lifer suicide change - will also kill attack units (plus AC)

[Empy]

I wanna keep playing this game ... but you make it so hard to want to keep playing, Jason.

The point of this update is to stop people from being able to hide troops by training them as attackers, right? If not, it's stupid on all levels. If that is the case though, then WHY is this targeting Supers as well? It should only target regular attackers as that is where people hide troops...

It's continuous knee-jerk updates that 'cause big changes in the game that make me wanna ban myself from playing.

[Lithium]

I wanna keep playing this game ... but you make it so hard to want to keep playing, Jason.

The point of this update is to stop people from being able to hide troops by training them as attackers, right? If not, it's stupid on all levels. If that is the case though, then WHY is this targeting Supers as well? It should only target regular attackers as that is where people hide troops...

It's continuous knee-jerk updates that 'cause big changes in the game that make me wanna ban myself from playing.

+1

to prevent players to hide units then jsut remove the normal units att/def slots

training supers isnt hiding yr units plus it en-power the stronger even more due to the ability of replacement

[Lithium]

update: it IS live on beta now.
stargatewar.com (code 911)
same details as your normal login was a year ago
________________________

OK - a lot of great feedback.

Most agree: defense should be zero before attackers die.
Supers are tougher than regulars.

So ....

The lifer suicide will work EXACTLY like it does now.
Except:
IF you suicide against a zero defense, attackers will be targeted AS WELL AS anti-covert.

It will be 3:1 for regular attackers.
It will be 5:1 for supers.
It will stay 2:1 for AC

It will work by percent available (in raw numbers) as well.
So for example, if one had 10 regular attacks; 10 supers and 10 AC:
someone sent 20 lifers:
7 lifers would hit regular attackers. (2 die)
7 lifers would hit supers. (1 die)
6 lifers would hit AC. (3 die)

If someone had 100 regulars; 10 supers; 10 ac
someone sent 20 lifers
16 lifers would hit regular attackers (5 die)
2 lifers would hit supers (none die)
2 lifers would hit AC (1 die)

If defense was NOT zero: someone had 100 supers attacks; 100 normal attack; 100 AC
someone sent 20 lifers
20 lifer hit AC (10 die)

I will put this into beta this week. Make sure it works
Then give a couple days warning on main before making it live.

ps -attack mercs will count like regular attackers. I just did not add them in as they make the example more complicated. But it will create '4 piles' of units; attack; attack merc; super attack; AC -- each with a % of the lifers targeting them.

Cheers
jason.

im sry for the double post but i need to comment on this.

1. Defence: why should be 0-ed in order , with the recent increase of covert an account just have 1m units on covert 37-39 and a def of 100b to make it at's costly for normal massing so one can attempt to lifer his strike units.

i see supers are tougher then other units but whats the cost to make a single units that tough , its cheap obviously but makes the units worth x5.
100k units - cost 70-75b to buy and 9b to train, but to kill them it takes 500k units worth 350-380b, theres a big difference.

How this can stop hiding ??? can u explain??
this is just anoter way to increase the cost of game play.

BUG
2. Killing Order ; from what u said if 0 def lifering kills striker/supers/acers. well what happens if player A is acing player B and B lifers him to temp prevent being hunted? at this order he probably wont kill any AC units , as his lifers will target supers instead of AC units. im sorry but this order prevent killing AC units.

i see a game tactic that will follow after this sucky update.

accounts with a good cov lvl +36, will just train 2m supers and temp 5m normal strike also will buy 3-4m mercs, untrain their normal strike units. then they ll just sab the def and hunt the spies. in case the victim tries to retaliate he cant do nothing. if he tries to AC his lifers will go waste due to the killing order and high cost (10 units vs 3) without considering mercs.

well i d prefer u set a tax for playing this game instead of u creating this kind of updates to drain army to a un recoverable point.
have u trained playing a little to see what it takes to rebuild ??? and not all have $ to replace units.

[krsnik666]

update: it IS live on beta now.
stargatewar.com (code 911)
same details as your normal login was a year ago
________________________

OK - a lot of great feedback.

Most agree: defense should be zero before attackers die.
Supers are tougher than regulars.

So ....

The lifer suicide will work EXACTLY like it does now.
Except:
IF you suicide against a zero defense, attackers will be targeted AS WELL AS anti-covert.

It will be 3:1 for regular attackers.
It will be 5:1 for supers.
It will stay 2:1 for AC

It will work by percent available (in raw numbers) as well.
So for example, if one had 10 regular attacks; 10 supers and 10 AC:
someone sent 20 lifers:
7 lifers would hit regular attackers. (2 die)
7 lifers would hit supers. (1 die)
6 lifers would hit AC. (3 die)

If someone had 100 regulars; 10 supers; 10 ac
someone sent 20 lifers
16 lifers would hit regular attackers (5 die)
2 lifers would hit supers (none die)
2 lifers would hit AC (1 die)

If defense was NOT zero: someone had 100 supers attacks; 100 normal attack; 100 AC
someone sent 20 lifers
20 lifer hit AC (10 die)

I will put this into beta this week. Make sure it works
Then give a couple days warning on main before making it live.

ps -attack mercs will count like regular attackers. I just did not add them in as they make the example more complicated. But it will create '4 piles' of units; attack; attack merc; super attack; AC -- each with a % of the lifers targeting them.

Cheers
jason.

im sry for the double post but i need to comment on this.

1. Defence: why should be 0-ed in order , with the recent increase of covert an account just have 1m units on covert 37-39 and a def of 100b to make it at's costly for normal massing so one can attempt to lifer his strike units.

i see supers are tougher then other units but whats the cost to make a single units that tough , its cheap obviously but makes the units worth x5.
100k units - cost 70-75b to buy and 9b to train, but to kill them it takes 500k units worth 350-380b, theres a big difference.

How this can stop hiding ??? can u explain??
this is just anoter way to increase the cost of game play.

BUG
2. Killing Order ; from what u said if 0 def lifering kills striker/supers/acers. well what happens if player A is acing player B and B lifers him to temp prevent being hunted? at this order he probably wont kill any AC units , as his lifers will target supers instead of AC units. im sorry but this order prevent killing AC units.

i see a game tactic that will follow after this sucky update.

accounts with a good cov lvl +36, will just train 2m supers and temp 5m normal strike also will buy 3-4m mercs, untrain their normal strike units. then they ll just sab the def and hunt the spies. in case the victim tries to retaliate he cant do nothing. if he tries to AC his lifers will go waste due to the killing order and high cost (10 units vs 3) without considering mercs.

well i d prefer u set a tax for playing this game instead of u creating this kind of updates to drain army to a un recoverable point.
have u trained playing a little to see what it takes to rebuild ??? and not all have $ to replace units.

if your worried about getting your army drained then don't use the lifer system not many people will use it im sure once the first inital lifers start there will be big losses but after that it will probably just die down and go back to covert and use lifers every now and then anyway. units are made to be lost then recovered again so i don't see this being bad and if your still complaining then they can always give off more ATs at the market to complicates for the losses

easy to stop the hiding kills off attack normal and supers. you can hide units as supers then arm them later to do a devastating blow

i also dont see what you mean about the AC not bieng targeted if the defence is zero. all 3 are hit at the same time. if not zero then only AC is hit seems pretty straight forward (tested on beta)

[Forum]

<edit>: the other thing to 'ease the change in' that I would consider is a higher ratio on supers.
say 10:1 ...
I expect the argument is then "well I am wasting my lifers, not killing regulars or AC if they have a higher ratio of supers" which would be valid... supers do suck up the lifers, especially if 10:1.

Also --keep in mind lifers divide by 'unit type / (unit totals)' -- ie 10 attack mercs ; 10 attack regulars; 10 AC and 70 supers --- if you sent 100 lifers, 70 would go to supers; 10 to merc; 10 to attack ; 10 to AC... it is by % ...
<end edit>

an attack super with no weapon is 'hiding' ...
ie totally untouchable.

So I attack you like crazy. train up spies, sab you. then untrain spies, sell or don't care about my attack weapons.

All I have left is attack units (say supers) and say miners. no def. no spies. no ac.

how do you 'stop' me ? retaliate? prevent me from buying attack weapons and doing it again tomorrow?

I believe this provides an option. Is it 'free' ? No. Is it cheap? No. Does it allow SOME way to get back? yes...

I believe if we do not include supers, the 'snipe and hide in plain sight' will not be affected.
Now - one could train miner, then untrain/train attack regular, then arm, then buy weapon, then snipe, then untrain, train miner, sell weapons.... but at least that is a) more costly in attacking units b) more costly in train/untrain than no train/untrain at all and c) more work/time in order ot 'get away with it'.

We can test longer on beta if people are worried...

Keep in mind, too, people REALLY have to dislike you to 'waste' 5x the raw number of units getting your supers This will not be used lightly.

[MEZZANINE]

<edit>: the other thing to 'ease the change in' that I would consider is a higher ratio on supers.
say 10:1 ...
I expect the argument is then "well I am wasting my lifers, not killing regulars or AC if they have a higher ratio of supers" which would be valid... supers do suck up the lifers, especially if 10:1.

Also --keep in mind lifers divide by 'unit type / (unit totals)' -- ie 10 attack mercs ; 10 attack regulars; 10 AC and 70 supers --- if you sent 100 lifers, 70 would go to supers; 10 to merc; 10 to attack ; 10 to AC... it is by % ...
<end edit>

an attack super with no weapon is 'hiding' ...
ie totally untouchable.

So I attack you like crazy. train up spies, sab you. then untrain spies, sell or don't care about my attack weapons.

All I have left is attack units (say supers) and say miners. no def. no spies. no ac.

how do you 'stop' me ? retaliate? prevent me from buying attack weapons and doing it again tomorrow?

I believe this provides an option. Is it 'free' ? No. Is it cheap? No. Does it allow SOME way to get back? yes...

I believe if we do not include supers, the 'snipe and hide in plain sight' will not be affected.
Now - one could train miner, then untrain/train attack regular, then arm, then buy weapon, then snipe, then untrain, train miner, sell weapons.... but at least that is a) more costly in attacking units b) more costly in train/untrain than no train/untrain at all and c) more work/time in order ot 'get away with it'.

We can test longer on beta if people are worried...

Keep in mind, too, people REALLY have to dislike you to 'waste' 5x the raw number of units getting your supers This will not be used lightly.

Unarmed lifer -v- Unarmed raiders fair enough, miners wont be as skilled as soldiers but are still tough and in greater numbers will win in hand to hand combat.

But

Unarmed miners should NOT be able to kill trained armed troops



I still think allowing Strike to fight in def after the def has fallen is better option, that way strike can be massed, unarmed men in strike will die easily, armed men will fight.

Also if lifering is going to be used, rather than have people training/untraining/retraining miners to create lifers there should be a training option to simply train lifers mid-battle.

[HgE]

Keep in mind, too, people REALLY have to dislike you to 'waste' 5x the raw number of units getting your supers This will not be used lightly.

I wanted to see this answer for a long, long time. SO.. here it is:
This will BE used lightly... ))))) VERY LIGHTLY. That lightly that accounts ready to sell UU will be like Flyes. And you don't believe me, Don't... just watch.

But, in the end this is what you want $$$, and I won't be paying a Cent for this game, or any games.

But again, what you are after, people that play with low $ spending will get bored to get down by big $$ spenders so .. another step to bury your game. Good Luck.. I'm glad I've stopped playing.

[R8]

I wanna keep playing this game ... but you make it so hard to want to keep playing, Jason.

The point of this update is to stop people from being able to hide troops by training them as attackers, right? If not, it's stupid on all levels. If that is the case though, then WHY is this targeting Supers as well? It should only target regular attackers as that is where people hide troops...

It's continuous knee-jerk updates that 'cause big changes in the game that make me wanna ban myself from playing.

i see this as another way to waste your uu, then need a big ol $$ spendage to get them back. targeting supers now as well as attackers, seriously

[Forum]

i cannot win.
i get the 'sniper untouchable ruins game'
i get the 'if you can harm a sniper (ie this update), you must be after $$ and are ruining game'

the update plays into the miner being optional due to higher bank space minimum based on Cov level.
That update was mostly to be fair to non-$$ people who could not get higher covert without $$ otherwise (it was said...).

So by trying to make it fair for all, in particular non$ - i am apparantly only after $...

ah well I try... i really do...
I just hope people don't wonder why I do not like making updates

[~Drunken Master~]

i cannot win.
i get the 'sniper untouchable ruins game'
i get the 'if you can harm a sniper (ie this update), you must be after $$ and are ruining game'

the update plays into the miner being optional due to higher bank space minimum based on Cov level.
That update was mostly to be fair to non-$$ people who could not get higher covert without $$ otherwise (it was said...).

So by trying to make it fair for all, in particular non$ - i am apparantly only after $...

ah well I try... i really do...
I just hope people don't wonder why I do not like making updates

You are great, the problem is not you, the problem is that there are to much cry babies...

[BMMJ13]

i cannot win.
i get the 'sniper untouchable ruins game'
i get the 'if you can harm a sniper (ie this update), you must be after $$ and are ruining game'

the update plays into the miner being optional due to higher bank space minimum based on Cov level.
That update was mostly to be fair to non-$$ people who could not get higher covert without $$ otherwise (it was said...).

So by trying to make it fair for all, in particular non$ - i am apparantly only after $...

ah well I try... i really do...
I just hope people don't wonder why I do not like making updates

Problem of the game.

If someone has infinite resources, how do you harm them?
If someone has nothing trained that is touchable, how do you harm them?

The way the game is, forces these different play styles, often in opposition. Each update that either helps snipers or money people (would rather consider them infinite resourcers) just serves to further divide those who still play, forcing them into one or the other.

By going after problems that only a few complain about, be it for snipers or for money spenders, will likely cause more to complain after it is made. Those who are complaining are unhappy, however there are many people happy with how stuff works already.

Instead of putting in updates that forces changes in playstyles and messes with the games current balance, maybe better updates would be ones that help everyone equally, such as a broker system that allows trading planets (or the recent untrain supers comes to mind, seeing as it was equal for everyone and didn't change anything drastically).

[~Drunken Master~]

i cannot win.
i get the 'sniper untouchable ruins game'
i get the 'if you can harm a sniper (ie this update), you must be after $$ and are ruining game'

the update plays into the miner being optional due to higher bank space minimum based on Cov level.
That update was mostly to be fair to non-$$ people who could not get higher covert without $$ otherwise (it was said...).

So by trying to make it fair for all, in particular non$ - i am apparantly only after $...

ah well I try... i really do...
I just hope people don't wonder why I do not like making updates

Problem of the game.

If someone has infinite resources, how do you harm them?
If someone has nothing trained that is touchable, how do you harm them?

The way the game is, forces these different play styles, often in opposition. Each update that either helps snipers or money people (would rather consider them infinite resourcers) just serves to further divide those who still play, forcing them into one or the other.

By going after problems that only a few complain about, be it for snipers or for money spenders, will likely cause more to complain after it is made. Those who are complaining are unhappy, however there are many people happy with how stuff works already.

Instead of putting in updates that forces changes in playstyles and messes with the games current balance, maybe better updates would be ones that help everyone equally, such as a broker system that allows trading planets (or the recent untrain supers comes to mind, seeing as it was equal for everyone and didn't change anything drastically).

Not only do you have a sweet calculator in which i still love to this moment but i do love your ideas as well...

[Empy]

i cannot win.
i get the 'sniper untouchable ruins game'
i get the 'if you can harm a sniper (ie this update), you must be after $$ and are ruining game'

the update plays into the miner being optional due to higher bank space minimum based on Cov level.
That update was mostly to be fair to non-$$ people who could not get higher covert without $$ otherwise (it was said...).

So by trying to make it fair for all, in particular non$ - i am apparantly only after $...

ah well I try... i really do...
I just hope people don't wonder why I do not like making updates

Problem of the game.

If someone has infinite resources, how do you harm them?
If someone has nothing trained that is touchable, how do you harm them?

The way the game is, forces these different play styles, often in opposition. Each update that either helps snipers or money people (would rather consider them infinite resourcers) just serves to further divide those who still play, forcing them into one or the other.

By going after problems that only a few complain about, be it for snipers or for money spenders, will likely cause more to complain after it is made. Those who are complaining are unhappy, however there are many people happy with how stuff works already.

Instead of putting in updates that forces changes in playstyles and messes with the games current balance, maybe better updates would be ones that help everyone equally, such as a broker system that allows trading planets (or the recent untrain supers comes to mind, seeing as it was equal for everyone and didn't change anything drastically).

WORD.

[Lithium]

i cannot win.
i get the 'sniper untouchable ruins game'
i get the 'if you can harm a sniper (ie this update), you must be after $$ and are ruining game'

the update plays into the miner being optional due to higher bank space minimum based on Cov level.
That update was mostly to be fair to non-$$ people who could not get higher covert without $$ otherwise (it was said...).

So by trying to make it fair for all, in particular non$ - i am apparantly only after $...

ah well I try... i really do...
I just hope people don't wonder why I do not like making updates

u can do it if u dont aim to increase the cost at a point that it cant be affordable.

how can u stop the "untouchable sniper" ?? by killing its supers at x10 cost? that wont really work. its clearly it ll work backward.

u want to stop snipers then lower cost 1:2 , its just units , supers just take few few bil naq more to train. both are simple units that one have to buy or raid.

1:2 lifer vs ac, striker, super. here u ll stop snipers , if u rise the cost then u aiming to smth else.

[HgE]

i cannot win.
i get the 'sniper untouchable ruins game'
i get the 'if you can harm a sniper (ie this update), you must be after $$ and are ruining game'

the update plays into the miner being optional due to higher bank space minimum based on Cov level.
That update was mostly to be fair to non-$$ people who could not get higher covert without $$ otherwise (it was said...).

So by trying to make it fair for all, in particular non$ - i am apparantly only after $...

ah well I try... i really do...
I just hope people don't wonder why I do not like making updates

BUT, If you put all the UPDATES you work for it you'll get the Picture. My REMARKS was not for this UPDATE only.. I've said, that I'm waiting for a long time to say something.

1. AT to buy them now on Market cost: 1.3 T... if it goes to >1.5T it won't be profitable at all.
2. UU now..

and you say you don't want $$$$$$$$ Are you serious? are we kids?

Anyway, picture this:
what will happen if you farm 20T for 3T Profit? this Game will be dead SOONer than you think.

If you want someone to polish your shoes, probably there are plenty.. But at least, I leave the MAIN game and they spent $$$ to polish their ego and be slapped by their wallet.. Now when BIG accounts are on selling spring.