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Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:50 am
by Huxley
Norbe wrote:Huxley wrote:Dubby_CompGamerGeek2 wrote:
As a long-time former member as well as a long-time former leader of The Magnificents alliance,
I think that this would really hurt the ability of newbie and independent alliances
Dubby_CompGamerGeek2 wrote:
As leader / log watcher of the Magnificents alliance I was able to stave off / prevent 1 or 2 massing by Ricos, thanks to helpful intel and diplomacy.
If I was better prepared, I would have been able to stop at least one additional massing.
Ha, yeah that's the reason you don't want this update isn't it, Mr Over Emphasis Much. Everyone knows the real reason why you don't want it, why are you trying to cover it up? It puts your alliance at a disadvantage, fair enough, why not just admit it?
Affect smaller alliances? Pffft, please.
A delay in the attack logs would put
every alliance at a disadvantage. It reduces the ability of teamworking to help each other. And it means massings will nearly always be successful, so less defenses will be built and all wars will become 0 stat fests again.
It will benefit the snipers who play alone, as they can now remove defenses from even the most active alliances on a whim.
It's just a bad idea for the game overall. The system works well, massings need to be carefully planned and can take several attempts. Yet still every defense built has fallen.
~Norbe~
Guild's reply above explains my point of view.
I'm not defending the update, it would in my opinion too be a step in the wrong direction, but Dubby_CompGamerGeek2's statements of the real reason he doesn't want it are absurd.
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:11 am
by Lu Bu
To Caprila's points:
.1. You may have noticed in the other coming update, Double strike is getting a big nerf. Likely to be ~20% and wipe all your glory on doing so, same for glory phase. No more double+glory snipers. Now, as I understand it, double strike was brought in, in part, as a counter to alliance logs, and allow people a chance of 'bursting' through.
The question that brought up was, ' Is it fair to leave alliance logs at full strength, whilst diminishing the effects of double strike/glory functions ' ?
.2. The 'automation' factor, means that browser and app plugins auto-refresh alliance logs, allowing the user to 'sit back' and watch the logs, without any effort at all. This gives the ability for 1 person to 'play' for 30, that are not even signed in, by easymoding.
The question that brought up was something like, 'Is automation such as this good for the game, and the power it gives alliances? '
1. Um, double strike was overpowered to begin with, and too cheap to buy. Nerfing it is the right thing to do regardless. Yes it is fair to leave alliance logs how they are while diminishing double strike. This is a no brainer.
2. Newsflash - most people who play GW have a real life too, including myself. If someone wants to sit and watch logs all day, good for them. It doesn;t change how fast I react to a massing, even if they put up alliance ppt. Not everyone automates, and the fact that some do doesnt change anything. Delaying the logs is not natural.
My 2 cents - Once again, I suggest that there should be a glory purchase for stealth attacks where an individuals attacks are hidden from the alliance log until next turn change. This promotes coordinated attacks and teamwork but is not too overpowering. Leave logs how they are and nerf double strike and consider adding this new glory stealth feature
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:04 am
by MaxSterling
Lu Bu wrote:My 2 cents - Once again, I suggest that there should be a glory purchase for stealth attacks where an individuals attacks are hidden from the alliance log until next turn change. This promotes coordinated attacks and teamwork but is not too overpowering. Leave logs how they are and nerf double strike and consider adding this new glory stealth feature
If this is implemented, the attacker must have x% higher covert power than their victim and should be forced to maintain that covert power until the end of the following turn change. This would reduce sniping with minimal losses.
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:07 am
by Lu Bu
MaxSterling wrote:Lu Bu wrote:My 2 cents - Once again, I suggest that there should be a glory purchase for stealth attacks where an individuals attacks are hidden from the alliance log until next turn change. This promotes coordinated attacks and teamwork but is not too overpowering. Leave logs how they are and nerf double strike and consider adding this new glory stealth feature
If this is implemented, the attacker must have x% higher covert power than their victim and should be forced to maintain that covert power until the end of the following turn change. This would reduce sniping with minimal losses.
Right, and if they reduce covert power any successive attack would not be hidden
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:50 am
by MaxSterling
Lu Bu wrote:MaxSterling wrote:Lu Bu wrote:My 2 cents - Once again, I suggest that there should be a glory purchase for stealth attacks where an individuals attacks are hidden from the alliance log until next turn change. This promotes coordinated attacks and teamwork but is not too overpowering. Leave logs how they are and nerf double strike and consider adding this new glory stealth feature
If this is implemented, the attacker must have x% higher covert power than their victim and should be forced to maintain that covert power until the end of the following turn change. This would reduce sniping with minimal losses.
Right, and if they reduce covert power any successive attack would not be hidden
They should be forced to keep the covert power until the following turn ends. If those spies aren't forced into being there, then the whole thing will be brutally abused by snipers. If they are forced to keep those spies in the open, there's risk/reward if they pull it off. If the spies get massed, then their attacks appear in the logs.
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:44 pm
by High Empty
Re: Attack logs
Attack logs as they currently are,
They are ok.
So what if someone is watching logs 24x7..
They only have 4 alliance ppt's
and 20 alliance repairs.
An alliance attacking can BURN those quickly!
I'd be more tempted to change the allaince ppt's to be excatly until the next turn change or the next 6 turn change. So that you were on ppt for 5 turn changes and not a set number of minutes!
As for the Double strike
1k GP, and 2 market turns is a fair price, doubling up for an hour is worth it. It's also useful to use when you want to farm.
The 2 market turns are the expensive bit.
As for the Glory phase who cares REALLY, if your active you just jump on an allaince ppt, or a personal ppt, or You repair and repair and repair and cost him or her an arm and a leg and the timer does run out. ( would be useful to put a timer in
)
Suggested addition
Double defense ( 1k GP and 1 market turn) Lasts 2 hours, Doubles your defense, including your Planets defenses.
Next option
BUYING market turns ! with GP 1K buys you 1 MT.
So
Rank 1 gets 10 GP per turn = 3360 per week.
Rank 2-120ish gets 5 per turn = 1680 per week
rank 121-1200ish get 1 per turn= 336 per week
This would increase the in fighting for the top 120 ranks and rank 1.
and it would give another option for market turns, but it wouldn't really overpower anything.
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:05 pm
by SVaRuN
Cardiff football club looks like is delaying attack all the time, since they aint scoring
ho ho
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:11 pm
by Mathlord
High Empty wrote:Re: Attack logs
Attack logs as they currently are,
They are ok.
So what if someone is watching logs 24x7..
They only have 4 alliance ppt's
and 20 alliance repairs.
An alliance attacking can BURN those quickly!
I'd be more tempted to change the allaince ppt's to be excatly until the next turn change or the next 6 turn change. So that you were on ppt for 5 turn changes and not a set number of minutes!
Exactly! I don't understand where people are saying defending is overpowered in this game. We've all been in situations where our alliances have burned most of those defense repairs in a single day. As the game stands now, a strong attacker with good levels can cause so much damage to so many accounts that there has to be some kind of check on that. Besides, take away or delay logs and you remove one of the more "covert" elements of war planning.
The game setup was very well designed back during the last TAF vs OE war. There was no double strike/glory phasing and attack logs were just fine as they were. Both alliances, especially at the end had good log watching and still plenty of 100 trill+ defenses were massed on each side.
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:46 am
by Huxley
Mathlord wrote:High Empty wrote:Re: Attack logs
Attack logs as they currently are,
They are ok.
So what if someone is watching logs 24x7..
They only have 4 alliance ppt's
and 20 alliance repairs.
An alliance attacking can BURN those quickly!
I'd be more tempted to change the allaince ppt's to be excatly until the next turn change or the next 6 turn change. So that you were on ppt for 5 turn changes and not a set number of minutes!
Exactly! I don't understand where people are saying defending is overpowered in this game. We've all been in situations where our alliances have burned most of those defense repairs in a single day. As the game stands now, a strong attacker with good levels can cause so much damage to so many accounts that there has to be some kind of check on that. Besides, take away or delay logs and you remove one of the more "covert" elements of war planning.
The game setup was very well designed back during the last TAF vs OE war. There was no double strike/glory phasing and attack logs were just fine as they were. Both alliances, especially at the end had good log watching and still plenty of 100 trill+ defenses were massed on each side.
Agreed, if a alliance without the capability takes on another in another "class" that doesn't mean they deserve a advantage, as it would be if the current mechanics were changed. Right now as it stands, like Mathlord explained, a strong attacker it would be a nuisance, but it wouldn't last forever.
To double strike, make it wipe all the GnR that makes complete sense. Expensive, how it should be.
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:04 pm
by Am Heh
High Empty wrote:
BUYING market turns ! with GP 1K buys you 1 MT.
So
Rank 1 gets 10 GP per turn = 3360 per week.
Rank 2-120ish gets 5 per turn = 1680 per week
rank 121-1200ish get 1 per turn= 336 per week
This would increase the in fighting for the top 120 ranks and rank 1.
and it would give another option for market turns, but it wouldn't really overpower anything.
Yes please, that would be extremely helpfully. Would finally have a use for the 100k+ glory I somehow have.
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:28 pm
by InR
Guild wrote:What a ridiculous idea, this potential update has just come up because TA (lets not beat around the bush here) are better than other big alliances at watching logs.
they have it practiced and perfected, you all need to just man up and improve yourselves rather than nerfing others
+1 agree with you 100% i mean WTH.... guys think that its easy to have always some 1 around watching logs? people are putting allot of afford into watching job!
so why why would you add lag into game lol? makes really no sense to me.... like it is now its forcing people to play team play..
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:15 am
by Ritalin
lol whats next... a delay in when you see your own damage? lol
](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall")
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:52 am
by ~Tziki~
5s delay in logs.. pointless since the 6 attacks in 2 second rule would mean 9 attacks in 5.. roughly. after those 5 if your caught your no better off.
30 sec delay in refreshing... again no point in it because in an onliner speed is key in a 2 way onliner 2v2 watching alliances log is often utilised so you can see your ally. restricting your ability to see their logs will in effect defeat the purpose of allowing it to start with, 30 seconds can be a long time with war/war to be in the dark.
so in all.
No to that completely. leave logs as it is.
If its a case of double strike being nerfed and balance, then your other option is to give the new bonus strike button a bonus nox/realm alert negation, to allow for an actual burst compared to just pure strike. costs are increased for the attacker, but time frame isnt as effected. which counters both arguments.
Tziki to the rescue.
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:55 pm
by Caprila
23:08:17 Support - Alright, delayed alliance attack logs should be up on Dev,
delayed by 1 minute. Later Paul.
23:09:15 caprila - Ok
Does the delay also apply to co/officer logs?
23:10:11Support - No, alliance only.
23:10:27 caprila - Is that intentional, leaving alone co/officer?
23:10:32 caprila - or just a wip
23:13:09 Support - Hmm. Attacks on you directly you notice directly, because well.. they are on you.. makes sense you would notice attacks on your officers 'sooner' than attacks on random member worlds in your loose confederations.
23:13:35 Support - Going to stick with only Alliance logs though.
...
23:14:21 caprila - will this be a part of the evaluation when glory rebalance comes to main? Or would you like us to test it further on dev
23:16:33 Support - Ideally the two come together, seeing how they are tied together as an idea (limit Glory OP)..
23:17:03 caprila - True, true
23:17:11 caprila - Thanks for that
23:17:15 Support - So that would be the case, yes. Both go in together, both up for tweaking.
Re: Delaying Alliance Attack Logs? :o
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:04 pm
by Norbe
I'm speechless. Just speechless.
at least I don't have to build a defence or play gatewars in a decent manner anymore
sniper time!