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And Prayers Do Work. But I Think Only Genuine Prayers Count. Like Being 11 And Asking God To Prevent Your Mother From Wrecking The Truck With You And Your Little Brother In It Even Though She Was Too Drunk To Even Stand On Her Own. She Swerved Back And Forth, But We Didn't See A Single Soul The Whole Ride Home.

Good topic guys i like it

Come_Forth wrote:The basic problems that I see is why would god want worship anyway? Another problem that I also see is that when the consequence for disbelief is hell the choice is not really that free.

A.) God Wants Friendship. When God created man in his image, he did that for a reason. Before the fall, the relationship between God and man was perfectly perfect. THAT PERFECT!! J I don’t think Adam “Worshipped” God. The Lord gave us free will because it was man’s choice that made the bond so strong. We Lost That connection to him in the fall. We worship Him because he deserves it. He is ultimately good. He does not demand that we worship him. We have the choice not to, which brings me to part two.
B.) ‘Hell’ is not necessarily the fire and brimstone that Hollywood portrays it to be. As Weapon Zero said, ‘Hell’ is “Away From God”. That May seem vague but to me it means that you no longer know his love, for you have forsaken Him. I won’t lie, I rarely act like I’ve been taught. I’m definitely no saint, but I Know that I have felt that love inside me. I just entered college, and I hadn’t been to church in months, but a few weeks ago I went to a new church with some friends, and the warm feeling of love inside me brought me to tears. There is nothing greater than knowing God’s Love, and I hope I live an acceptable life in his eyes so that I may be privilege to that love for eternity. But you have the choice to not accept that love. I don’t think one would necessarily burn (but some could), I think it would be more like feeling alone and deserted. Utterly Miserable feelings. Like Having your mother and father die, a trillion times everyday. That bad. Your grandma too. It’s not that you are being punished. Can you call it a punishment when you ignore your parents warnings and go get yourself hurt?


I personally disagree with Weapon Zero in that I do not believe that we are predestined to anything. Especially Hell. The principle of free choice that God gave us is contradictory to any idea that our fate is already determined. Maybe God has a plan for us, but so do my parents. They want me to be a computer engineer. Well, I do What I want to and that applies to God as well. If I’m worshipping him it’s because I choose to. Not out of fear of consequence but because I love him.



I’m no expert. I Have no seminary training nor do I plan too any time soon, but I have studied my religion and I do have a mind of my own. I don’t blindly accept what my pastor tells me, Anything I post here is merely my own interpretation of my declared faith.

Thank You for reading and if you disagree or believe any reasoning I use in the future is faulty, please feel free to bring it up and discuss it. Everyone is entitled to their own interpretation of the Holy One’s teachings, which is basically the definition of ecumenicism. Once I catch up to the topic and have responded to what really jumps out at me, then I’ll probably start asking questions myself. But right now I’m going to bed.

i dont have time to read all that guys cut it down a bit

God Wanted Friends. We **Filtered** Up.

Hell Is Just Not Having God's Love. He's not Punishing Us, We Bring It On Ourselves, So We Can't Blame Him.

HairyMehoff wrote:God Wanted Friends. We *modded* Up.

Hell Is Just Not Having God's Love. He's not Punishing Us, We Bring It On Ourselves, So We Can't Blame Him.

yeah basically.

EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON

Sephiroth wrote:i dont have time to read all that guys cut it down a bit

I totally get your point but you will find if you read through some of these forums you will find some of my posts to be the longest by far, the issue is trying to explain something complex in a small amount of words. We must be carefull to cover the bases correctly because people will try their best to pick apart each of our words and use them against us. Also I am glad you like the topic.

To everyone, sorry I havent been in much, but my wife and I are visiting my Mom out of state. I have enjoyed the reading though and have thought the arguments have been well thought and intellegent.

my 2 cents regarding heaven and hell (and a dollar abouth earth):

i heard (or read... anyways, doesn't matter) a story about how hell and heaven look like.

1. hell:
in the middle there's that huge bowly/potty thing with the best soup ever in it (youse can't even imagine how good that soup is).
and there's ppl sitting all arround trying to eat it. but they can't, cos they have those 6 ft long spoons glued to their hands, so all they can do is dip them in the soup. they can't put them in the mouth cos it's too long.
so they're skinny, hungry and not very satisfied with all this.

2. heaven:
in the middle there's that huge bowly/potty thing with the best soup ever in it (aye! exactly the same thingy!).
and there's ppl sitting all arround trying to eat it. and they too have them 6 ft long spoons glued to their hands. but in heaven they're stuffed, healthy looking and happy.
why?
cos they're not trying to eat the soup themselves but they're feeding the person sitting across fron them. simple, huh.


so now let's go back to earth:

in the middle there's that huge bowly/potty thing with the best soup ever in it and there's ppl sitting all arround trying to eat it. and again they have them 6 ft long spoons glued to their hands.

first they feed the guys opposite them. suddenly one of them thinks "hang on a sec! they're gonna feed me anyways, so why should i feed them? i can sit here doing nothing and i'll still get fed". so he does.

at this point ppl invented trade: i feed you and ya feed me.

at this point the lazy fella throws his spoon away and says: "how can i do this? i can't feed ya cos i've got no spoon." and he starts moaning that he's hungry and nobdy want feed him and he's a victim of modern society etc.

at this point ppl invented charities: charity asks others to feed the spoonless guy if they want.

the problem is that somewhere along the way ppl also invented "socially responsible" government that introduced socialism: everybdy gives yer soup to us (well, ya can keep some for yerselves) and we'll give it to the spoonless guy (and eat some of thet as well, cos we have no time to eat ourselves cos we have "socially responsible" work to do).

at this point more ppl thinks: "hang on! these guys are giving free soup! so why should we bother working and feeding the others?"

nicely put, friggin hobos

I actually support charity. Some people are born disadvantaged. God put us together for a reason. To help those who need help.

It's true that God helps those who help themselves, but charity is one of the 7 graces and is promoted by God. Like men with leprosy, the undesireables of society deserves our help.

Lazy people who wants everything handed to them deserves what they get. But those who try, but can't succeed without help, should be helped by us, as good neighbors.

And even when everyone else falters, and claim that we shouldn't bother, good Christians should be the last one standing. To help people, no matter what. God makes the decisions, we can only do our best to be good to Him and each other.

You should still feed the spoonless despite why they don't have a spoon. Maybe they are trying their hardest to get a spoon and someday they'll come back and feed you too. Maybe they're lazy and they really did just throw their spoon away and said feed me.

Still you should continue to feed them within reasoning. Someday they may realize that they are being self centered and that they should join the cause of feeding others. Or maybe they won't but at least you can say you tried to help make someones life better.

all sounds good guys keep it up

HairyMehoff wrote:

Come_Forth wrote:The basic problems that I see is why would god want worship anyway? Another problem that I also see is that when the consequence for disbelief is hell the choice is not really that free.

A.) God Wants Friendship. When God created man in his image, he did that for a reason. Before the fall, the relationship between God and man was perfectly perfect. THAT PERFECT!! J I don’t think Adam “Worshipped” God. The Lord gave us free will because it was man’s choice that made the bond so strong. We Lost That connection to him in the fall. We worship Him because he deserves it. He is ultimately good. He does not demand that we worship him. We have the choice not to, which brings me to part two.
B.) ‘Hell’ is not necessarily the fire and brimstone that Hollywood portrays it to be. As Weapon Zero said, ‘Hell’ is “Away From God”. That May seem vague but to me it means that you no longer know his love, for you have forsaken Him. I won’t lie, I rarely act like I’ve been taught. I’m definitely no saint, but I Know that I have felt that love inside me. I just entered college, and I hadn’t been to church in months, but a few weeks ago I went to a new church with some friends, and the warm feeling of love inside me brought me to tears. There is nothing greater than knowing God’s Love, and I hope I live an acceptable life in his eyes so that I may be privilege to that love for eternity. But you have the choice to not accept that love. I don’t think one would necessarily burn (but some could), I think it would be more like feeling alone and deserted. Utterly Miserable feelings. Like Having your mother and father die, a trillion times everyday. That bad. Your grandma too. It’s not that you are being punished. Can you call it a punishment when you ignore your parents warnings and go get yourself hurt?


I personally disagree with Weapon Zero in that I do not believe that we are predestined to anything. Especially Hell. The principle of free choice that God gave us is contradictory to any idea that our fate is already determined. Maybe God has a plan for us, but so do my parents. They want me to be a computer engineer. Well, I do What I want to and that applies to God as well. If I’m worshipping him it’s because I choose to. Not out of fear of consequence but because I love him.



I’m no expert. I Have no seminary training nor do I plan too any time soon, but I have studied my religion and I do have a mind of my own. I don’t blindly accept what my pastor tells me, Anything I post here is merely my own interpretation of my declared faith.

Thank You for reading and if you disagree or believe any reasoning I use in the future is faulty, please feel free to bring it up and discuss it. Everyone is entitled to their own interpretation of the Holy One’s teachings, which is basically the definition of ecumenicism. Once I catch up to the topic and have responded to what really jumps out at me, then I’ll probably start asking questions myself. But right now I’m going to bed.

How old is that quote lol? Thanks for joining the discussion, I just got back from Christmas. My question for you think about is whether or not it is possible not to sin having only finite knowledge.

Of course not. The only person who has infinite knowledge is God.

He doesn't expect us to be wise or knowledgeable, but to try our best in what we can do