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These philosophical views might be interesting to discuss after a meal, but for the real world it seems rather childish. If anyone was in a crashing airplane, no one would doubt the reality that death is very likely. Science is based on observations, who cares if what we are seeing is not "real" it works. We are all bound by the laws of science, if anyone can contradict them by denying the reality of the laws then I will change my views, sadly in real life no one is a Neo. We are all prisoners of reality, doubting the existence does not break you out of the prison.

Corran Horn wrote:as i've mentioned on multiple other ocassions we are all autonomous multis of spacey

You could have posted it as a bot corran, and sequence of 1's and 0's in cyberspace would not need a laptop to type

as I've said everybody here is probably a bot of multi of somebody else, and I've probably been talking to the same 3 people for over 2 years...

a reality debate could be interesting

To help me sleep I used to try to disprove time travel, worked well

Maybe

thats the whole purpose of the debate on reality though come_forth is because we honestly and sincerely believe something exists or doesnt exist effects whether or not it is a fact. There is no real judge as to whether or something is a fact though because time is a man made concept but we live our lives according to that belief and therefore we believe that death is a natural part of the life cycle which takes place over time. If time didnt exist would death then be eliminated or are we to dogmatically entrenched in the belief that time is real and therefore all side-effects of time are necessary? Few people have seen extraordinary things in their life-times but other who are with them did not see the same thing or anything at all so they chalk it up to their own faults or convince themselves it just was not there and how are we to tell that what they saw is not simply another part of reality that we just dont believe exists.

Our system of measuring time might be subjective, but time is an objective fact. An action causes a reaction and between the action and reaction is a thing called time. The universe is evolving, things change, time happens. I guess that the dinosaurs just died because they invented time as well. This modern denial of science is disturbing. As I stated earlier we are all slaves to reality, you can pretend time does not exist but the fact remains that you will die.

come_forth I agree with you that time is a reality and no matter what you do you cannot escape it, but I was simply trying to show you what the alternative belief is.

How do you know you die, no one has seen after death so how do you know they are simply not living on another plane and what we percieve as death is just simply the means to get there? Its a totally subjective and utterly decieving debate thats why I dont want to get involved in it

Yea, I know that there are other views especially eastern ones. Someone could win a debate by claiming we are just a brain in a vat, but in the end I doubt anyone believes that. I think that death is the end because the brain stops working.

I am in agreement with you its fun to talk about but to really debate it is illogical



btw its ok I forgive you

Yep, that is why I am not as into philosophy as I used to be. How many angels could fit on the head of a needle? Does it matter?

well that depends on whether or not you believe angels have a definitive form or a definitive size or if they even exist at all. That is worse than this debate.


My personal favorite tho is if you are in a car traveling the speed of light and you turn on the headlights what happens?

omg...

Angnoch wrote:well that depends on whether or not you believe angels have a definitive form or a definitive size or if they even exist at all. That is worse than this debate.


My personal favorite tho is if you are in a car traveling the speed of light and you turn on the headlights what happens?

ok, reality is based on perceptions, correct? so as most of you know you can doubt your perceptions but you cant doubt your thinking and whatnot, so your brain is a defintate but your perceptions arent. so then your mind is a definate and your perceptions build your idea of reality. now take a hammer and bash your brain in, or hop in your car and drive into a tree. you will probably get brain damage so your perceptions change, they become all messed up and you are no longer able to articulate yourself in the same sort of fashion that you could. so the thinking thing that cannot be denied is directly connected to the impact of your perceptions, your senses and what not. the reality that you encounter directly impacts upon the thinking thing that you are.
whether or not it is reality or not the sensory perception that you as a thinking entity encounters stipulates the entirety of who and what you are, so i dont think its a great leap to say that they are your reality. your perceptions constitute, feed and dictate the thinking you so for all intentional purposes they are real. the reality you experiance that gives the thinking thing in your head something to think about is real because without it then your mind would be nothing, no stimulation, no perception no nothing.

as for time. time is undeniable as everything you percieve moves in a linear motion, one thing happens after another, you cannot percieve in any other way and so the time that we have created ie. seconds and whatnot is the means of measureing this linear track that our perceptions are subjegated to.

The Hamburglar wrote:ok, reality is based on perceptions, correct? so as most of you know you can doubt your perceptions but you cant doubt your thinking and whatnot, so your brain is a defintate but your perceptions arent. so then your mind is a definate and your perceptions build your idea of reality. now take a hammer and bash your brain in, or hop in your car and drive into a tree. you will probably get brain damage so your perceptions change, they become all messed up and you are no longer able to articulate yourself in the same sort of fashion that you could. so the thinking thing that cannot be denied is directly connected to the impact of your perceptions, your senses and what not. the reality that you encounter directly impacts upon the thinking thing that you are.
whether or not it is reality or not the sensory perception that you as a thinking entity encounters stipulates the entirety of who and what you are, so i dont think its a great leap to say that they are your reality. your perceptions constitute, feed and dictate the thinking you so for all intentional purposes they are real. the reality you experiance that gives the thinking thing in your head something to think about is real because without it then your mind would be nothing, no stimulation, no perception no nothing.

lol...you cant say they are your reality. All the perceptions we have, even the ones that effect ourselves and the ability to perceive can be doubted, and questioned, even if the effect is apparently real. You cant go to a brain damaged person and see if they still think the same, who you can do is perceive what you think is a brain damaged person acting unlike the normal. It is the same as asking a dead person what it is like to be dead.

The perceptions you talk about as well can just be a figment of your imagination. Made up. They come from a thinking thing, so they come from somewhere to. There is no indubitable proof through perceptions of the external world. Only that you at the very second, in the immediate present, exist. You cannot say you HAVE existed, and you cannot say you will exist.

Now as the general consensis is, no one wants to debate what reality is according to the rules, this topic no longer belongs here.
**MOVED**

Spacey wrote:
To help me sleep I used to try to disprove time travel, worked well

I think we should prove time travel

Angnoch wrote:because we honestly and sincerely believe something exists or doesnt exist effects whether or not it is a fact. There is no real judge as to whether or something is a fact (...) Few people have seen extraordinary things in their life-times but other who are with them did not see the same thing or anything at all so they chalk it up to their own faults or convince themselves it just was not there and how are we to tell that what they saw is not simply another part of reality that we just dont believe exists.

and here our favourite feline appears on stage. as we know from the quantum theory only observation determines the actual state of things. so the schroedinger's cat is dead OR alive when we open a box and take a look at it but before we do that it's dead AND alive at the same time, which makes him the most monstrous monster of all times, worse even than a zombie cat, (i wonder why there's no horror movies about cats that are dead and alive at the same time)
i know it's weird, and even einstein said

albert einstein wrote:i like to think that the moon is there even if i am not looking at it.

but what can we do?

Angnoch wrote:How do you know you die, no one has seen after death so how do you know they are simply not living on another plane and what we percieve as death is just simply the means to get there?

aye! one doesn't die. one ASCENDS.

Angnoch wrote:

Come_Forth wrote:How many angels could fit on the head of a needle?

well that depends on whether or not you believe angels have a definitive form or a definitive size or if they even exist at all.

it also depends on the size of that particular head of a needle

Angnoch wrote:My personal favorite tho is if you are in a car traveling the speed of light and you turn on the headlights what happens?

the "headlights on" tell tale light lights up.

but let's think of this scenario:
ya're traveling at the speed of light (c) in a spaceship and know there's other spaceship traveling at the speed c and ya'ra gonna crash into it if ya don't do anything.

so ya need to destroy the other ship with a laser beam (the red line). laser is a light so it travels at the speed c.

what happens?

from your point of view the laser beam "escapes" forward from the barrel of yer gun at the speed c and will destroy the incoming ship (the speed of light in a vacuum is the same for all observers, regardless of their relative motion or of the motion of the source of the light)


but from the other ship's point of view both you and your laser reach it at the same time.


so:
from yers point of view they are dead, ya're alive.
from theirs point of view they are dead, so are you.

so??


the universe colapses... ???

traveling over the speed of light requires a wormhole or some other means of "ripping" the fabric of spacetime... Before we argue about you destroying the other ship or not-how do we know that those weapons will actually function outside of standard spacetime?