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Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:40 pm
by TORN4DO
i dont even get any of this **Filtered** i hope you didnt make it worse as it allready is, alltho reading these comments you probably did
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:56 pm
by chargin
Mojo Rising i'm sure the admin knows you are passing ur planets around and it isn't effecting your growth much. You are still the most powerful player in ascension, almost everyone knows that
Forum pls read this...
This update is so wrong, it seems to be for the very weak players and the very strong players and makes the strong players untouchable.
1. You can't just increase the APP>Life force every half a year or something, players in ascension grow too fast, it's just guess work.
100 times would have been more reasonable (would seem extreme but the rate is out by that much).
top incomes in ascention are around 500bil, top incomes in main are around 20bil.
at APP 330>1, the main player could send up 6tril (so no rounding errors) worth of stuff by ascending, assuming its at the best rates (infinite UP, with required units etc) the number of ascensions becomes irrelevant (in determining costs) which work out UP is worth exactly 2.25 times more than the rate of naq, which would be converted into 2.25*6tril/6000000=2,250,000 APP, this can be converted into 742,500,000 Life force (by multiplying by 330). to get 6 tril naq it would have taken the main player 6tril/20bil=300 turns.
742,500,000/300=2,475,000 Life force per turn
For an ascension player with 500bil a turn income, they could convert this into 500bil/10000000*1000=50mil LF per turn.
so that means a strong ascended account is worth 50mil/2.475mil=20.2 top main accounts income if you want LF in ascention, if you want dmu in ascension you would get 2,475,000/1000*1000000=2,475,000,000 which is the same as 500bil/2.475bil=202 main accounts.
Therefore i suggest to make main and ascension more in line the APP to life force ratio instead of being 330:1 is 3300 to 1. that would make ascension accounts a more reasonable 2.02 times as good as a top main account for LF and 20.2 main accounts if they want DMU!!
For an even fairer ratio the top 1% of mains incomes, that have logged in within the last 2 weeks vs the top 1% of ascension incomes to determine the APP to LF ratio, ideally 1 main account should be able to generate as much life force per turn as 1 ascended account on average but of course the top players in ascension won't like that!
2. The server NEEDS a super weapon (all the people that said yay are the people dominating the game), to one day just maybe, maybe have enough money to hit one of the top players with it. It is great for activity of smaller players because they can make some decent amounts of DMU from farming, sure it's nothing like the larger players make but hey its not bad! make it not kill any planets if you want, just destroy weapons, that'd be enough to make the top players hittable until they log in! don't worry its not like they would be raided because they'd still have covert/assassins!
3. There needs to be moving caps!! limits like 100m+ planets is no raiding, 1/2 DMU>LF conversion rate after 200m planets, quarter after 800mil planets and 2/3 up, 1/8 after 3.2bil and 1/2 UP! as a larger percentage of players are being hit by these limits, have it updated automatically. for example 0.1% of players (ie around 5 currently, rounded down) should be hit with toughest cap, 0.5% (around the top 6-25) should be hit with the next strongest cap, the top 2% of players (26-100) should be hit with the next strongest cap. If, heaven forbid, somebody catches up to another person in planets, they will be hit by the cap instead of the other guy!
It is imposable to even be comparable without caps. these caps slow the top players down but it is still almost impossible catch up to them but if they are moving caps they will make the top accounts more comparable. There should be these sort of caps in all 4 servers to encourage different strategies beyond, "i have a higher income, ur so screwed"
Limits do not mean being overtaken, they mean making peoples stats are less run away and more comparable, that's the only reason main server is considered reasonably balanced, caps are slowing people from running away with the game, but the top players are still the strongest!!
thanks,
chargin.
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:57 pm
by Forum
i do not know what you are referring to....which update? why/how is it bad? you tell me how bad it will be, but not what it is, or how it will be bad...
SVaRuN wrote:I ll write it again(was deleted the first time..."looks around")
Short style version
I personally find this update a really bad update! It s the worst update that have come to this day and I have been playing this game since March 2005!
Why is it the worst...because instead of making the only reasonable update in ascension mr admin you go and make smth like that.
REvolution!
Why does the thing still exist...Tell you what if you wish it to remain...make the same thing for main and TLE will personally show you what will happen...
We will pick the best acount there is...ok so lets say mister STI we will go and hammer it dow so hard that he ll end up with 1 mil units...and after that we ll pick a new one etc,...
And you seriously think mister STI etc will keep on playing this game starting from zero...cause that mr. admin is what you are expecting from the rest of us.
It is clear as hot babe in the middle of a church that there are two power houses literally rulling ascended...it is also clear that it has happened only because you let the option of raiding miner planets /and now indirectly left it by making it possible tio untrain it...it has happen only because of that!
So instead of fixing ascension making it more balanced giving ppl a chance you go and make an update like that. And if its an idea from other ppl let me guess..its from the power houses domain!...just a guess...
If you would to cancle the revolution you would see what would happen in a couple of months...alliances and ppl who are good in main wuld through buying ascension goods come to the top here also thus balancing the game...meaning ascension would ebcome live again as it was like 1,5 years ago+
But for some odd reason you decided to go with this...
Ok fine ...no doubt ppl will find a way to bare it to survive somehow...so ppl found it difficult to deascend ppl...could it be that all those good players...all those top main players who sucked in ascension because of the way ascension was built and have found the only way to protect themselves from being totally abused and destroyed by two powerhouses was to invest in LF...could it be that some didnt like it...very possibly...so now you give them again a chance to do smth about it...cause they are top they deserve the chance to do smth about it...
Right... ever thought about it...what if those other ppl would stop hiding and start actually playing ascensino if you would just give them a chance...and I am not talking about physical chance....I can always just sell 10 trills of main dmu and get myelf to top 150 in ascension and so on and on...but I do have a couple of brain cells that tell me the following...you were once rank 4 in ascension you were hammered down...you are now rank 800+...you coming to top 100...you will be hammered...with this sistem...you ll be hammered whenever they please it,...
So the big ones deserve a chance to do smth about the little ones who want to protect themselves and just wont go with the sistem that is soooo wrong that just about every lolekbolek can see it...In main you give them a realm called purgatory...and thats where there once was anti balanced but has been restored with a lot of effort...and here...instead of some pergatory/purgatory or whatever you give them this...
Weps to hit all those ppl...
Mr admin I never believed you are biased I dont believe it even now...but it is my personal opinion that either you cannot see the obvious or some ppl are intentionally covering your eyes with smoke and mirrors and are doing a prity good job at it...
God bless this update...ppl always cry about them...I personally think ppl shouldnt cry because of things being done...but because of things not being done...
I appologize if I have offended anyone in this post I appologze for picking on you Jeff you are a good guy only your armysize makes you very usable in many situations heh, sorry all the power houses in ascension and ppl just staying in it...sorry to all players i indirectly called them cowards for now playing the ascension...I ment you are smart ...and in the end sorry to you admin...I doubt you ll read it anyway but anyways Sorry jason for making your day even more grimmer...
Best Regards: Blue
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:59 pm
by Forum
1st update took it to the 'new' formula.
2nd update increased it according to the new formula.
without turns, the 'new' figures are not in till an upgrade is done (or i manually run a turn).
TheRook wrote:q3 wrote:It is just the first update it doubles in regards to life force max.
my originaly Life Force Max was at 42 which had increased it x3 as was "planned"
I upgraded it to 43 and it took my x3 multiplied Max Life Force and doubled it
then upgrade from 43 to 44 only increased it by about 100k
I'm just unsure if admin is already fixing it or thats a bug/glitch
just raising awareness
TheRook
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:01 pm
by Forum
i said i will, and i will....it will disappear...
Mojo Rising wrote:@Forum
The DMU-LF conversion rate is still wonky above 700 million planets. You said you were going to fix this. Please do so that I can start growing again instead of stagnating, waiting for everyone else in ascension to catch and pass me like I am standing still.
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:03 pm
by Forum
ok - on cache -> LF ... will think on it. not against it...
on revolution...i will look at it ... it does 2 types of planets now, yes? what if it just did one?
Munchy wrote:Alright, if lifeforce used for descension can only be saved saved up in your reserves then the reserve should be 15x your max lifeforce. So long as the 5x max lifeforce thing stays in it would then take 12 hours minimal to descend someone. At the same time you should then be able to manually transfer lifeforce from your cache to your reserves to fill it to the max. This way if someone is active, and logging onto ascension they can prevent themselves from being descended by being, well, active and constantly transferring lifeforce(which is what I want atleast, and I believe others). At the same time inactives would be easily descendable, which is what the top brass wants, right?
The max reserve can be played with, but you should atleast have 12 hours to save yourself, if not longer.
Also as others have said, revolution really needs to go. Raiding miners and now the equivalent to it has been one of the major factors that has made the server what it is now.
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:05 pm
by Forum
sometimes i wonder why i try....
TORN4DO wrote:i dont even get any of this stuff i hope you didnt make it worse as it allready is, alltho reading these comments you probably did
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:08 pm
by ~Zekk~
Forum wrote:sometimes i wonder why i try....
TORN4DO wrote:i dont even get any of this stuff i hope you didnt make it worse as it allready is, alltho reading these comments you probably did
because some of us love you?
~Zeke~
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:13 pm
by Forum
ok - in case people dont know -the update is not done. not even on the dev server. i am putting it in a 'piece at a time..' in order that you can test/comment, and i can keep working with feedback.
i had hoped to have it done by now on the dev, but obviously i do not. its bigger than i anticipated ...
that said - and my apology - i am keeping on this (and only this) until we have it sorted. its the only 'active activity' for me now.
i hope those that i promised it to be out by the weekend, can live with this staged to dev ascended approach. at least you can see and comment on the progress
it is 8pm here, sunday, and after a few wine with dinner with ALL the inlaws, i am putting away my keyboard
monday AM i start again moving forward here...
cheers
admin jason
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:19 pm
by Munchy
Forum wrote:ok - on cache -> LF ... will think on it. not against it...
on revolution...i will look at it ...
it does 2 types of planets now, yes? what if it just did one?
Munchy wrote:Alright, if lifeforce used for descension can only be saved saved up in your reserves then the reserve should be 15x your max lifeforce. So long as the 5x max lifeforce thing stays in it would then take 12 hours minimal to descend someone. At the same time you should then be able to manually transfer lifeforce from your cache to your reserves to fill it to the max. This way if someone is active, and logging onto ascension they can prevent themselves from being descended by being, well, active and constantly transferring lifeforce(which is what I want atleast, and I believe others). At the same time inactives would be easily descendable, which is what the top brass wants, right?
The max reserve can be played with, but you should atleast have 12 hours to save yourself, if not longer.
Also as others have said, revolution really needs to go. Raiding miners and now the equivalent to it has been one of the major factors that has made the server what it is now.
I honestly thought that it was just resource planets that got untrained.
As for my suggestion, it was originally said that it would be hard to descend people, and extremely hard to descend people if they were active and playing the game atleast, even if they did crap ascensions. With my suggestion atleast people have a slight chance...not great, but decent...
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:20 pm
by chargin
lol...Forum u missed the big red letters that said please read this.
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:22 pm
by RobinInDaHood
Forum wrote:on revolution...i will look at it ... it does 2 types of planets now, yes? what if it just did one?
Income planets should always be untouchable, either from raiding or revolution.
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:23 pm
by Forum
i agree. reservers can go to 15x
Munchy wrote:Forum wrote:ok - on cache -> LF ... will think on it. not against it...
on revolution...i will look at it ...
it does 2 types of planets now, yes? what if it just did one?
Munchy wrote:Alright, if lifeforce used for descension can only be saved saved up in your reserves then the reserve should be 15x your max lifeforce. So long as the 5x max lifeforce thing stays in it would then take 12 hours minimal to descend someone. At the same time you should then be able to manually transfer lifeforce from your cache to your reserves to fill it to the max. This way if someone is active, and logging onto ascension they can prevent themselves from being descended by being, well, active and constantly transferring lifeforce(which is what I want atleast, and I believe others). At the same time inactives would be easily descendable, which is what the top brass wants, right?
The max reserve can be played with, but you should atleast have 12 hours to save yourself, if not longer.
Also as others have said, revolution really needs to go. Raiding miners and now the equivalent to it has been one of the major factors that has made the server what it is now.
I honestly thought that it was just resource planets that got untrained.
As for my suggestion, it was originally said that it would be hard to descend people, and extremely hard to descend people if they were active and playing the game atleast, even if they did crap ascensions. With my suggestion atleast people have a slight chance...not great, but decent...
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:25 pm
by RobinInDaHood
By the way (and double post), it would make this MUCH easier Jason if you split each update you planned into a separate thread. There are so many suggestions, responses, and later comments from you that it's hard for me (and probably others, I'm not a dolt) to figure out what has been proposed, what is pending, and what has been rejected.
Please consider it. Thanks in advance.
Re: changes to ascension
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:27 pm
by Forum
so many words
Forum pls read this...
This update is so wrong, it seems to be for the very weak players and the very strong players and makes the strong players untouchable.
1. You can't just increase the APP>Life force every half a year or something, players in ascension grow too fast, it's just guess work.
if thats the core of it -- i see your point, but have no immediate solution. except to say that it is a bonus, and not the end game... ie - a rate for you is a rate for them. use it to become one of the fast growing accounts... now - maybe like turns->DMU i will ask: what is the best value of LF for each APP you have? if i set it today, hwo much should it grow per day, ro should it?
answer these questions, get some consensus, and maybe i can make it hapen
(and i did move it in the right direction at least, yes??? )
chargin wrote:lol...Forum u missed the big red letters that said please read this.