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USSR's economy crashed a burned, a communist (which is an extreme form of socialism) was what it was. Russia, now a Capitalist economy with a flat tax is expanding on a rate like never before. It is how they are manageing to stay such a powerful nation even though what they just went through.

Capitalism works, look at America, the English Commonwealth, France, Germany, Canada. They are the most successful nations. China is making more capitalistic changes and reforms, and what happened? Their economy is beginning to rival the United States. The United States, the last major superpower. USSR literally fell apart. Two major systems. One worked (capitalism) and one didn't (communism, an extreme form of socialism).

I see this, Capitalism, with a few regulations (to stop inflation and high costs), but they would be only supplementary. People need motivation and since money has become what everyone wants, they can do it.

Ok i voted deomcratic socilist society as my preference... but im not too fussed with living in a TRUE democratic capitilasit society.

however i dont see much democracy in the United states and would consider it Facist Capitalism... if you are yourself an American and strongly dispute this, you are entitled to your decisions but i suggest you do research into the definitions of Democracy and Fascism, and then some more research into the activities of your "Democratically" elected government.

IF you are solely looking at the standard of living for the everyday citizen, a socialist environment is undoubtly the best society in which a citizen could live in. anybody who references socialism as "crashing and burning" is grossly uneducated. Flourishing TRUE socialist governments (like switzerland, holand and quite a few european countries) boast the best standards of living in the world, and have the highest rate of happy citizens than any other country. The downside to their perfect society is that it took them close to 40 years to reach the standard they are now, the chose not to sacrafice their people's standards of living to fast track their economy... they put people first and stuck by that.

if my country continues to befall my expectations for "Democratic" Capitalism i will undoubtly look to migrate to a Proud Socialist Democracy.

whoever groups socialism and communism together are uneducated morons, obviously too tied up in patriotic brainwashing to shun those societies differing from their own.

however i dont see much democracy in the United states and would consider it Facist Capitalism... if you are yourself an American and strongly dispute this, you are entitled to your decisions but i suggest you do research into the definitions of Democracy and Fascism, and then some more research into the activities of your "Democratically" elected government.

Of course you don't see much democracy; The United States is a republic.

J/k, I understand what you mean, and dissagree.

spinal wrote:whoever groups socialism and communism together are uneducated morons, obviously too tied up in patriotic brainwashing to shun those societies differing from their own.

I wouldn't call them morons, but yes... they are two different things; but only by degree -- even Marx called his new system, Scientific Socialism.
Both however, promote government control which is fine if certain nationalist needs are met.

spinal wrote:IF you are solely looking at the standard of living for the everyday citizen, a socialist environment is undoubtly the best society in which a citizen could live in.

Equality does not equate prosperity.

spinal wrote:Flourishing TRUE socialist governments (like switzerland, holand and quite a few european countries) boast the best standards of living in the world, and have the highest rate of happy citizens than any other country

Ah but comrade I assure you, the USSR has/had the highest percentage of happy citizens... 110%
Now, I'm not sure that Switzerland is a 'true' socialist government. It still allows for private business, allows competition within it's industries, and etc. I see it as a maxed-out-welfare version of the United States.
It's not pure socialism -- the swiss themselves take pride in claiming that the government only controls a fourth of their industry.


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Me personally? I like diluted fascism (Aka Nationalism).

Finally:

spinal wrote:if my country continues to befall my expectations for "Democratic" Capitalism i will undoubtly look to migrate to a Proud Socialist Democracy.

Countinues? At least you are basing your view of the United States on the present instead of the past: Believe me, if Bush ever pulls a Lincoln, I'll be right along side you.

Firecracker048 wrote:

marusai wrote:

Øsiris wrote:Capatalist democracy's have made the most progress in history. Socialism Crashed and burned. Literally. Even China refers to itself a s a republic. Socialism failed and always will it defy's human nature and thus cannot prevail.

What does that have to mean?

First of all Socialism is being victorious in all over the world ,except a short step backwards in the 1990, but since then it is growing with a fast pase.

And what do you mean by republic? Socialism/Socialists are responsible for the existance of most republics. USSR was a union of 15 Republics, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Vietnam, Cuba, Angola... all of them are Republics.

So what do you want to say?

well lets here what i gotta say, ehh?
People in democracy=free
socailism/communist dictarotiships=not so free
explain? here:
They are forced to live under an iron fist and literaly have close to 0 free will. explain that

Bush style of governement=less free
DARE TO PRONOUNCE "THE PACIFISM ROCKS" IN PUBLIC PLACE IN USA AND YOU'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!!

Privaten wrote:USSR's economy crashed a burned, a communist (which is an extreme form of socialism) was what it was. Russia, now a Capitalist economy with a flat tax is expanding on a rate like never before. It is how they are manageing to stay such a powerful nation even though what they just went through.

Capitalism works, look at America, the English Commonwealth, France, Germany, Canada. They are the most successful nations. China is making more capitalistic changes and reforms, and what happened? Their economy is beginning to rival the United States. The United States, the last major superpower. USSR literally fell apart. Two major systems. One worked (capitalism) and one didn't (communism, an extreme form of socialism).

I see this, Capitalism, with a few regulations (to stop inflation and high costs), but they would be only supplementary. People need motivation and since money has become what everyone wants, they can do it.

Successful is france (example)?
_10% of people without jobs (not because thye want, but because they CANT
_delocalisations
_more & more before-revolution-of-1789-kind-of-governement
_Vichy (this cowardy sh*tty gov who was dog of germany) look alike immigration ministry (liberal candidate and extrem right are those who will do it if they win elections)
need I say more??
That's what liberal politic is!!!
Btw dont say I know nothing I elarn economy at high school so I know Keynesism and Adam Smith, liberalism etc

marusai wrote:

Øsiris wrote:Capatalist democracy's have made the most progress in history. Socialism Crashed and burned. Literally. Even China refers to itself a s a republic. Socialism failed and always will it defy's human nature and thus cannot prevail.

What does that have to mean?

First of all Socialism is being victorious in all over the world ,except a short step backwards in the 1990, but since then it is growing with a fast pase.

And what do you mean by republic? Socialism/Socialists are responsible for the existance of most republics. USSR was a union of 15 Republics, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Vietnam, Cuba, Angola... all of them are Republics.

So what do you want to say?

The USSR dominated its subjects and slowly tried to asorb the free nations fo the world. They failed. They were and Empire not some glorious civilization. Stalin was a dictator and he seeked power. Every "socialist" nation is ruled by a dictator. look at Cuba. Look at North Korea. All humans desire power. When someone gets it they won't give it up.

if you want an example besides russia of people being "happy" under commumisim, look no further the hungary during the 50's

and Apophis The Great
people say pacifisim rocks all the time in the us
and not alot happen to then expect a verbal bashing

Apophis America is not some evil empire and public disturbances are not the grand arena. We have rights and opinions you just see the biased ones on the news.

Where to start, where to start. Well, let's start with socialism. Yes, in theory, it is a wonderful idea. Unfortunately, it seems to rely a flawed component for success, humans. No one will share everything they own with others. Those that do are either extremely pious and giving, or dead. Also, a true socialist government will never exist, as true socialism calls for no need for government. At best, you will have government that plays the role of Big Brother, elevated above every -one and -thing to 'guide' the nation, but then again, that's not equality for everyone, is it? So, how can you call for a true socialist government when that means no government at all.

However, I agree with spinal that the United States is not a true capitalist country. First, if it was there would be no food stamps, welfare, Social Security, or anything such as that. Secondly, the Democrats and Republicans have both turned the government of circus acts which attempt to impress voters but do very little to move the country toward any meaningful direction. The Democrats need to step up and lead the way toward doing something instead of assuming they have the mandate of the people because they now have a slim majority in Congress (Yes, some representative was stupid enough to claim that).

BTW, about the European countries mentioned as socialist. What do you think their tax rate is? I heard Germany is around 40%, to pay for state broadcasting (no commercials) and universal health care, among other things.

Øsiris wrote:Apophis America is not some eil empire and public disturbances are not the grand arena. We have rights and opinions you just see the biased ones on the news.

Too true. And our politics as well.

The lack of Knowledge voiced by our worldy neighbors amazes me sometimes. Americans are often times called ignorant but I seem to know much of world events and polotics that are often poorly returned when it comes to the US.

Because we are represented by our politicians and our celebrities. What impression would you have of America if you saw through such a twisted and naive windom?

why not a mixed economy?

I dont see how government type and economy type have to be connected?

anyway back to mixed economy. In Ireland that is what we have. It's basically capitalist, and doing pretty well. But the government maintains control over some areas that wouldnt be profitable but are necessary. for example a country bus route might cost 500euro a day but only has 10 passengers. no company would operate this so the government runs the state bus service. same with electricty, gas, and so on.

Personally i think mixed is the best form of economy, ppl can get rich and those that need essentials get them. life as in nature is survival of the fittest. in human terms that also means wealthiest and best looking aswell as fittest.

as for government i believe democracy is a terrible idea, im all for a fascist government or atleast a monarch. the greatest ever government was the roman way. i dont care what ppl say about how these governments are evil thats crap what you think is evil and what i think are evil are two different things.

Tollan Phoenix wrote:Because we are represented by our politicians and our celebrities. What impression would you have of America if you saw through such a twisted and naive windom?

It would be extremely low

Tollan Phoenix wrote:BTW, about the European countries mentioned as socialist. What do you think their tax rate is? I heard Germany is around 40%, to pay for state broadcasting (no commercials) and universal health care, among other things.

Thank you, Tollen. Europe is hardly what I would consider capitalist.

Firecracker048 wrote:people say pacifisim rocks all the time in the us
and not alot happen to then expect a verbal bashing

Indeed. We would have very few celebrities left if our goverment pulled the same stunts it did in WW1.

Bush style of governement=less free

Tell me, when you learned all that economy, did you also read up on history?
Lincoln imposed Martial law,
An actual propaganda bureau was created during WW1,
WW2 saw the detention of Japanese Americans,
Vietnam witnessed a campus shooting,
etc. etc. etc.
.....
To cry foul over things like the patriot act, is silly to me;
It's all been done before, and while that does not mean some things should not be reapeted,
it does not give grounds for crying "Neo-Hitler! Neo-Hitler!".

Øsiris wrote:

Tollan Phoenix wrote:Because we are represented by our politicians and our celebrities. What impression would you have of America if you saw through such a twisted and naive windom?

It would be extremely low

I, being 15, am more knowledgable than most of our celberties and some well known politicians. I'm also not one to fall for propaganda and what people say. I was raised Liberal with next to no one Conservative in my life (except a couple of my uncles whom I only saw at "get-togethers"). I now live with my dad and mom, actually read and analyze my histroy and news for myself and not have someone do it for me. I am now Conservative because I educated myself. (this is by American standards btw, somewhere else you may be conservative and think COMPLETELY differently).