June 29th Updates (big / many...)

[TheKracken]

will any one anser my questions about the survays

[Neimenljivi]

[spoiler]

[spoiler]

i like em too, but not going to make this release.
not to say cannot be added if deemed required up the road slightly...

Planet theft current issues :
- Target can be stripped of all planets
- Target can only get back 1 of his planets
- Attacker usually has nothing of value to mass back

Possible solutions :

- Target can be stripped of all planets
- Target can only get back 1 of his planets

- Maximum 5 planets lost/day
- Make recovering planets only take 8 hours before they can take another planet. This allows an attacker to recover at least 2 planets before the protection kicks in... IF he notices quick enough.( It takes 12 hours before an attacker can protect the planet )

- Attacker usually has nothing of value to mass back

- Attacker must fully arm all slots on MS (*excluding fleets. Only Volleys and Shields [Thx SS])
- Fleets cannot be sold off before the 12 hours it takes for the planet to be under the attackers control.
- MS cannot be sent away for 24 hours from the time the planet was taken. ( Make it the equivalent of sending the MS out for a planet )
- PPT cannot be set for 12 hours after a planet theft to give the target a chance at retaliation.

Players please poke holes in these ideas.

I don't feel you should reward failure (allowing your planet to be stolen) with something more to mass than already there.


-Fleets can be sold now right after attacking, meaning you only get to use the fleets on that planet or
-Full MS doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but it's not really related to the Planet. If a planet has a big defense, then you need to arm the fleets, they in and of themself are something to mass.
-MS can not be sent out for 4 hours I believe already? That's more than enough time for an active enough alliance to mass the persons fleets or MS already.
-PPT cannot be sent? So basically you have to choose whether to set PPT or steal a planet for the next day.

Decently defended planets already take multiple turns, where you could lose your fleets to another Mothership, a Player being online and moving platforms onto the planet or even merlining the planet, yet you want to make it riskier for those stealing the planets? I'm pretty sure it already is risky and expensive to mass planets, and with all the other Planet updates it makes even less sense.

[/spoiler]
Tell me BMMJ13, where is the risk if you can sell your fleets right after taking a planet? If anything you shouldn't be allowed to sell them off during that 4 hour window so that there IS something to retaliate against.

@ Forum
Could you include fleets not being sellable during that 4 hour period? A person should be able to strike back at what hurt them afterall.

Also if not in this group of updates could you consider the splitting of different types of messages in a future update(maybe when you re-evaluate the new updates). Peace/war settings, alliance messages, regular messages, market messages, etc...

Wepwaet, like BMMJ13 pointed out, should one be rewarded for playing carelessly or just having an ego big enough for thinking his planets are untouchable and being proven wrong?

For big planets you need about 30 mins to mass them down, you usually have your MS full just in case someone decides to mass you while you're doing it so you can mass a full MS in next 4 hours already.
Like said - if you're online you can move platforms which can destroy fleets, you can also merlin planet or mass opponent's fleets.
It's enough expensive and risky, the planet massing, as it is.

@Forum - thanks for decreasing the percentage to 15

~N

[/Spoiler]

Just because you build a full MS to protect your fleets doesn't mean most people do Neim. Forum put in the 4 hour rule to give people a chance to strike back at those who would hit and flee, this would just close a loophole in that rule. It's a good thing to ask for since Forum is trying to close loopholes used by those who hit others and risk nothing themselves.

Actually yes anyone that masses a planet worth of massing does have at least full shield power normally

[MaxSterling]

I don't feel you should reward failure (allowing your planet to be stolen) with something more to mass than already there.

You're thinking of one scenario. What about the lone wolf player that gets planet stripped by an alliance of snipers?

-Full MS doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but it's not really related to the Planet.

When you send a MS out to find a planet, it's not the fleets that are gone... it's the entire MS. Therefore I'm guessing that the MS is responsible for towing the planet, while the fleets are strictly used to engage the defenses.

-MS can not be sent out for 4 hours I believe already? That's more than enough time for an active enough alliance to mass the persons fleets or MS already.

I thought it was only 3 hours, but my reasoning for extending this was because a planet is not in your control and cannot be protected for 12 hours, therefore the MS should need to tow the planet the full distance. Not be sent out to find another planet when the stolen planet isn't even in your control yet.

A compromise could be that en route to bringing your freshly stolen planet back to your territory, the fleets act as temporary planet defense.

-PPT cannot be sent? So basically you have to choose whether to set PPT or steal a planet for the next day.

If a planet can't be protected until 12 hours has passed, then PPT shouldn't be permitted to be set. This was to stop everyone from hit and run without a chance at retaliation. Imagine having 5 planets stripped and all planets dumped with nothing to retaliate against.

Decently defended planets already take multiple turns, where you could lose your fleets to another Mothership, a Player being online and moving platforms onto the planet or even merlining the planet, yet you want to make it riskier for those stealing the planets? I'm pretty sure it already is risky and expensive to mass planets, and with all the other Planet updates it makes even less sense.

You got your 15% back for planet defense : fleet power ratio. You're also only considering one scenario. What if one of those resource accounts with 10 - 200k UP planets gets planet stripped? Would you rather they quit or have a chance at getting 2 of them back and retaliate?

[Forum]

i do not believe you need to be 18
the return is varialbe based on how much the 3rd party company wants the survey done. a few hundred billion naq and up is the return...
i am sure they limit it to once for each survey, and there are only so many surveys they want done....
in short, its a perk, not an unlimited source of funds

could some one explain the survays for naq to me
is there a limit
do you have to be 18
how much you get
and other stuff about it

[Forum]

for planet theft/retaliaation/etc i would like to stick to what we have now for launch, and yes, we can look at other factors surrounding planet stealing at 'pulsecheck' whether this be inability to sell fleets for xx hours, take 2 planet back in 24hours, etc etc

and for messages, a 'type' flag should not be impossible

as for 'too complex' and needing a single place for instruction/rules/how to... ya - i guess its about time the help guide was rewritten

[BMMJ13]

I don't feel you should reward failure (allowing your planet to be stolen) with something more to mass than already there.

You're thinking of one scenario. What about the lone wolf player that gets planet stripped by an alliance of snipers?

Planet stripping is a part of the game, I don't think it's necessary to change how it works any more than the 5 planets in 24 hours already. Maybe the ability to steal more back in that time period or have less stat losses when stolen.

-Full MS doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but it's not really related to the Planet.

When you send a MS out to find a planet, it's not the fleets that are gone... it's the entire MS. Therefore I'm guessing that the MS is responsible for towing the planet, while the fleets are strictly used to engage the defenses.

With planets, you aren't allowed to do anything for the 4(maybe 3) hours after stealing it, as it's towing the planet, however since it is closer it does not take as long to be back in use. I'm pretty sure most people build up their MS anyway if hitting a planet, unless they are taking a 0 defense planet, and then why reward someone for having a defenseless planet with something to mass?[/quote]

-MS can not be sent out for 4 hours I believe already? That's more than enough time for an active enough alliance to mass the persons fleets or MS already.

I thought it was only 3 hours, but my reasoning for extending this was because a planet is not in your control and cannot be protected for 12 hours, therefore the MS should need to tow the planet the full distance. Not be sent out to find another planet when the stolen planet isn't even in your control yet.

A compromise could be that en route to bringing your freshly stolen planet back to your territory, the fleets act as temporary planet defense.

As I said above, the planet is not in the abyss of space, but in a closely spied realm where it takes much less time. You tell your Mothership where to go, so it takes much less time to get there than randomly searching. Fleets are already quite expensive while providing no real boost other than expensively helping a Mothership strike or destroying planets. Giving them any other use with their current cost and power would not work.[/quote]

-PPT cannot be sent? So basically you have to choose whether to set PPT or steal a planet for the next day.

If a planet can't be protected until 12 hours has passed, then PPT shouldn't be permitted to be set. This was to stop everyone from hit and run without a chance at retaliation. Imagine having 5 planets stripped and all planets dumped with nothing to retaliate against.

The reason for 12 hours is so that the person can take the planet back, not so that the person can be hit. Once again, I don't understand why you are trying to help those who lose planets at the expense of those who take them. That is like allowing anyone who you farm to mass your strike in the next 12 hours, which really doesn't make sense in the current game sense.[/quote]

Decently defended planets already take multiple turns, where you could lose your fleets to another Mothership, a Player being online and moving platforms onto the planet or even merlining the planet, yet you want to make it riskier for those stealing the planets? I'm pretty sure it already is risky and expensive to mass planets, and with all the other Planet updates it makes even less sense.

You got your 15% back for planet defense : fleet power ratio. You're also only considering one scenario. What if one of those resource accounts with 10 - 200k UP planets gets planet stripped? Would you rather they quit or have a chance at getting 2 of them back and retaliate?

If a person invests that much of their account into something so easily taken, then yes I see no loss in them leaving the game due to it.I don't see how getting the planet back and retaliating are the same idea. Right now someone can abandon a planet as soon as it is stolen, yet it is gone likely for a few hours minimum after that with no option for the owner to get it back besides a % to find it with their own MS. As I said before, allowing multiple stolen back in a certain amount of time, can't abandon a planet for a certain amount of time, loosing less stats to the planet when stolen make sense if you really wish to make planets less volatile (Though I don't agree with it as they provide such a big boost, they shouldn't be "safe") however changing how fleets operate,requiring something else to mass a planet, or postponing PPT due to planet stealing does not make sense as it basically rewards those who mess up with something more to hit back against.

[Wepwaet]

for planet theft/retaliaation/etc i would like to stick to what we have now for launch, and yes, we can look at other factors surrounding planet stealing at 'pulsecheck' whether this be inability to sell fleets for xx hours, take 2 planet back in 24hours, etc etc

and for messages, a 'type' flag should not be impossible

as for 'too complex' and needing a single place for instruction/rules/how to... ya - i guess its about time the help guide was rewritten

I think everyone would love splitting message types up.

Edit: @ Forum
Are platforms and planet defenses supposed to work how they do now, independently or were the platforms supposed to enhance the planet defense?

Thought i'd requote this incase it got overlooked due to the rest of the post not being addressed to you.

[BMMJ13]

[spoiler]

i like em too, but not going to make this release.
not to say cannot be added if deemed required up the road slightly...

Planet theft current issues :
- Target can be stripped of all planets
- Target can only get back 1 of his planets
- Attacker usually has nothing of value to mass back

Possible solutions :

- Target can be stripped of all planets
- Target can only get back 1 of his planets

- Maximum 5 planets lost/day
- Make recovering planets only take 8 hours before they can take another planet. This allows an attacker to recover at least 2 planets before the protection kicks in... IF he notices quick enough.( It takes 12 hours before an attacker can protect the planet )

- Attacker usually has nothing of value to mass back

- Attacker must fully arm all slots on MS (*excluding fleets. Only Volleys and Shields [Thx SS])
- Fleets cannot be sold off before the 12 hours it takes for the planet to be under the attackers control.
- MS cannot be sent away for 24 hours from the time the planet was taken. ( Make it the equivalent of sending the MS out for a planet )
- PPT cannot be set for 12 hours after a planet theft to give the target a chance at retaliation.

Players please poke holes in these ideas.

[/spoiler]
I don't feel you should reward failure (allowing your planet to be stolen) with something more to mass than already there.


-Fleets can be sold now right after attacking, meaning you only get to use the fleets on that planet or
-Full MS doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but it's not really related to the Planet. If a planet has a big defense, then you need to arm the fleets, they in and of themself are something to mass.
-MS can not be sent out for 4 hours I believe already? That's more than enough time for an active enough alliance to mass the persons fleets or MS already.
-PPT cannot be sent? So basically you have to choose whether to set PPT or steal a planet for the next day.

Decently defended planets already take multiple turns, where you could lose your fleets to another Mothership, a Player being online and moving platforms onto the planet or even merlining the planet, yet you want to make it riskier for those stealing the planets? I'm pretty sure it already is risky and expensive to mass planets, and with all the other Planet updates it makes even less sense.

Tell me BMMJ13, where is the risk if you can sell your fleets right after taking a planet? If anything you shouldn't be allowed to sell them off during that 4 hour window so that there IS something to retaliate against.

@ Forum
Could you include fleets not being sellable during that 4 hour period? A person should be able to strike back at what hurt them afterall.

Also if not in this group of updates could you consider the splitting of different types of messages in a future update(maybe when you re-evaluate the new updates). Peace/war settings, alliance messages, regular messages, market messages, etc...

Fleets are so expensive, as they were only 50% back, that I would often Mass planets then go directly on PPT as to spread out the costs of the fleets. The way they are currently set up makes it almost a poor decision to sell them right away, and then I ask, why should a person who is building fleets (only used to mass planets) have to keep the fleets in the open to allow a person with a planet that is massed (planets make the person either make more resources or use less resources doing certain acts, and are dependable and able to be merlined. Fleets provide no real benefit to a persons account unless they have a huge Mothership and use them to expensively augment that.

Should we automatically make a person who masses train that many supers after they had massed, or someone who has sabbed train that many weapons, someone who has farmed keep that much naq out, or to someone who ac's train that many spies?

[Neimenljivi]

Max it used to be 12 so it's not back to 15, but up to 15
If one guy has planetary defenses low enough for some random snipers to take them then he clearly doesn't care about the planets so why shouldn't he lose them?

As it stands - if you take a dual off someone you have to consider yourself VERY lucky if it doesn't get taken back as it cannot be protected for 12 hours. You rarely see someone miss merlins on duals as it is, let alone stealing and keeping it (it's usually 1), now even if there're more duals you wanna give the poor sucker who lost them a chance to get even more of them back and damage the opponent even more?

~N

[Wepwaet]

I equate being able to sell off your fleets right after taking a planet with massing someone while you only have a strike built. They have nothing to retaliate against. Why shouldn't Forum give us a way to fight back as he's doing with those building only strikes?

[Neimenljivi]

I equate being able to sell off your fleets right after taking a planet with massing someone while you only have a strike built. They have nothing to retaliate against. Why shouldn't Forum give us a way to fight back as he's doing with those building only strikes?

It's a big difference between attack weps and fleets. For instance - fleets can be destroyed in 1 hit (if they aren't big enough when you attack a planet) - weps can't. Fleets can be destroyed one by one with normal attacking/defending - weps can only be with sabbing. Fleets get damaged a lot more than attack weps do when massing planetary defenses, they're also a lot more expensive to repair..Could probably name a few more but I'm tired..

Night

~N

[BMMJ13]

I equate being able to sell off your fleets right after taking a planet with massing someone while you only have a strike built. They have nothing to retaliate against. Why shouldn't Forum give us a way to fight back as he's doing with those building only strikes?

Strikes can be used for massing, farming and to a lesser extent massing. Fleets can be used for massing planets and taking planets. Strikes cost 1 tril for a 200 bil strike that takes a long time to be killed, Fleets cost 5 tril for a 200 bil fleet plus an initial outlay of 150 tril, yet can be killed in less than a minute if off nox or if you hit a defense platform. Defenses are off ppt for 3 days a week, Planets are off merlin maybe once a month.

Having to build your mothership to support the fleets in combat would be a more reasonable idea if you are trying to compare it to massing a defense, however for everything else it has no comparison. If you AC someone with 100 mil AC, then now you have to keep that AC trained for 12 hours after so that they can lifer it back so it's fair? Should I get 75% of anyone's Attack Planet boost to my Defense planets so it's fair?

[Forum]

i dont quite understand the Q

Edit: @ Forum
Are platforms and planet defenses supposed to work how they do now, independently or were the platforms supposed to enhance the planet defense?

[BMMJ13]

i dont quite understand the Q

Edit: @ Forum
Are platforms and planet defenses supposed to work how they do now, independently or were the platforms supposed to enhance the planet defense?

I believe, they work together now, the power to hit a natural defense is the only part that is independent, and then blowing up fleets is an independent part related to the platforms.

[Neimenljivi]

Forum a quick question - I understand why you changed the 10x multiplier in covert & AC to a 2x one, but why add a 2x multiplier in defense/strike?
That will unbalance defense & strike vs MS vs strike/def planets big time So why is there a need for the multiplier?

~N