who controls earth?????

[Bull-E]

dont argue


US+ UK are allies


down with china



go nato

[Phoenix of Terra]

Wow, this almost seems like something for This, That and Those

[Mathlord]

Any one of USA, Russia or China could destroy the world...period.

Noone controls the world per say, but that isn't to say US couldn't beat Russia or vice versa...it's just that noone would be left to see the end.

England is a vital country because of it's ties to over a third of the world, which is why US always wants them as allies, plus they're an awesome country with a leader in Tony Blair who is ten times the speaker as Bush. That said, no country can match the US navy, military or air force when considering size, strength and technology.

It's all moot anyway as there will be no big wars anymore as it isn't worth it. We'll just have these little wars like Iraq atm that are just chess matches between bigger powers.

Oh and EPA did come from the TA long long ago. You might not remember that mister omegan as it was before you guys were number one...

Just to remind you Wolf, this was my first post on the topic. And I was referring to some posts one or two pages back from that page. Excuse me for not jumping on the hating of my president bandwagon and, I don't know about you, but I don't find that civil discussion. But that's not the point. My posts were civil for pages and pages. I used facts and logic to prove my point. It was a very nice discussion until you took it more personal. Not me. If you ever look at posts I make, you will see I only get heated when someone gets heated against me. Read your posts and my posts again and you just might see where I'm coming from.

Now to address the issues raised...okay, I already commented on your first post.

Second, actually I've only talked about who has the strongest military. Again, if you read my posts I've complemented the British armed forces up and down this thread. You may have been talking about individual strength, but then there would be no reason to disagree with me all this time, at least so forcefully.

Third, you started the shouting, don't forget that...or did I misinterpret words like pathetic...

Fourth, again if you've read any of my posts ever (I've written thousands of them on this forum even if my post count says otherwise) I would hope you know I'm a bit smarter than to want to actually invade Canada or the UK. I have the greatest respect for my country's allies, as I have said here many MANY times, and to think I was serious is an insult to both my intelligence and yours.

Fifth, insinuations will be dealt with during eleventh. And it's just making a point about nuclear weapons being always an option that if used could win a war instantaneously, to be frank. I pray it never comes to that. But if you'd like, I could talk about our non-nuclear missiles and weaponry that could do just as satisfactory of a job at levelling a country. Every major country in the world had the power all the way back during WWII. But the US, Russia and China could take it to another level.

Sixth, my appologies for apparently misinterpreting your comments about the US needing the British. Of course in this modern era, it is better to have allies for political clout reasons. But in a war/military discussion, that is semi-irrelevant to the posts being made. The US needs the British in that sense because again we care about our image in the world and we want the world to be behind us. That said, we still have been known to do what we feel is right even if it is against the wishes of others.

Seventh, can't comment on that one as I agree with you Wolf. I'm sure every major country in the world has secret facilities. It's just common sense.

Eighth, the UK did play a vital role in the Cold War, but the only reason that war didn't go hot was the American nuclear deterrent. Even then, we almost went to war probably dozens of times.

Ninth, I must disagree again. The US has a jet in the F-22 that's a decade ahead of similar jets around the world. And remember, that's the one that is publicized. As I said in a previous post, there is a reason the US spends 400 billion dollars a year on it's military.

Tenth, yeah not going to comment there, although who wouldn't want Ireland...am I right people?

Eleventh, okay friendly fire. Throughout the history of warfare, there have been incidents of friendly fire. It happens with every military around the world and it is a miracle that it doesn't happen more often. To imply then that it's because of a deficiency of personnel or equipment I find silly, but that's just me.

Twelth, what I think was being referred to was the War of 1812. About that war, the British conquered Washington DC before the US militias could be ready, but the British were thwarted at Baltimore and New Orleans. But that was up in the air and the Americans only won probably because of a hurricane that forced the British army camped in Washington to retreat.

Pasue...this is a long post I know. Almost done.

Thirteenth, I have the utmost respect for what the British military did during WWII and honestly I have serious problems with FDR not joining the war sooner. But that's more about the US people not wanting to get involved in another foreign war at a rough time in US history. The British held out against the German air force and navy and even made headway in Africa before the US got involved. That said, alot of that was from US supplies sent to Britain on non-expiring loans (never have to be paid back I mean) and then it was the power of the US and Russia that was able to bring the war back to Europe. Note that we can't forget Russia in this discussion as they were the ones that suffered great casualties in their determination to rid their land of the Germans. Again, that is not to dock the British in anyway as what they did in holding off and then fighting back against the German air force and navy was unbelievable and truly heroic.

Fourteenth, that's all I've been trying to say, although I might disagree about the individual soldiers as the US has alot of top-notch soldiers. But let's not go there. All I've been stating is that the US army is the stronger overall army, which as in my first post I stated was a combination of size, strength and technology. You were the one that had a problem with that comment and is the only reason we're both now writing posts that are insanely long. But I appreciate that we can see common ground in this discussion.

Fifteenth, as I've stated above, I only pressed the issue and got heated after you already brought it there. I'm saddened that you took it there to begin with and even more saddened you now blame me for that. This didn't have to go this way, but anyone that knows me knows I don't give up when I believe I'm right.

Now I hope this is my last post here as well; if not, let's try to bring up fewer points at a time, okay? I think we're giving people headaches.

[Mordack]

Does Britain have any TOP SECRET places...

Like Area51?

You don't know about it because as is repeated over and over again, we are better at everything.

Now for all you people that go on about how America saved our asses etc etc, "America" didn't get involved until they were brought into the war, not by us, yes some Americans had come over to help before America got involved. Britain chose to enter the war, America was forced into it. Very selfless of you to come and save us and go on and on about it for years.

And what about the school of thought which cites America's post WWI actions as one of the primary factors which led to the second world war? America's refusal to join the League of Nations, which was their own President's vision, undermined the organization significantly. Had the LoN been more effective and done it's job, then the Second World War might never have happened.

[Mathlord]

Does Britain have any TOP SECRET places...

Like Area51?

You don't know about it because as is repeated over and over again, we are better at everything.

Now for all you people that go on about how America saved our asses etc etc, "America" didn't get involved until they were brought into the war, not by us, yes some Americans had come over to help before America got involved. Britain chose to enter the war, America was forced into it. Very selfless of you to come and save us and go on and on about it for years.

And what about the school of thought which cites America's post WWI actions as one of the primary factors which led to the second world war? America's refusal to join the League of Nations, which was their own President's vision, undermined the organization significantly. Had the LoN been more effective and done it's job, then the Second World War might never have happened.

Yeah because the UN with the support of the US is so much better...

[Mordack]

Does Britain have any TOP SECRET places...

Like Area51?

You don't know about it because as is repeated over and over again, we are better at everything.

Now for all you people that go on about how America saved our asses etc etc, "America" didn't get involved until they were brought into the war, not by us, yes some Americans had come over to help before America got involved. Britain chose to enter the war, America was forced into it. Very selfless of you to come and save us and go on and on about it for years.

And what about the school of thought which cites America's post WWI actions as one of the primary factors which led to the second world war? America's refusal to join the League of Nations, which was their own President's vision, undermined the organization significantly. Had the LoN been more effective and done it's job, then the Second World War might never have happened.

Yeah because the UN with the support of the US is so much better...

Well, there hasn't been a third world war yet, so the UN still has one up on the League of Nations.

[Phoenix of Terra]

Does Britain have any TOP SECRET places...

Like Area51?

You don't know about it because as is repeated over and over again, we are better at everything.

Now for all you people that go on about how America saved our asses etc etc, "America" didn't get involved until they were brought into the war, not by us, yes some Americans had come over to help before America got involved. Britain chose to enter the war, America was forced into it. Very selfless of you to come and save us and go on and on about it for years.

And what about the school of thought which cites America's post WWI actions as one of the primary factors which led to the second world war? America's refusal to join the League of Nations, which was their own President's vision, undermined the organization significantly. Had the LoN been more effective and done it's job, then the Second World War might never have happened.

True, an action caused by an isolationist Senate which was afraid if being dragged into future international wars that did not endanger US interests, a consensus of the US population at the time.

However, I believe Wilson's Fourteen Points also emphasized victory without reparations (thanks Mordack). However, the European members of the Triple Entente, following France and Britain, chose to ignore this point and insist on Germany paying the bill. Given the state of the German economy because of this and its dependence on foriegn loans (mainly US) to pay off the debt (which was even worse following the American Great Depression), it's really no wonder that the German people were so desperate that they would bring Hitler into power.

The US is not blameless for WWII. However, take a piece of the buck before you pass it on.

Editted for word choice.

[Mordack]

The word you're looking for is 'reparations', and it was the French who insisted, at the Treaty of Versailles, that Gemany be forced to pay them.

[Phoenix of Terra]

The word you're looking for is 'reparations', and it was the French who insisted, at the Treaty of Versailles, that Gemany be forced to pay them.

Thanks, knew it started with an r.

While the French were the one's who insisted on it, were they the only one's who ended up benefitting?

[Nostradamus]

Before the WWII US has sold mil of tons of strategic resources to Germany, even if it was a high chance they will be used for war. Like in other cases mentioned here some were lately used against US. Only this time what US took from Germany in terms of patents, scientific minds, etc made it worth while.

As for US doing something against the U-boats ... lol .... it was mainly breaking the Enigma code that made that possible.

[Mordack]

The word you're looking for is 'reparations', and it was the French who insisted, at the Treaty of Versailles, that Gemany be forced to pay them.

Thanks, knew it started with an r.

While the French were the one's who insisted on it, were they the only one's who ended up benefitting?

No, they weren't. Most of the victorious European powers benefitted. The French got the Ruhr, though, so they arguably benefitted the most. The point I was trying to make, however, is that Britain wasn't wholly responsible for creating the climate in Germany which paved the way for Hilter's ascent the power. David Lloyd George wanted limited money from Germany for pensions, but in no way advocated 'squeezing them dry' as Clemenceau did.

[Phoenix of Terra]

I guess our points our similar then, as I was trying to point out that while America's refusal to join the LoN played a factor in WWII's initiation, it was not the only factor and European powers (including Britain) had a hand in the war's start as well. Which was a greater cause is disputable.

[vinny d]

Get the bickering out of this and it would be a good thread.
I would say make love not war but not only do I not believe it the guy who said it got shot in the back of the head.

when will the worlds Pax Romana come?

[Bull-E]

i dont like the UN

threatening our sovergnty

[Mathlord]

I hate the UN. We should have had a multinational well-armed peacekeeping force on the ground in Darfur TWO years ago. And yet just because China is benefitting from Sudan's oil, nothing will ever be done except more African countries who withdraw the moment someone fires at them.

I remember Jimmy Carter once talking about his success in getting peacekeeping forces into Ivory Coast. The peacekeepers who left when the civil war started again and then came back only after the situation was resolved.

The UN serves as a wonderful place for discussion of the major problems of our world, but unfortunately they will never be great at action.