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I can see where Mojo Rising is going with this (Stepped ATs for personal attacks with no reductions). I cant see why anyone would do 1/3rd attacks. I belive players should have a chance to save the account they worked so hard for. Currently every player is given a chance to save themself if they are active, it should reamain so.

There must be another answer, many players can build bigger defences if they wished. Just like Main it puts units at risk. If an attacker has to put units at risk to breeach that defence then the units are vulnerable to Assassins. Networked systems cannot be untrained I belive, and by making it where normal attackers can't be untrained after they have been used for 24hours then they will be also be vulnerable.

There is a double edge to having Attackers help with defence, it would allow them to be massed with the defence.... So who does it help the agressor or defender?

Rank mods are the problem. They need to be changed where accounts cannot sit down low and peck away at those above with minimal to no consequences.

Some may be benevolent with the power to destroy accounts, but having that power available will cause a lot of grief to innocent players just for others sport.

Thufir_Hawat wrote:I can see where Mojo Rising is going with this (Stepped ATs for personal attacks with no reductions). I cant see why anyone would do 1/3rd attacks. I belive players should have a chance to save the account they worked so hard for. Currently every player is given a chance to save themself if they are active, it should reamain so.

There must be another answer, many players can build bigger defences if they wished. Just like Main it puts units at risk. If an attacker has to put units at risk to breeach that defence then the units are vulnerable to Assassins. Networked systems cannot be untrained I belive, and by making it where normal attackers can't be untrained after they have been used for 24hours then they will be also be vulnerable.

There is a double edge to having Attackers help with defence, it would allow them to be massed with the defence.... So who does it help the agressor or defender?

Rank mods are the problem. They need to be changed where accounts cannot sit down low and peck away at those above with minimal to no consequences.

Some may be benevolent with the power to destroy accounts, but having that power available will cause a lot of grief to innocent players just for others sport.

See it's NOT like main for most users, expect Reborn and STI.

When your play main, the main guys with lots of UU have large ups. Meaning they can replace the loses. They need to do it with UP, instead of buying or raiding it. but they can do it slowly.

Now with ascension, The Large players Have the smallers UPs. In the case of they guys we are annoyed with, they have about 5x my up. So tell me how i can build a larger defence? Sure i put 1bil planets into defence. I should then be safe, forawhile, So i've reduced my income by 1/3, oh and if i got 1bil planets as supers i need .5 bil as Assaisns or else i'm just going to lose the supers. Then i also need .1-2 bil in intel, to make sure my defences weapons don't go missing. So Say i had 3bil army size. I've got 1.7 bil into Defence making sure that my other 1.3 bil worth of income is secured. Now i got my nice 15mil up. So i can build slowly to my income. BUT oh wait. ( Losing about 500k a day)

I've got someone who likes to farm me. They got 80mil up. Damn you know what that means, they go and not log in for 14 days, 2 weeks, or log in but save attack turns, then when the 2 weeks are up, they train up ALL of there planets 1120mil of them into supers, and then farm me, or if they want mass me.

So no it's NOT like main!

Fixes, max weapons go up in price, Set them at say 2bil, per most expensive. and have that as a start. then have them increase in cost 1% a day, at the same rate as the APP is given.

Your right this will hurt the smaller accounts, for about what 3 days!

Remove the % cap. Or max it out at 50%, or alternate, by having 5 days with reduced growth and 5 days at normal growth.
Remove Rank mods, and the limits on attacking anyone.

Change the Descension attack, so that it takes 99 turns to do an attack however if your really overpower your target, that for the % you over killed, you get turns back.

meaning
you attacked with 99mil impladed damaged, the guy defended with 1mil damage therefore you only got to hit him for a max of 1mil damage. Meaning you used 1/99 of the turns needed, therefore you get 98 turns back!

I just do not want to keep watching power slip out of my hands everytime because the powerful wish to remain powerful. For some of you, you have been playing ascension from day one. Do you honestly think I could or even be allowed to reach the point of power you may be at now? NO, its a never ending growth, I grow a bit, you grow a TON. So instead of trying to change everything in ascension to better the powerful, give your self a challenge and allow the current settings that are auctually helping the weak grow stronger. Then when we reach your level ( and I mean your level, not what you deem to be a threat) then we can get rid of all the restrictions that you so hate. And, when you try to tear us down, make it a one on one effort. Everyone should be allowed to reach a point of power, if it is your friends that got you to where you are, allow those who may not have as many resourceful friends as you do the chance to a place in power you take for granted.

I think the fundamental problem with descension is that when you are descended it is not through a lack of resources... it is through not logging on.

The problem with fixing this is the still enormous power gap between everyone, there is too big a gap!

What about sending people into minus life force? AKA
You hit someone, you can't kill more than the current amount of lf reserves, however if you max out the damage whatever is left over puts their actual life force into minus numbers and before they can put their life force back their reserves they need to put their normal life force back into positive?

This might work to some extent, however it might make it too easy to descend the really weak players for the strong guys and as a result... I think the amount of turns to attack someone (if this was implemented) would need to be increased to 200-500. Now before you complain about this taking forever... you would be doing significantly more damage to them, and there has been increases to ascension turns from 1-3 in the last... well there has been, making it a lot easier to get the turns to descend people.

By doing this, you could probably descend the people you Really wanted to, but if the turns were increased responsibly you could not simply go around smacking people around willy nilly as some of your suggestions would allow I think Mojo.

This would also eliminate the point of having a low life force capacity, as there is still the damage cap to your reserves but no cap on the actual damage. You still can't get descended in under 12 hours however.

As a side point I think this figure should be increased to at least 24 hours or even 48 hours (main ppt style), if this update was introduced responsibly and well only however. Basically if you have the resources to save your ass you can, and your not forced to log in every 12 hours which I can tell you is stressful as hell and probably not good for your mental health.

Mojo how much damage does your attack do uncapped? Would it be possible for a player who has his account in a reasonable state ranked around say... 300-750 to survive a few hits from you before going under?

Cheers,

LZ

PS: Entire server reset conducted once every 2 years would fix the problems I think.

Lord_Zeus wrote:I think the fundamental problem with descension is that when you are descended it is not through a lack of resources... it is through not logging on.

The problem with fixing this is the still enormous power gap between everyone, there is too big a gap!

What about sending people into minus life force? AKA
You hit someone, you can't kill more than the current amount of lf reserves, however if you max out the damage whatever is left over puts their actual life force into minus numbers and before they can put their life force back their reserves they need to put their normal life force back into positive?

This might work to some extent, however it might make it too easy to descend the really weak players for the strong guys and as a result... I think the amount of turns to attack someone (if this was implemented) would need to be increased to 200-500. Now before you complain about this taking forever... you would be doing significantly more damage to them, and there has been increases to ascension turns from 1-3 in the last... well there has been, making it a lot easier to get the turns to descend people.

By doing this, you could probably descend the people you Really wanted to, but if the turns were increased responsibly you could not simply go around smacking people around willy nilly as some of your suggestions would allow I think Mojo.

This would also eliminate the point of having a low life force capacity, as there is still the damage cap to your reserves but no cap on the actual damage. You still can't get descended in under 12 hours however.

As a side point I think this figure should be increased to at least 24 hours or even 48 hours (main ppt style), if this update was introduced responsibly and well only however. Basically if you have the resources to save your ass you can, and your not forced to log in every 12 hours which I can tell you is stressful as hell and probably not good for your mental health.

Mojo how much damage does your attack do uncapped? Would it be possible for a player who has his account in a reasonable state ranked around say... 300-750 to survive a few hits from you before going under?

Cheers,

LZ

PS: Entire server reset conducted once every 2 years would fix the problems I think.

Bah if you have between 300-500, your in a place where you need about at 550 in both attacks, and max life to be a problem. and that's only 300-500 in lifeforce. As for how easy it is to not be descended. It's simple, you get on farm for 3 mins, and then convert to cache. Period, real quick and easy.


AND no there isn't a power gap, at the moment, if your big you get your pants pulled around your angles, and you drop the soap. Now sure there are ways to fix that, frist you can log in EVERY turn, cause that's all someone needs to farm you to turn a profit. Second, you can untrain your planets, so you reduce your income, ofcourse, that's still not going to stop you from being farmed. Third you could get a 10Q tril defence, but even that won't stop some farmers.

As for being caught upto. Lets look

prior to this update.

6 people were around my size, i was then 6 times as many units as the next 5, 10x asmany as the next 10, 20x the next 10, and about 50-1000x as powerful as the next.

Now i've got 6 people around my size, still however i got the top 20, who is not only 50% less powerful as me, there 2bil to my 3bil.
then i've got the next 400, who i am anywhere between 30x to 2x as strong.

Now i think that's a statement that my account along with other have been pretty much wasted.

Lord_Zeus wrote:The problem with fixing this is the still enormous power gap between everyone, there is too big a gap!

Well, first. ONLY income Planets shoude be count for the CAP.
that woude alow us to build better defences...
2nd a CAP shoude be placed like 33% or 50% of SAFE up. example if you have 100 Mill up, you get 33Mill/50Mill + the amount reduced by the CAP...

its crap play a game where every1 will eventually have the same size, and i'm tired adimin "FIX" the game with solutions that will just become obsolete.

Every1 that tried TODAY have at least 1 Bill army, so the excuse of slow the biggest one its NO MORE valid, or needed.

now, we get fleets expensive every 10k, we get charisma really exponencial after 500 (10time more), and after ALL those things to slow us down, we have our UP at 10%???????????

KGC wrote:

Lord_Zeus wrote:The problem with fixing this is the still enormous power gap between everyone, there is too big a gap!

I'm not talking about the gap between 1st and 10th, or 20th and 200th, I'm talking more of the gap between 15th and 500-1000th.

If you take away the damage caps etc right now with no changes to the amounts of turns required to descend etc you'll find the top guys can just slaughter the lower guys. They should be able to beat them - yes, but it should require some effort on their part and imo at least 3-4 days worth of turns. (I think the penalty for descension could be increased to a month as well if this kind of thing was to be introduced)

The gaps have decreased substantially with the update which has made the server more competitive. This is good but in regards to the amount of resources which would be needed for a 1000 ranked person to prevent himself being descended by say you mojo if the caps were removed, I think he wouldn't be able to recover from 1-2 hits. This gap and problem needs to be looked at and a solution achieved which is as fair as possible to all parties, makes the defence of a low life force cap obsolete and means you don't have to log on every 12 hours religeously.

These are some of the issues that need to be worked out imo, are these issues for you or not? And if they are what solutions can you see?

- EDIT -

PSI saying that everyone who tried has 1 b army is crap and you know it, I've sure as hell tried and if I'd continued on my previous course I would have about ~ 125 mil by now, and I certainly was trying.

Honestly, most all active players should be on the path to the cap.

With a single 100kUP ascension, it is then just a matter of a few months to get there now. No minimum ascensions will not help, just like they never had. It does still take sacrafice. Now though with the dropping DMU prices just about anyone can do the same with a few trillion Naq.

I though do not enjoy hearing players complain about how, slow their new growth past 2B is while they are the same ones selling the DMU instead of reinvesting it into their account.

The Idea of having weapons not being sold 24hours after being bought could be amended to weapons can not be sold 24hours after being used. This would allow the DMU sellers their bank while also allowing some additional damage to Snipers.

PSICOLIX wrote:Well, first. ONLY income Planets shoude be count for the CAP.
that woude alow us to build better defences...
2nd a CAP shoude be placed like 33% or 50% of SAFE up. example if you have 100 Mill up, you get 33Mill/50Mill + the amount reduced by the CAP...

its crap play a game where every1 will eventually have the same size, and i'm tired adimin "FIX" the game with solutions that will just become obsolete.

Every1 that tried TODAY have at least 1 Bill army, so the excuse of slow the biggest one its NO MORE valid, or needed.

now, we get fleets expensive every 10k, we get charisma really exponencial after 500 (10time more), and after ALL those things to slow us down, we have our UP at 10%???????????

I like !, just need to raise the cap to 4 bil and start again LOL or not.

Ok i dont agree with the max damage on 1 hit, the 1/3 is fine, but what i think needs to go for def is the rank modifier on the ascended attacks, we can already only do 1/3 max why do they need the rank modifier too, admin would be better just saying ok your ascended attack is over 1mill no soup for you ever,

The fact that someone ranked in the 2k range yet can have as a big ascended attack as us in the top 100, yet we cant hit them cause of the rank mod is a joke, if there active they will see the 1/3 hit, remove the rank mod on ascended attacks, its supposed to be 1 v 1, not 1 v the rank mod, then there LF then them.

Another thing CACHE to LF Reserves should be a 10:1 ratio, that way these people who have billions in cache and a LFR of a 100mill, well losing 1/3 would cost them 300mill LF to recover, as right now there is no difference to the server now, than it was before with someone having 50,000,000/1,000,000 no difference at all...

The 10:1 ratio would work well, take the 90mill reserve and 1/3 max

30mill LFR gone to replace will cost you 300mill cache

DMU to LF at 10mill to 1 would be 3trill dmu, this would stop alot of this try and descend me i have 3bill LF cache hahaha, u see what i mean, also before some guys say but they have a big income, then farm them for it, if you cannot then maybe you shouldn't be trying to descend them.

lol people complaining about top 10 being able to de-ascend people in lower 500's whenever they want, THATS HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO BE. dont go around annoying the big dogs. What do you think would happen if you tried to mass STI in main.

12agnar0k wrote:lol people complaining about top 10 being able to de-ascend people in lower 500's whenever they want, THATS HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO BE. dont go around annoying the big dogs. What do you think would happen if you tried to mass STI in main.

Honestly now adays.

They would mass STI, and then sell there strike and defence, and go on ppt for 8 days. After that they would merlin any planets they have, ofcourse after that 8 days of ppt are up, they might be able to mass him again. then they wait 4-days while their account gets the odd hit, and repeat the 8 days of ppt, with the odd bit of massing inbetween.

The simple fix is to make it where a big account takes the negatives if attacking downward. If a small account or sniper account attacks upwards they should have NO protection at all, none.

Thufir_Hawat wrote:Honestly, most all active players should be on the path to the cap.

With a single 100kUP ascension, it is then just a matter of a few months to get there now. No minimum ascensions will not help, just like they never had. It does still take sacrafice. Now though with the dropping DMU prices just about anyone can do the same with a few trillion Naq.

I though do not enjoy hearing players complain about how, slow their new growth past 2B is while they are the same ones selling the DMU instead of reinvesting it into their account.

The Idea of having weapons not being sold 24hours after being bought could be amended to weapons can not be sold 24hours after being used. This would allow the DMU sellers their bank while also allowing some additional damage to Snipers.

To answer your question, Thufir, I am selling DMU because Ascension is dying and will continue to die. I am just trying to turn a profit whilst everyone else thinks it is still going to survive. And seriously, what would I invest it in? Currently the only stat that hasn't been totally nerfed for me would be production enhancements. I could maybe buy six or seven levels a day, if I am lucky. With the same DMU, I can make 300 or 400 bucks REAL money per day. Which would you choose? Believe me, I used to be the idealist and wanted the game to be pure and untainted by money. But then Jason had to keep jacking up the game so that the quick ascenders wouldn't get punished for their bad choices. So now, I am just playing the game for the money. Pure and simple. It's all economics to me. I have paid my rent for the last three months by selling DMU. I see no reason to stop now. I only wished I had started sooner, given what Jason was doing to the game a year ago.