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Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:46 am
by UBERN00B!
[TI]FreeSpirit wrote:This case has recently bin brought to us. Someone allowed Elledan to return. IMO as person no biggie. As mod i look further then all of this though. What i predicted in the mod section has occured this has become nothing more then a big witch hunt. We kept this silence yes why? to prevent flaming and bashing like this. Even the mods are devided over this case. It saddens me to see BW leave for this as i respect him a lot as a Moderator. But its his oppinion. To continue this witch hunt will solve nothing and really nothing at all. A real man once said. It's easy to hold a grudge againts someone but it takes honor to forgive people for their mistakes.


I don't see any flaming or bashing going on. Perhaps an increased distrust towards the Mods Council of Command but no abuse to the player in question. I see people calmly stating that they don't agree with her being let back. Neither for her ingame or forum actions. Mordack is correct in his statement that she abused the trust of this community. Not one respondee has called Elladan any names. We don't like the situation and we have mentioned it. Is that no longer allowed under this Brave New World? Don't nanny us in the name of protecting us. Most people here are capable of having a rational discussion, especially now that time has passed. I am insulted that you think so little of us quite frankly. :?

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:59 am
by Cole
The fact I forgave her is clearly not that I feel what she did was nothing, it's because of how she's, that I forgave her, 99.9% of any other person in the game would have done it it would have took longer alot for me to forgive the person, if ever.
She's really nice person when you talk to her, very intelligent (I sometimes feel silly compared to her, and according to my teachers I'm quite intelligent and could do long studies [OMG!!!]) and very cultured. Very rare to find such people on the game, I mean that she has very good english, she spokes well other languages, she's nice, intelligent, funny, she's not a dude (yep there are too much dudes around in this game!!! LOL), and many other things I could say. Not that you all ar bad, far far from that it is of course, just that she's unique and that thing makes her so great in my eyes :).
Don't get me wrong, I find what she did bad, but well past is past isn't it?

And well I don't care what you think of why I talk so :lol: :lol: think what you want I could NOT care less 8)

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:07 am
by theMinistry
Im bored..what shall i do today?

Oh, i Know! Ill pretend im seriously ill for a few weeks, then pretend ive fallen into a coma! That will be soooo much fun!

The above is a statement which SHOULD NEVER be the sort of behaviour people are ever forgiven for...

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:12 am
by Cole
Seen that way it looks so, but that's not the whole story...

Seriously I really know how putting things out of a contest can change vision of things...experienced it ALOT :wink:

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:21 am
by Spacey
Plate Face wrote:...the attempt to keep it quiet is a farce...why the person concerned deserves protection considering the issue...


LBWMTE- D4rk S1de wrote:...forum administration protects these people, allows them to come back, keeps their secrets for them, and thesse people freely get to just come back...


Mordack wrote:...the fact the mod team took steps to protect this person. Mind boggling, I tell you.


What are you all talking about? An attempt to keep it quiet? Person getting protection? Keeping secrets?

What active steps did the mod team take to protect someone? What did we do to keep something quiet? How was anyone person protected? What secrets were kept?

You guys are suggesting things without having any basis.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:36 am
by Cole
Spacey wrote:
Plate Face wrote:...the attempt to keep it quiet is a farce...why the person concerned deserves protection considering the issue...


LBWMTE- D4rk S1de wrote:...forum administration protects these people, allows them to come back, keeps their secrets for them, and thesse people freely get to just come back...


Mordack wrote:...the fact the mod team took steps to protect this person. Mind boggling, I tell you.


What are you all talking about? An attempt to keep it quiet? Person getting protection? Keeping secrets?

What active steps did the mod team take to protect someone? What did we do to keep something quiet? How was anyone person protected? What secrets were kept?

You guys are suggesting things without having any basis.

That isn't surprising it happend already and will happen again for many various things!

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:50 am
by Spacey
You're not helping me Apophis... If you have information that you wish to discuss as a forum user then you can do so. Covering up, protecting, hiding secrets, etc. would be me actively withholding you from posting that through mod action: which no mod has done.

You are suggesting that people don't have the whole story but do not disclose it...why?

Seen that way it looks so, but that's not the whole story...

Seriously I really know how putting things out of a contest can change vision of things...experienced it ALOT


My posting here is by no mean a defence of anyone. I just want to make sure that people have their facts straight.

Being privy to sensitive(the purpose of this topic) and confidential information(the identities of all posters, be that real names, other multi forum accounts, IPs, etc.), I reserve the right to withhold my personal opinion.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:57 am
by Cole
I know no mod force me to not post ;)...
But well anyway I know most of people dont give a rat what whole story is, those who forgave Elladan dont care as they probably know whole story, and most of those who hate her will most likely dont give a rat what caused her to do so :evil:

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:05 am
by Spacey
You're not doing much by saying there is a whole story and not posting it. The post is then of no consequence, and provides little or no insight into the issue from whomsoevers point of view.

If you're not going to post anything of consequence/importance, then it might be better for you to avoid posting, because right now you're not doing anything...just saying there might, possibly, kinda, sorta be reasons for what happened in the past.

Whoever this is about has a voice.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:15 am
by Cole
Well I didnt say anything yet as I dont have permission given yet and I'll ask firstly the permission to said person we talk about, about me being able to post it or not. She's not on atm so I'll not post until I'm given (or not, if not i'll not post) permission.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:17 am
by Spacey
since it would seem that you are the official representative

and you say you...

...dont have permission..


then perhaps it would be best to not post and to stop spamming here?

leave people to ask what questions they may.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:26 am
by Cole
Spacey wrote:since it would seem that you are the official representative

and you say you...

...dont have permission..


then perhaps it would be best to not post and to stop spamming here?

leave people to ask what questions they may.

I'm the official representative but that doesnt mean I dont have to ask first, it's personal things afterall...And if I "spam" here is that I cant stand posts like theMinistry's one..

Well the reason Elladan made up that story is that she suffered a loss in her circle, so her psycholog told her to write a story to heal her heart and mind of the said loss, to tell what happend like often psychologs ask (as far as i know). So she decided to make it, but chose the forum, didnt realize damages that could have been done in future, but when you are in that situation, we cant really ask you to be very carefull and do things right like a person without such problems would do. She changed the situation of people who were involved, and took the place of the victim, while the passed friend was the one talking, here. That's why she did all of that, ingame and here. Thats why also I cant stand stupid pms like one in the topic I mentionned, when you take things out of contest having no clues of rest isnt needed at all, that doesnt make you better...The context is always very important, you should know it. I'll not bring example unless you ask me to do so to clarify it.
Can you really blame her for what she did to you before knowing whole story and reasons? Yes
Can you do it now? NO!

You thought she was some evil girl making bad plans to hurt people? You are really wrong, but you didnt know, so that can be understood. But if you still hate her same now, then I have nothing else to say to you that I'll never speak again or ever to you, never (if I find it out) ;)

I hope I didnt make too much nonsense :)

~~Apophis~~

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:36 am
by Spacey
My point is you could have asked before posting, because you are doing is creating more question when you post cryptically and without really saying anything...it's like coming to a press conference without the facts...

Take the point of view of someone who doesn't know what is going on. What would this look like to them? Some people say that secrets were hidden, someone was helped, etc, when not such action was taken...and you are posting like you know about area 51, but aren't saying anything...

My presence here is to stop rumours that there was some secret mod action to protect someone, or that we were hiding things from the rest of the forum. My questions haven't been answered so I'm not taking it further, but am waiting to see if there is a question.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:47 am
by Psi Kiya Trist
UBERN00B! wrote:I don't see any flaming or bashing going on. Perhaps an increased distrust towards the Mods Council of Command but no abuse to the player in question. I see people calmly stating that they don't agree with her being let back. Neither for her ingame or forum actions. Mordack is correct in his statement that she abused the trust of this community. Not one respondee has called Elladan any names. We don't like the situation and we have mentioned it. Is that no longer allowed under this Brave New World? Don't nanny us in the name of protecting us. Most people here are capable of having a rational discussion, especially now that time has passed. I am insulted that you think so little of us quite frankly. :?


well, what if flaming wasn't the only reason the mods couldn't tell you? what if telling you would violate a mod rule for privacy of the users?
from my previous experiance i know that such a rule exists. and would be one of the main reasons why telling you, would be a BAD thing. BW didn't appear to like that side of the rule, thus broke it, and left the mods.

so, tell me, would you rather have your privacy broken, by a mod who got that info by abusing their power? or would you rather the mods do nothing and let you yourself tell people both in your own time, and own way.

the real truth of the matter many of you probably don't know, is that the mods WERE doing something, they were attempting to have jadzia tell you herself, that she was Elladan. and she was trying to, but it was assumed not everyone would be cool headed if she just came out and said it. that was my advice, and judging from BW's reaction, i was partially right.
i talked to her about it several times, due to my friendship with her.

so, steps were taken to inform the community, but the problem of privacy infringement was something some wanted to ignore.

also, for those who are wondering. the story of her choice to do that, is because a friend of hers went into a coma first, then eventually died, and as a way of dealing with the grief, suggested by a doctor to write down the story in a reflecting light... she did. on these forums, with her as the central character. eventually, yes, she realised it was a bad idea, but by then, it was almost already out. once it was discovered, many people DID hate her for it.
i know she was banned from the forums without a valid rule violation(which is differant than tok`ra cause he broke many rules)
she was banned ingame for multi'ing, and then, later unbanned by intercession from someone the administration trusts.(which i've done in other cases before) on a condition that IF she did it again, she WOULD be permabanned from the game/forums.(and as a side effect breaking whatever trust i had left in her, and ending our friendship)
then i, as head admin of the time, felt it reasonable that since NO rules were broken by her on the forums,(deceit is not covered under "abusive language") and that the ingame administration had seen fit to give her a second chance, i would give her one on the forums as well.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 12:05 pm
by Big Brother
I'm sorry but the SGW community on a whole wanted her and her deception out of here.

She only stopped when she did because she had been caught out well and truely, who knows where it would have ended.

Saying she will be permabanned if she does it again will be no constulation to those she deceives in the meantime.

Dark Apophis she did try to spin us the "my pyschologist" bull when she was caught out. Do a forum search for more details/ relevant threads.

She caused many good ppl hurt and to leave game, but those that want to give her a second chance or is it third are welcome to her.

Just don't come crying on here cos I'll be first to say "Told You So".