 100trill defence, got it taken down and just up another one for funz. And when that one goes down go for a 100trill strike this time. Nobody was a monster in everything. You could not have a huge MS while also having a big cov level.
Somebody who had a huge defence, would not have a huge offence aswell. Etc etc.

It feels like a 'you want to respawn now?' button got added. Resources are meaningless.

While I still partially agree with you on mechanics it is a tad unfair to blame the mechanics for the mass exodus. I mean yeah they could slap 50k of the inactives into vac mode but then the few of us remaining actives get to fight like hungry orphans over the very weak scraps that remain?

It is already slim pickings sometimes which could lead to more exodus. Sure a balance could be found somewhere in there but to start things off we cannot misplace blame where it doesn't belong.

Sniperwax wrote:

Raven wrote:

Loki™ wrote:Pfft. I kicked ass before I spent cash and I will continue to kick ass despite stopping cash play.

Saying one kicks ass because he is spending cash does not equal being weak without cash. But it makes it alot damn easier. Obviously you are able to play around with alliances to a certain point if your resources are unlimited. but how is that kicking ass?

The fun part about this game was while massing someone, you knew it would take them time to rebuild, you actually made a difference. Nobody just put up a 100trill defence, got it taken down and just up another one for funz. And when that one goes down go for a 100trill strike this time. Nobody was a monster in everything. You could not have a huge MS while also having a big cov level.
Somebody who had a huge defence, would not have a huge offence aswell. Etc etc.

It feels like a 'you want to respawn now?' button got added. Resources are meaningless.

While I still partially agree with you on mechanics it is a tad unfair to blame the mechanics for the mass exodus. I mean yeah they could slap 50k of the inactives into vac mode but then the few of us remaining actives get to fight like hungry orphans over the very weak scraps that remain?

It is already slim pickings sometimes which could lead to more exodus. Sure a balance could be found somewhere in there but to start things off we cannot misplace blame where it doesn't belong.

The inactives have been part of this game forever. That is not the problem. The difference between now and cpl years earlier is that people earn their total UU count in a week of income. Or in an hour of work in RL.

Raven wrote:

Sniperwax wrote:

Raven wrote:

Loki™ wrote:Pfft. I kicked ass before I spent cash and I will continue to kick ass despite stopping cash play.

Saying one kicks ass because he is spending cash does not equal being weak without cash. But it makes it alot damn easier. Obviously you are able to play around with alliances to a certain point if your resources are unlimited. but how is that kicking ass?

The fun part about this game was while massing someone, you knew it would take them time to rebuild, you actually made a difference. Nobody just put up a 100trill defence, got it taken down and just up another one for funz. And when that one goes down go for a 100trill strike this time. Nobody was a monster in everything. You could not have a huge MS while also having a big cov level.
Somebody who had a huge defence, would not have a huge offence aswell. Etc etc.

It feels like a 'you want to respawn now?' button got added. Resources are meaningless.

While I still partially agree with you on mechanics it is a tad unfair to blame the mechanics for the mass exodus. I mean yeah they could slap 50k of the inactives into vac mode but then the few of us remaining actives get to fight like hungry orphans over the very weak scraps that remain?

It is already slim pickings sometimes which could lead to more exodus. Sure a balance could be found somewhere in there but to start things off we cannot misplace blame where it doesn't belong.

The inactives have been part of this game forever. That is not the problem. The difference between now and cpl years earlier is that people earn their total UU count in a week of income. Or in an hour of work in RL.

Wouldn't that add more satisfaction to the brutality of a GnR strike/phased double whammy massing? knowing that you made them spend money foolishly heehehe.

Sniperwax wrote:

Raven wrote:

Sniperwax wrote:

Raven wrote:

Loki™ wrote:Pfft. I kicked ass before I spent cash and I will continue to kick ass despite stopping cash play.

Saying one kicks ass because he is spending cash does not equal being weak without cash. But it makes it alot damn easier. Obviously you are able to play around with alliances to a certain point if your resources are unlimited. but how is that kicking ass?

The fun part about this game was while massing someone, you knew it would take them time to rebuild, you actually made a difference. Nobody just put up a 100trill defence, got it taken down and just up another one for funz. And when that one goes down go for a 100trill strike this time. Nobody was a monster in everything. You could not have a huge MS while also having a big cov level.
Somebody who had a huge defence, would not have a huge offence aswell. Etc etc.

It feels like a 'you want to respawn now?' button got added. Resources are meaningless.

While I still partially agree with you on mechanics it is a tad unfair to blame the mechanics for the mass exodus. I mean yeah they could slap 50k of the inactives into vac mode but then the few of us remaining actives get to fight like hungry orphans over the very weak scraps that remain?

It is already slim pickings sometimes which could lead to more exodus. Sure a balance could be found somewhere in there but to start things off we cannot misplace blame where it doesn't belong.

The inactives have been part of this game forever. That is not the problem. The difference between now and cpl years earlier is that people earn their total UU count in a week of income. Or in an hour of work in RL.

Wouldn't that add more satisfaction to the brutality of a GnR strike/phased double whammy massing? knowing that you made them spend money foolishly heehehe.

Ofcourse but when the price of resources are as foolishly low as they are now, who are really the fools?

The amount of ways to do damage to an enemy account are pretty varied and a versatile attacker can do damage whether people are repairing or not. It baffles me how you guys think massing is so hopeless. Is that really what the majority of players in this game now think? If that's the case, you really need to think long and hard about how you fight wars because I'd posit the skill hasn't left the game, just the majority of players

I find it amusing people think that 4 days of PPT are a lot of protection. I remember in the OE war that I had to watch my own account, let alone others, like a hawk all day as if I turned away for even a few minutes, my stuff could be gone. We'd have battles that lasted all day long with billions of units killed on each side just as this game should be. The interesting thing about cheap resources is that it made "unlimited resources" available to a much larger group of players than before. In fact I'd say it was one of the best levelings of the playing field this game has seen. Before, big accounts were only available to those who had thousands of dollars in their pockets...now the parity seen in this game is quite decent, at least across the major alliances.

Clearly, alliances with more *active* members have a better ability to utilize the tools the game provides. But I ask you...these updates have been in place for over two years. If your alliance hasn't adapted to how the game works in two years, whose fault is that really? The game's for ruining your button mashing technique? Or yours for not adapting to updates that really don't diminish the quality of fights. Rather they just change some of the variables you have to consider.

Sigh...noobs.

The most fun I've had while playing this game in a war is..

Mothership + Defense + ACing somebody like Mathlord/Caesar who trains, retrains, etc to make an actual battle rather than untraining and letting his token defense fall.

War is what you make it. You can have fun only if you so choose it.

Mathlord wrote:The interesting thing about cheap resources is that it made "unlimited resources" available to a much larger group of players than before. In fact I'd say it was one of the best levelings of the playing field this game has seen. Before, big accounts were only available to those who had thousands of dollars in their pockets...now the parity seen in this game is quite decent, at least across the major alliances.

Really? lol

The big accounts in TL were made by playing the game, in those days even thousands of dollars could not even make that much of a difference. Nobody wants unlimited resources, where the hell is the fun in the game then? The things you consider skillz these days are hilarious, kinda figures.

Raven wrote:

Mathlord wrote:The interesting thing about cheap resources is that it made "unlimited resources" available to a much larger group of players than before. In fact I'd say it was one of the best levelings of the playing field this game has seen. Before, big accounts were only available to those who had thousands of dollars in their pockets...now the parity seen in this game is quite decent, at least across the major alliances.

Really? lol

The big accounts in TL were made by playing the game, in those days even thousands of dollars could not even make that much of a difference. Nobody wants unlimited resources, where the hell is the fun in the game then? The things you consider skillz these days are hilarious, kinda figures.

And to think that the $$ spenders have not had a huge advantage in any period of gameplay is naive. The big accounts of TL that farmed their way to strength were very notable, but even then their resources were limited compared to what CoP had. Besides, TL has always had their fair share of $$ spenders in their ranks When naq got cheap, farming got better. Raiding got better. Everything has been easier in recent years. Of course there's something to be said for a fight where both sides have a fixed sum of naq at their disposal and then whoever runs out first loses, but that's never been how this game has been fought. There's always someone who could gain more by their wallet. If you've been around as long as I have, you'd remember ELUSIVE literally buying covert levels with SS or brothercrit who took selling naq to such an art form they changed the game rules to stop him. Now consider a war where both sides have quads of naq at their disposal, because that's where the game has gotten whether you like it or not. Now a battle is won not by who has the most resources, but who is more skilled at beating down and keeping down their opponent.

I pity you for not experiencing the excitement of one of these clashes, but I find it hilarious that someone who hasn't fought a real war in ages would talk about problems with the current war system. But I guess that's the point. Too often today, we see people who never learned the details and finesse of fighting because the people to teach them have become more and more scarce. Of course the best way to learn is in a firefight, but the difference in power between the more knowledgeable older players and younger fighters is usually too great to gain much from an online knock down drag out affair. I wonder, when was the last time you fought a war Raven? You certainly weren't one of us doing the lions share of the work in the last server war...so six years ago maybe? Better dust those cobwebs off big boy, then we can have a conversation about how conflicts have changed.

@Noobert: Those were great battles and another example of how tactics come into play in this game on multiple levels. You and I would fight, your mothership bigger than mine, on occasion me being able to ac through a defense while fighting. I'd often be bait for Qacol and you'd often be bait for Tekki and a two-person grudge match could turn into ten or more people waging war on different levels of the same battlefield. For those that put in the time during that server war, it was a blast. Always something to kill, at least for me haha.

Mathlord wrote:
And to think that the $$ spenders have not had a huge advantage in any period of gameplay is naive. The big accounts of TL that farmed their way to strength were very notable, but even then their resources were limited compared to what CoP had. Besides, TL has always had their fair share of $$ spenders in their ranks.

We did? Enlighten me, or is this once more one of your famous statements wich are just gonna be left.

Mathlord wrote:When naq got cheap, farming got better. Raiding got better.

How can these 2 things get better. please elaborate abit, i feel like you typed up a nice story.

Mathlord wrote: Everything has been easier in recent years. Of course there's something to be said for a fight where both sides have a fixed sum of naq at their disposal and then whoever runs out first loses, but that's never been how this game has been fought. There's always someone who could gain more by their wallet. If you've been around as long as I have, you'd remember ELUSIVE literally buying covert levels with SS or brothercrit who took selling naq to such an art form they changed the game rules to stop him. Now consider a war where both sides have quads of naq at their disposal, because that's where the game has gotten whether you like it or not. Now a battle is won not by who has the most resources, but who is more skilled at beating down and keeping down their opponent.

The thing is, naq was so expensive back then, playing the game could still get you to a point where even these players would drop. It wasn't deciding for anything. Also explain how you beat down an opponent and keeping him down? What i see is people quitting due to boredom. Is that a skill in TA Math?

Mathlord wrote:I pity you for not experiencing the excitement of one of these clashes, but I find it hilarious that someone who hasn't fought a real war in ages would talk about problems with the current war system. But I guess that's the point. Too often today, we see people who never learned the details and finesse of fighting because the people to teach them have become more and more scarce. Of course the best way to learn is in a firefight, but the difference in power between the more knowledgeable older players and younger fighters is usually too great to gain much from an online knock down drag out affair. I wonder, when was the last time you fought a war Raven? You certainly weren't one of us doing the lions share of the work in the last server war...so six years ago maybe? Better dust those cobwebs off big boy, then we can have a conversation about how conflicts have changed.

How would you know what i have been doing? You talk like you actually know what i have been doing the last years. And don't make me laugh, without the work we did you would probably not even playing this game anymore, because you would still be bullied by ETL right now. You cleaned the crums of the floor, the lions share was already done by then. Sadly TA and especially you seem to record actually being meaningful. I do remember how quickly you backed out of a 1 vs 1 not to long ago. I suppose your stats were to valuable to miss

It is really amusing to see how some people are trying to keep the current system into play by devaluing opinions based on what they think they know.

Regardless of this all, could we keep your version and my version of what happened 5 years ago out of this. The topic is about why wars are so utterly boring and anti war. I don't really care that you think pressing a button and watching your logs for hours on end is skill.

The fact that you play this game 24 hours a day is quite funny. You are over complicating a very simple game. Why are you doing this? E rep? Idk.

Oh and math, I do hope your comment about not being in a real war in ages wasn't directed at me. None the less I leave you ego craving kids to your over over complex definitions on how to fight in this numbers game.

Tetrismonkey wrote:The fact that you play this game 24 hours a day is quite funny. You are over complicating a very simple game. Why are you doing this? E rep? Idk.

Oh and math, I do hope your comment about not being in a real war in ages wasn't directed at me. None the less I leave you ego craving kids to your over over complex definitions on how to fight in this numbers game.

I am sure it was commented towards me. I suppose playing 24/7 made Math think he knows everything. And makes his opinion weigh more value then mine or yours.

[spoiler]

Raven wrote:

Mathlord wrote:
And to think that the $$ spenders have not had a huge advantage in any period of gameplay is naive. The big accounts of TL that farmed their way to strength were very notable, but even then their resources were limited compared to what CoP had. Besides, TL has always had their fair share of $$ spenders in their ranks.

We did? Enlighten me, or is this once more one of your famous statements wich are just gonna be left.

Mathlord wrote:When naq got cheap, farming got better. Raiding got better.

How can these 2 things get better. please elaborate abit, i feel like you typed up a nice story.

Mathlord wrote: Everything has been easier in recent years. Of course there's something to be said for a fight where both sides have a fixed sum of naq at their disposal and then whoever runs out first loses, but that's never been how this game has been fought. There's always someone who could gain more by their wallet. If you've been around as long as I have, you'd remember ELUSIVE literally buying covert levels with SS or brothercrit who took selling naq to such an art form they changed the game rules to stop him. Now consider a war where both sides have quads of naq at their disposal, because that's where the game has gotten whether you like it or not. Now a battle is won not by who has the most resources, but who is more skilled at beating down and keeping down their opponent.

The thing is, naq was so expensive back then, playing the game could still get you to a point where even these players would drop. It wasn't deciding for anything. Also explain how you beat down an opponent and keeping him down? What i see is people quitting due to boredom. Is that a skill in TA Math?

Mathlord wrote:I pity you for not experiencing the excitement of one of these clashes, but I find it hilarious that someone who hasn't fought a real war in ages would talk about problems with the current war system. But I guess that's the point. Too often today, we see people who never learned the details and finesse of fighting because the people to teach them have become more and more scarce. Of course the best way to learn is in a firefight, but the difference in power between the more knowledgeable older players and younger fighters is usually too great to gain much from an online knock down drag out affair. I wonder, when was the last time you fought a war Raven? You certainly weren't one of us doing the lions share of the work in the last server war...so six years ago maybe? Better dust those cobwebs off big boy, then we can have a conversation about how conflicts have changed.

How would you know what i have been doing? You talk like you actually know what i have been doing the last years. And don't make me laugh, without the work we did you would probably not even playing this game anymore, because you would still be bullied by ETL right now. You cleaned the crums of the floor, the lions share was already done by then. Sadly TA and especially you seem to record actually being meaningful. I do remember how quickly you backed out of a 1 vs 1 not to long ago. I suppose your stats were to valuable to miss

It is really amusing to see how some people are trying to keep the current system into play by devaluing opinions based on what they think they know.

Regardless of this all, could we keep your version and my version of what happened 5 years ago out of this. The topic is about why wars are so utterly boring and anti war. I don't really care that you think pressing a button and watching your logs for hours on end is skill.

[/spoiler]

So what was the last war you fought? You can talk about 5 years ago all you want. I remember that time well and I will be eternally amused at your arrogance in thinking TL accomplished anything alone. Remember in the most recent server war, it was TAF that brought down the vast majority of big FUALL defenses. It was TAF who kept bringing down their defenses throughout that war while TLE's much bigger accounts were busy with exams...don't forget that when TL had their noble battle against CoP, TAF was by their side as well. Neither of us could accomplish the things we have on our own, we always worked together and we usually had other help as well, from The Order or EPA or a half dozen other alliances that lent their support. To say anything else is revisionist history.

As for how expensive naq was back then, yes it was very expensive. And people spent thousands of dollars to get an advantage. Further, people made huge windfalls buying and selling naq and used some of the profits to boost their accounts. The game has always been full of $$ spenders. Always has, always will be. Doesn't mean everyone does it. The vast majority of my alliance has not spent a dime on this game. What I was saying is while naq has become very cheap on the black market, so too have raiding and farming. Because people could buy things so cheaply, people had to raise their farming and raiding minimums to cope to keep making a profit. Combine with that a shrinking player base and a whole host of easy to acquire and use farms out there and it's really easy to raid and farm a lot very quickly. Shoot, even I can do it and you know if I can farm a quad in a month, just about anyone can.

This game has always had skill in every aspect of it. Of course you can play it simplistically. For the simple enjoyment of improving one's own account. Or you can add different layers of complexity. You can start working with a group of players, develop skills that make eachother better in the process. You can fight wars and learn how to fight wars more efficiently or more effectively. You defend your own or choose to go out and conquer others. The possibilities in this game are pretty limitless which is why we are all here. Of course the game itself is as simple as it comes. It is the community that has made it complex. We've spent the better part of a decade figuring out the best ways to survive in this ever changing game, isn't that the point?

If you don't think there's skill left in the battles in this game, obviously you haven't fought a real war in a very long time. If you think war is fought by people massing eachother while the other is asleep and noone is repairing, then you fought in some terribly boring wars. If all you ever learned was how to click a few buttons to buy a big strike, put 15 in the attack box and hit that enter key, then you have no basis for talking about real battles. I choose to stay up and watch my account quite a bit during wartime. Not necessarily 24/7, but there have been days where I've made sure to be around when the next attempt on my defense occurs. Why? Because stargateWARS is about actually participating in both the offense and the defense of your realm and it is insanely tiring to sit and watch opponents who do nothing all day long until they see you go to sleep and then strike. I'm sure if you actually took part in these scale of conflicts you would agree instead of just sitting their semi-active reminiscing about your legendary past

No one insults Raven (by implying ignorance or inexperience on his part)..