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Semper put the nail on the Coffin there.


But in all reality this has been useful to see who has issues and what they suggested (Examples: Roket, Semper, Myself, and a couple of others). It also has been useful to see which mods agree with what the others are saying and also i see the absence of Three people i heard of who have massive power but yet do not arrive here; Jason,Adminsue, Deni. I wonder to myself why?

Simple answer because the power no longer resides with them but their little people like the Mods and such and some of them do not want change (Its clear why they do not wish it) and others who are very productive and i thank them for being so (Shout out to Noobert, SuperSayian, Mordack even).

I still believe (this is my suggestion part) we should have a poll as to how much to change and what to change from the users/ observers perspectives and then we hear the mods and so forth; to create a much more open and clean cut environment on which everyone or the majority hope fully agree upon.

I see the point the Mods made about the GM but like you said it is a person recommended by others who have experience; not really working is it?
Nope, maybe that should be changed for the betterment of this community( which i think most of us want since we are talking here about it).

To Noobert's post about people who should step up; i gladly would if i was welcome to do so; which i feel not so much from of the Mods/GMs and such to do so , which is why i do not do so. Which could or could not be shared by some others( only speculation).

Therefore, no one specific is to blame but really in small or large part Everyone is to blame for this state and everyone should rise to the occasion to step up before this becomes a really dead community/game(which of course would be kinda tragic in a sense).

If you are as negotiating, and as forward as this - I do not see any reason why you wouldn't be highly considered as a Moderator candidate. Past actions are past for a reason, after all.

ernest wrote:Therefore, no one specific is to blame but really in small or large part Everyone is to blame for this state and everyone should rise to the occasion to step up before this becomes a really dead community/game(which of course would be kinda tragic in a sense).

this sounds familiar... oh wait...

first post wrote:The blame lies with all of us.... ...So, what is it worth to you? Are you willing to put aside the animosity to get new people in here? People who could contribute great opinions, and great ideas.

Psi Kiya Trist wrote:

ernest wrote:Therefore, no one specific is to blame but really in small or large part Everyone is to blame for this state and everyone should rise to the occasion to step up before this becomes a really dead community/game(which of course would be kinda tragic in a sense).

this sounds familiar... oh wait...

first post wrote:The blame lies with all of us.... ...So, what is it worth to you? Are you willing to put aside the animosity to get new people in here? People who could contribute great opinions, and great ideas.

We have come full circle. Do we go another one go-around?

Juliette wrote:

Psi Kiya Trist wrote:

ernest wrote:Therefore, no one specific is to blame but really in small or large part Everyone is to blame for this state and everyone should rise to the occasion to step up before this becomes a really dead community/game(which of course would be kinda tragic in a sense).

this sounds familiar... oh wait...

first post wrote:The blame lies with all of us.... ...So, what is it worth to you? Are you willing to put aside the animosity to get new people in here? People who could contribute great opinions, and great ideas.

We have come full circle. Do we go another one go-around?

Sure... Can I switch rolls again, it was more fun picking fights with the mod's and admin's

Semper wrote:@ Empy.. because no offence but the GM's are not much better than the admins. They're easily just as corrupt and the rest of it. How many of you make absolute your practise of playing favourite with Jack for example? What about the debacle with my past problems. So many of you (and this goes beyond GM's) came to me and told me you supported me yet not a one of you stood up... you're just cowards bent on the will of your admins and I won't hold back and say that if my system was put in place and I won the election you'd probably all be gone in a heart beat.

There were topics where Deni blatantly bullied MLH in the mod centre and again you all just played stupid. It's only when you're positions or your actual friends are in the firing line that you stand up and speak.. you're not in it to do right you're all as black as the bottom as my shoe but it's got so bad that the insuring dust cloud has long since blocked the truth from being used.

It's unfair though to put the problems of this community squarely in the lap of the forum team as they're a problem (in fact they've always been a problem.. but that's what you get from it being an old boys club as the slang terminology would go) but the forum team isn't THE problem and if anything were done now.. it's too little too late. SGW sealed it's fate in 2006 with the bad updates and then the final nail went in with the last set so I think it's pointless driving a pike into the forum teams stomach now.

Make absolute our practice of playing favorite with Jack? I'll assume you don't know my opinion of him. I can only respond to this about me personally, I don't think I came to you and offered my support. I can say this because I remember not liking you, so I doubt I would've done that.

I never saw Deni bully MLH, but she wasn't ever active since the time I became a Moderator. So I can't speak to that either...

This is kind of pointless really, because you clearly don't like the Global Mod team and I'm sure you keep spitting out endless reasons as to why. So we can just leave it at you thinking we do a very bad job.

Again we all are to blame, as stated in the beginning of this topic. We all can not take this personally and make a change to alleviate the opportunity to have this argument again.

E.M.P. wrote:Make absolute our practice of playing favorite with Jack? I'll assume you don't know my opinion of him. I can only respond to this about me personally, I don't think I came to you and offered my support. I can say this because I remember not liking you, so I doubt I would've done that.

I never saw Deni bully MLH, but she wasn't ever active since the time I became a Moderator. So I can't speak to that either...

This is kind of pointless really, because you clearly don't like the Global Mod team and I'm sure you keep spitting out endless reasons as to why. So we can just leave it at you thinking we do a very bad job.

Am I to ignore Jack's crimes are far worse than my own... and yet he has GM powers, can see the mod sections and has my colour? (something ima I actually earnt with positive merits) I don't see any major objections from you Empy. No action in this case is as bad as support for it.

Support for me well.. I remember discussing the situation with you and you saying that despite the fact you disliked me you thought the fact that the admin team dismissed me without warning and without provercation that numerous mods had gotten away with (including Deni herself) was indeed unfair, or.. more accurately... unproffessional. This is a legit game afterall... we should be able to expect a professional nature from the admins?

As for Deni vs MLH.. that's fair enough.. if you were absent then you cannot attest or hide.

As MLH said.. don't take it personally... I hate everyone. The fact is you guys do perform a bad job the fact this thread and debate is here (yet again!) is a testament to that fact.

Semper wrote:Am I to ignore Jack's crimes are far worse than my own... and yet he has GM powers, can see the mod sections and has my colour? (something ima I actually earnt with positive merits) I don't see any major objections from you Empy. No action in this case is as bad as support for it.

What was discussed about Jack isn't something I want to talk about, as it's "Mod Business." So the cookies crumbles. For the record though, he was a Global Moderator, then fired. Then more recently he was hired back as a Section Mod in Misc. He is not a Global Moderator.

Semper wrote:Support for me well.. I remember discussing the situation with you and you saying that despite the fact you disliked me you thought the fact that the admin team dismissed me without warning and without provercation that numerous mods had gotten away with (including Deni herself) was indeed unfair, or.. more accurately... unproffessional. This is a legit game afterall... we should be able to expect a professional nature from the admins?

Maybe I did, honestly can't remember. If I did say I thought the way they fired you was wrong, I might've meant that, but it didn't mean I didn't like you being a Mod. Anyways.. idk

I hate to make this reply, being it's just a personal discussion between us, but meh. I don't know what this topic is about anymore, anyone can just post anything about Mods or any problems really.

Why bother with these topics? Nothing ever comes out of it, no decisions made, nothing gets done.

This reminds me of the online game Hero Online. Yes the game was buggy and terrible and the community would sooner scam you than give you any worthwhile info but in the end, everyone still played the game accepting things are the way they are.

My point: nothing's gonna change, its been the way it is for so long. Accept it and continue. Either that or set up a new forum and see if you can do a better job of running it.

Semper wrote:Am I to ignore Jack's crimes are far worse than my own... and yet he has GM powers, can see the mod sections and has my colour? (something ima I actually earnt with positive merits) I don't see any major objections from you Empy. No action in this case is as bad as support for it.

GM powers? He has none. Don't know where you got that looney idea, old chap?

Semper wrote:Support for me well.. I remember discussing the situation with you and you saying that despite the fact you disliked me you thought the fact that the admin team dismissed me without warning and without provercation that numerous mods had gotten away with (including Deni herself) was indeed unfair, or.. more accurately... unproffessional. This is a legit game afterall... we should be able to expect a professional nature from the admins?

Working in a team. Something a GM should be rather good at, actually. Not only actually working in a team, but also leading it, properly. Not sit on an iron throne like a dictator from the old days, and dole out punishment and wrath to those who you deem to be .. incompetent. Sure, incompetency, bad thing, kill it quickly. Absolutely glorious style of management. In a company. With employees. But when working with a team of volunteers, such a strategy is bound to have averse effects. The GM-ship is not the princedom you showed you deemed it to be in every action you took; sweet Niccolo's guidelines should be put back on their shelf when leading volunteers. We are not playing politics, are we? If we are, then yes.. by all means, acquire power, acquire friendships or fear.. you let your role within the team be overshadowed by the character-image of the dark lord you would like to be. And there, we have the reason for your dismissal. No provocation? Indeed. No warning? Plenty, if you had kept an eye on the dissent brewing under your rule. *grin*

Semper wrote:As for Deni vs MLH.. that's fair enough.. if you were absent then you cannot attest or hide.

If you have a bad relation as regular members, you will not magically have a good relation when you are given responsibilities. When there is a difference in authority, the professional stay away from each other so as not to disrupt the business as usual. When you attempt to cross the other by slanderous activities, you will face the consequences. *chuckles* But such petty things are best left to private conversations.. to draw any general statement from it would be foolish and unproductive.

Semper wrote:As MLH said.. don't take it personally... I hate everyone. The fact is you guys do perform a bad job the fact this thread and debate is here (yet again!) is a testament to that fact.

Agreed. Radicalised elements should have long since been removed.



So it is another round? If you would excuse me, I am inclined to agree with Atomos, and all others who have said this thread has come full circle, and need not continue into repetitiveness..

My 10 cents (and some more)....

I've seen this community derail over the past years. This has got multiple causes, and although the most are equally to blame, not all can take and are expected to take as much responsibility as others.

The regular users itself: I've seen the flaming, hating, insulting etc increase over the years. Of course there have been ups and downs in that, but the trend is visible. While the peak seems to be over a bit, it's still pretty bad. Even now it happens that you can get massed just because you don't agree with someone, and random massing still happens a lot. Thanks to things like that, people get here (if they're not experienced) to complain about it, and then verbally get abused in the most cases.

I could name countless examples where it has gone wrong the past months already in threads, but which just seem to have been unmoddable because of the high volume of verbal abuse on the OP without having to close the whole thread while there was an fair point to discuss/argue about.

The mod and admin team... long story. I was once a mod myself, untill I dared to disagree with the admins about how some things were handled, voiced my concerns about publically since in the mod/admin section I didn't get serious replies, and when I tried to defend myself against accusations from Deni by needing to use something that was in the guidelines for admins in the mod&admin section, I got sacked for publishing from something in a hidden section. LOL.
I know how it feels being a mod, the difficult it can be to punish an own friend or alliance mate... I also got called bias a few times, but I did my job as best as I could.

I've seen the actions of a lot of mods, GMs and admins.... while some just make mistakes, some others knowingly abuse powers. Sadly enough, last time I tried to put that forwards to the administration, I got shot down, locked up and told that I were falsely accusing the administration. *sigh*

Funny stuff is, Tekki seems to be fired on about the same reason I got fired: being vocal about things that aren't right in the administration. And MLH seems to be too, although in the end she left on her own accord (I give, I skimmed the thread. OK?).

Ever since the current admins took control, I notice the unspoken requirement that you must agree silently with everything the admins and GMs do and say. Those who don't got slapped down. Noticable by for example by Noobert, Empy and others needing to defend every action and words of the admins and GMs even if they were clearly in the wrong.
There are still some good mods out there - but in my personal opinion, the corruption is spreading when it comes to that. And unless the current administration gets replaced and feedback is given by minimally at least the bigger alliances to Jason (not just OE, DDE and TL as it currently seems to be) for whom to appoint for new admins who aren't influenced by alliance and personal relations (personally, I've got a few ideas about people being suitable in each alliance and empire, but I don't know how many of them would accept), I don't see the corruption and all the other things that are so wrong about the current administration being changed.

Hell, even the position of the Ombudsman seems to have become political. If that's not a sign of the way this forum has gone down, I don't know it anymore...
-Ben

Looked up the definition to "good old boys" man the definition hits the nail on the coffin

Good ol' boy network, or "Good old boys", describes a system of social networking/cronyism perceived to exist among communities and social strata. These networks are perceived to be located throughout the world. It is sometimes taken to refer to informal legal, judicial, social, religious, business, and political associations among members, ("good ol' boys").

Some negative effects of the good ol' boy network are its exclusion of others, leading to leaders of a community possibly limiting business transactions to other elites,[citation needed] or to friends or acquaintances from within the network, to give friends better deals, and generally to reinforce traditional power structures over any other elements in the society.

For example, economic geographer, Richard Florida, has several publications (2004, 2008) pointing out the concept of 'good old boys network', in contrast to more diverse and larger places, where creative work is allowed.[citation needed]

While the Good ol' boy system has a greater potential to place those who are incompetent,[citation needed], less experienced, or less qualified, it can also be a quicker way of getting something done.[citation needed]

It is sometimes thought of as being a system which is used by dominant group to keep others out[citation needed], it is also used by other minorities in any situation where they hold majority sway[citation needed], or within any homogeneous community to maintain the status quo.[citation needed] Diversity notwithstanding, this type of social construct exists around the world, with various methods of association.[citation needed] Mob organizations could be seen as the extreme application of just this social construct.[citation needed]

BenjaminMS wrote:Funny stuff is, Tekki seems to be fired on about the same reason I got fired: being vocal about things that aren't right in the administration. And MLH seems to be too, although in the end she left on her own accord (I give, I skimmed the thread. OK?).

That's wrong on all fronts. Not talking about Tekki, but MLH was removed from Modship because she was inactive. Not logging in, not moderating anything. Not for anything else.

BenjaminMS wrote:Ever since the current admins took control, I notice the unspoken requirement that you must agree silently with everything the admins and GMs do and say. Those who don't got slapped down. Noticable by for example by Noobert, Empy and others needing to defend every action and words of the admins and GMs even if they were clearly in the wrong.

If that's really what you think Noobert and Myself were doing then I must assume you didn't read the topic at all. In almost every post I've made, I've PLEADED with those who have a problem with the Moderators and Administrators to make a topic in Forum & Mod Feedback so that we can know, and improve.

If someone brought up an idea here, I may have disagreed or agreed with the idea. I remember agreeing with one, maybe two, and disagreeing with others. I certainly didn't mindlessly defend the Mods/Admins.

I dont like the politics, the posing about and aggression on the forum, the bending of the rules that occurs (in masking etc.). The whole 'be carefull what you say or..' thing.
But to be honest, I don't mind it all that much as I am more of a passive user in this community.
Argueably I shouldn't even be bothering with a reply but I just kinda feel like posting something today