Page 14 of 18
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:31 am
by 311 [TA]
god wrote:Munchy wrote:god wrote:Munchy wrote:Bah, if this was to be implemented it would just become who has the bigger UP, bigger income, with skill being a minor thing. There are players with 200-300 k UP's now, even more really. Lets say someone is extremely 'skilled' in raiding and managed in their weeks worth of at's(1008) to raid 300 k uu's. That would be 300 uu per turn, not bad I suppose, 300 k growth in a week, with very little effort(or the most effort allowed by the game depending on your outlook.) On the other hand the other player with the good UP has made over 1 million uu's, and still has his at's and income to spend to get farther ahead, ect. Lets see, at the progress the first person has made he would catch up about...never, yet alone be able to fight in wars and whatnot.
as you pointed out, some of us are already sitting on 200-300k or more UPs, and hence we already aren't raideing because we don't need to.
reducing turns available would increase the spoils of raiding most likely 10 fold, if not more... so your person making 300k uu's per week would now be making 3 million uu's per week with the same amount of work, and now the top players would need UPs of more than 500k/day just to keep up with the simple raider.
obviously the best STRATEGY will now involve using both UP and raiding and farming and the whole spectrum to your advantage, not just one extreme or the other as it is now.
The person I imagined making 300 k uu per k of turns would be after your plan was implemented. Currently a decent average for a decent raider is 30 uu/turn. So 300 uu per turn is 10 times the current amount, for the 'simple raider'. As you can see it doesn't come close to matching the current top UP's. And uu intakes wouldn't go up more than that, obviously.
Are you sure? 311 just said that he would be willing to buy AT AT ANY PRICE as long as the spoils continued to spiral upward with the costs.
The higher the costs spiral, the more nair or UU the "little guy" will be able to get for his turns, the higher their UPs can be built...
I can't say that raid spoils would be 10X higher, but I can't say that they wouldn't.
just reducing the amount of turns available in the game by 1/10 would theoretically cause the 10X jump to happen... not producing artificial turns? could be 10X, could be 20X, could be 100X.
but any increase is better for the game and for the weaker players than what we currently have.
what you fail to realize any change in the game that SCALES the rate of growth for small players
DOES THE SAME THING FOR BIG PLAYERS but at a much larger multiple
so infact limiting attack turns will allow big players to grow at an even faster multiple then the small players do today!
im sure all the players at 50million cap that can only raid WOULD LOVE THIS CHANGE
they could get to 75 million ALOT FASTER if you limit attack turns now cant they?
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:33 am
by Vendetta
god wrote:Are you sure? 311 just said that he would be willing to buy AT AT ANY PRICE as long as the spoils continued to spiral upward with the costs.
The higher the costs spiral, the more nair or UU the "little guy" will be able to get for his turns, the higher their UPs can be built...
I can't say that raid spoils would be 10X higher, but I can't say that they wouldn't.
just reducing the amount of turns available in the game by 1/10 would theoretically cause the 10X jump to happen... not producing artificial turns? could be 10X, could be 20X, could be 100X.
but any increase is better for the game and for the weaker players than what we currently have.
so you think smaller guys are gonna catch up FASTER, buy selling thier turns once a month and putting it into UP? and then wait a month to do it again? untill they FINALLY after probably 2 years, reach your UP, so that they can grow at the same rate, even though your millions of UU ahead of them, so they then needf to get it even higher and wait another year or more, before finally surpassing you, then they can start building stats?
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:35 am
by Munchy
god wrote:Munchy wrote:god wrote:Munchy wrote:Bah, if this was to be implemented it would just become who has the bigger UP, bigger income, with skill being a minor thing. There are players with 200-300 k UP's now, even more really. Lets say someone is extremely 'skilled' in raiding and managed in their weeks worth of at's(1008) to raid 300 k uu's. That would be 300 uu per turn, not bad I suppose, 300 k growth in a week, with very little effort(or the most effort allowed by the game depending on your outlook.) On the other hand the other player with the good UP has made over 1 million uu's, and still has his at's and income to spend to get farther ahead, ect. Lets see, at the progress the first person has made he would catch up about...never, yet alone be able to fight in wars and whatnot.
as you pointed out, some of us are already sitting on 200-300k or more UPs, and hence we already aren't raideing because we don't need to.
reducing turns available would increase the spoils of raiding most likely 10 fold, if not more... so your person making 300k uu's per week would now be making 3 million uu's per week with the same amount of work, and now the top players would need UPs of more than 500k/day just to keep up with the simple raider.
obviously the best STRATEGY will now involve using both UP and raiding and farming and the whole spectrum to your advantage, not just one extreme or the other as it is now.
The person I imagined making 300 k uu per k of turns would be after your plan was implemented. Currently a decent average for a decent raider is 30 uu/turn. So 300 uu per turn is 10 times the current amount, for the 'simple raider'. As you can see it doesn't come close to matching the current top UP's. And uu intakes wouldn't go up more than that, obviously.
Are you sure? 311 just said that he would be willing to buy AT AT ANY PRICE as long as the spoils continued to spiral upward with the costs.
The higher the costs spiral, the more nair or UU the "little guy" will be able to get for his turns, the higher their UPs can be built...
I can't say that raid spoils would be 10X higher, but I can't say that they wouldn't.
just reducing the amount of turns available in the game by 1/10 would theoretically cause the 10X jump to happen... not producing artificial turns? could be 10X, could be 20X, could be 100X.
but any increase is better for the game and for the weaker players than what we currently have.
But it benifts the top players the same as the small players. How many times do we have to go through this? The top players will experience the
same increase in their farm intake as the smaller guys, and once they go through their turns to match that of the smaller people they will have their UP and income on top of that to grow even more, and because the growth would be limited, it would be impossible for the smaller player to catch up to the uu's the bigger guys make off of their UP/income. This circular reasononing is getting really old
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:36 am
by god
311 [TA] wrote:god wrote:they ARE unlimited.
the turns in the market weren't put there by other players, they were put there after the last time the market went dry.
They appeared from thin air.
They weren't produced from any normal game function, they were artificially placed there by forum.
What happened the last time the market went dry? Turns were produced out of thin air.
Time before? Miraculously appearing turns.
time before that? Still more turns from nowhere.
Just because YOU can't always afford to buy them doesn't mean that they aren't unlimited. Just means that YOU have limited resources.
where do the turns come from that you produce each turn
Um................................... THIN AIR!!!!!!!!!!!
Just like I make a turn every time 30mins........forum can make turns its just he can make alot more cuz he is the ADMIN...........i
they are not UNLIMITED there is a limit.........unlimited implies infinity and there is not that many turns there is a point where they stop........they may be re-seeded but they do not last forever
AND EVERYONES RESOURCES ARE LIMITED TO SOMETHIGN
NOBODY HAS INFINITY RESOURCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is an end to them they dont last forever,........now a person can invest so there resources make more but thats not infinity
god wrote:They weren't produced from any normal game function, they were artificially placed there by forum.
I guess you missed the part where I said NORMAL GAME FUNCTION.
As long as they are reseeded, THERE IS NO LIMIT. Hopefully forum realizes at some point how bad for the game reseeding is, and stops, at which point there WILL BE A LIMIT, but until then turns are unlimited.
It's true, nobody has unlimited resources, I never claimed that... however, the fact remains that there are still UNLIMITED TURNS.
You don't need unlimited resources to buy unlimited turns however, as you can just buy turns with your LIMITED RESOURCES from the UNLIMITED turn supply, raid or farm with those turns, use the spoils to buy more turns, do whatever with the proceeds and repeat.
hence, turns are unlimited even with limited resources, and the only limiting factor is time.
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:39 am
by Vendetta
311 [TA] wrote:
what you fail to realize any change in the game that SCALES the rate of growth for small players
DOES THE SAME THING FOR BIG PLAYERS but at a much larger multiple
so infact limiting attack turns will allow big players to grow at an even faster multiple then the small players do today!
im sure all the players at 50million cap that can only raid WOULD LOVE THIS CHANGE
they could get to 75 million ALOT FASTER if you limit attack turns now cant they?
311 cant you tell thier simply pissed that newer guys are able to catch them through work and they cant stay ahead by sitting on thier UP so thier trying to take that ability away from the smaller guys but at the same time make it sound like it benefits them MORE?
if your so content on allowing the smaller guys to grow? why not leave it how it is? it seems to work fine so far. only reason you could possibly want to change it is because some are surpassing you and you dont like it.
why? because you cant be assed to raid. and dont say its cause you dont have time, i can use 10k turns in 30mins and get an average of 400UU per 15 turns.
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:42 am
by god
Vendetta wrote:god wrote:Are you sure? 311 just said that he would be willing to buy AT AT ANY PRICE as long as the spoils continued to spiral upward with the costs.
The higher the costs spiral, the more nair or UU the "little guy" will be able to get for his turns, the higher their UPs can be built...
I can't say that raid spoils would be 10X higher, but I can't say that they wouldn't.
just reducing the amount of turns available in the game by 1/10 would theoretically cause the 10X jump to happen... not producing artificial turns? could be 10X, could be 20X, could be 100X.
but any increase is better for the game and for the weaker players than what we currently have.
so you think smaller guys are gonna catch up FASTER, buy selling thier turns once a month and putting it into UP? and then wait a month to do it again? untill they FINALLY after probably 2 years, reach your UP, so that they can grow at the same rate, even though your millions of UU ahead of them, so they then needf to get it even higher and wait another year or more, before finally surpassing you, then they can start building stats?
Maybe you haven't noticed, but UP upgrades get a bit more expensive as they get higher.
a new account could probably get to 100k UP in a month between selling turns, buying UP and selling UU if there weren't unlimited turns.
I never said that a new player should be able to catch up to someone who has been playing in a year, because THEY SHOULDN'T
maybe a couple of years down the road, with better strategy, but just by being spoonfed unlimited turns, and never having to use an ounce of strategy not in 50 years should they be able to even gain ground on a better player.
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:43 am
by 311 [TA]
Vendetta wrote:311 [TA] wrote:
what you fail to realize any change in the game that SCALES the rate of growth for small players
DOES THE SAME THING FOR BIG PLAYERS but at a much larger multiple
so infact limiting attack turns will allow big players to grow at an even faster multiple then the small players do today!
im sure all the players at 50million cap that can only raid WOULD LOVE THIS CHANGE
they could get to 75 million ALOT FASTER if you limit attack turns now cant they?
311 cant you tell thier simply pissed that newer guys are able to catch them through work and they cant stay ahead by sitting on thier UP so thier trying to take that ability away from the smaller guys but at the same time make it sound like it benefits them MORE?
if your so content on allowing the smaller guys to grow? why not leave it how it is? it seems to work fine so far. only reason you could possibly want to change it is because some are surpassing you and you dont like it.
why? because you cant be assed to raid. and dont say its cause you dont have time, i can use 10k turns in 30mins and get an average of 400UU per 15 turns.
your forgetting vendetta that you have the SKILL to raid that well
not everyone is so lucky.......
i think he may just be upset he doesn't know how to raid properly
or just wants to grow faster with less work
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:44 am
by god
Vendetta wrote:311 [TA] wrote:
what you fail to realize any change in the game that SCALES the rate of growth for small players
DOES THE SAME THING FOR BIG PLAYERS but at a much larger multiple
so infact limiting attack turns will allow big players to grow at an even faster multiple then the small players do today!
im sure all the players at 50million cap that can only raid WOULD LOVE THIS CHANGE
they could get to 75 million ALOT FASTER if you limit attack turns now cant they?
311 cant you tell thier simply pissed that newer guys are able to catch them through work and they cant stay ahead by sitting on thier UP so thier trying to take that ability away from the smaller guys but at the same time make it sound like it benefits them MORE?
if your so content on allowing the smaller guys to grow? why not leave it how it is? it seems to work fine so far. only reason you could possibly want to change it is because some are surpassing you and you dont like it.
why? because you cant be assed to raid. and dont say its cause you dont have time, i can use 10k turns in 30mins and get an average of 400UU per 15 turns.
I don't NEED to raid. the current setup of the game suits my account just fine. I am looking at the bigger picture and what is best for the game. Something that apparently isn't very common.
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:46 am
by 311 [TA]
god wrote:Vendetta wrote:god wrote:Are you sure? 311 just said that he would be willing to buy AT AT ANY PRICE as long as the spoils continued to spiral upward with the costs.
The higher the costs spiral, the more nair or UU the "little guy" will be able to get for his turns, the higher their UPs can be built...
I can't say that raid spoils would be 10X higher, but I can't say that they wouldn't.
just reducing the amount of turns available in the game by 1/10 would theoretically cause the 10X jump to happen... not producing artificial turns? could be 10X, could be 20X, could be 100X.
but any increase is better for the game and for the weaker players than what we currently have.
so you think smaller guys are gonna catch up FASTER, buy selling thier turns once a month and putting it into UP? and then wait a month to do it again? untill they FINALLY after probably 2 years, reach your UP, so that they can grow at the same rate, even though your millions of UU ahead of them, so they then needf to get it even higher and wait another year or more, before finally surpassing you, then they can start building stats?
Maybe you haven't noticed, but UP upgrades get a bit more expensive as they get higher.
a new account could probably get to 100k UP in a month between selling turns, buying UP and selling UU if there weren't unlimited turns.
I never said that a new player should be able to catch up to someone who has been playing in a year, because THEY SHOULDN'T
maybe a couple of years down the road, with better strategy, but just by being spoonfed unlimited turns, and never having to use an ounce of strategy not in 50 years should they be able to even gain ground on a better player.
so what was it that allowed MUNCHY to surpass 100s of players that have been playing for 1 year longer...........
I would say it was STRATEGY and SKILL to understand how to gain strength in this game
but you want to take POWER from a small player and make it IMPOSSIBLE for them to catch up in this game with ME for example, and I dont want that
i want to be kept on my toes that anybody can get past me if i start sleeping and acting lazy
GOD wants to just stay on ppt 4 days a week
rely on his up
and he is tired of newbs surpassing him by raiding
thats the real situation.
who is the one being selfish?
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:46 am
by Vendetta
311 [TA] wrote:your forgetting vendetta that you have the SKILL to raid that well
not everyone is so lucky.......
i think he may just be upset he doesn't know how to raid properly
or just wants to grow faster with less work
pretty much yeah
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:47 am
by god
311 [TA] wrote:god wrote:Vendetta wrote:god wrote:Are you sure? 311 just said that he would be willing to buy AT AT ANY PRICE as long as the spoils continued to spiral upward with the costs.
The higher the costs spiral, the more nair or UU the "little guy" will be able to get for his turns, the higher their UPs can be built...
I can't say that raid spoils would be 10X higher, but I can't say that they wouldn't.
just reducing the amount of turns available in the game by 1/10 would theoretically cause the 10X jump to happen... not producing artificial turns? could be 10X, could be 20X, could be 100X.
but any increase is better for the game and for the weaker players than what we currently have.
so you think smaller guys are gonna catch up FASTER, buy selling thier turns once a month and putting it into UP? and then wait a month to do it again? untill they FINALLY after probably 2 years, reach your UP, so that they can grow at the same rate, even though your millions of UU ahead of them, so they then needf to get it even higher and wait another year or more, before finally surpassing you, then they can start building stats?
Maybe you haven't noticed, but UP upgrades get a bit more expensive as they get higher.
a new account could probably get to 100k UP in a month between selling turns, buying UP and selling UU if there weren't unlimited turns.
I never said that a new player should be able to catch up to someone who has been playing in a year, because THEY SHOULDN'T
maybe a couple of years down the road, with better strategy, but just by being spoonfed unlimited turns, and never having to use an ounce of strategy not in 50 years should they be able to even gain ground on a better player.
so what was it that allowed MUNCHY to surpass 100s of players that have been playing for 1 year longer...........
I would say it was STRATEGY and SKILL to understand how to gain strength in this game
but you want to take POWER from a small player and make it IMPOSSIBLE for them to catch up in this game with ME for example, and I dont want that
i want to be kept on my toes that anybody can get past me if i start sleeping and acting lazy
he was spoonfed unlimited turns.
simple answer. no strategy involved.
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:49 am
by 311 [TA]
god wrote:311 [TA] wrote:god wrote:Vendetta wrote:god wrote:Are you sure? 311 just said that he would be willing to buy AT AT ANY PRICE as long as the spoils continued to spiral upward with the costs.
The higher the costs spiral, the more nair or UU the "little guy" will be able to get for his turns, the higher their UPs can be built...
I can't say that raid spoils would be 10X higher, but I can't say that they wouldn't.
just reducing the amount of turns available in the game by 1/10 would theoretically cause the 10X jump to happen... not producing artificial turns? could be 10X, could be 20X, could be 100X.
but any increase is better for the game and for the weaker players than what we currently have.
so you think smaller guys are gonna catch up FASTER, buy selling thier turns once a month and putting it into UP? and then wait a month to do it again? untill they FINALLY after probably 2 years, reach your UP, so that they can grow at the same rate, even though your millions of UU ahead of them, so they then needf to get it even higher and wait another year or more, before finally surpassing you, then they can start building stats?
Maybe you haven't noticed, but UP upgrades get a bit more expensive as they get higher.
a new account could probably get to 100k UP in a month between selling turns, buying UP and selling UU if there weren't unlimited turns.
I never said that a new player should be able to catch up to someone who has been playing in a year, because THEY SHOULDN'T
maybe a couple of years down the road, with better strategy, but just by being spoonfed unlimited turns, and never having to use an ounce of strategy not in 50 years should they be able to even gain ground on a better player.
so what was it that allowed MUNCHY to surpass 100s of players that have been playing for 1 year longer...........
I would say it was STRATEGY and SKILL to understand how to gain strength in this game
but you want to take POWER from a small player and make it IMPOSSIBLE for them to catch up in this game with ME for example, and I dont want that
i want to be kept on my toes that anybody can get past me if i start sleeping and acting lazy
he was spoonfed unlimited turns.
simple answer. no strategy involved.
HE WAS SPOONFED NOTHING
he worked his @ss off to get to where he is
if it was SO EASY
then there would be 1000 more people like him but there ISNT!
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:52 am
by god
311 [TA] wrote:god wrote:311 [TA] wrote:god wrote:Vendetta wrote:god wrote:Are you sure? 311 just said that he would be willing to buy AT AT ANY PRICE as long as the spoils continued to spiral upward with the costs.
The higher the costs spiral, the more nair or UU the "little guy" will be able to get for his turns, the higher their UPs can be built...
I can't say that raid spoils would be 10X higher, but I can't say that they wouldn't.
just reducing the amount of turns available in the game by 1/10 would theoretically cause the 10X jump to happen... not producing artificial turns? could be 10X, could be 20X, could be 100X.
but any increase is better for the game and for the weaker players than what we currently have.
so you think smaller guys are gonna catch up FASTER, buy selling thier turns once a month and putting it into UP? and then wait a month to do it again? untill they FINALLY after probably 2 years, reach your UP, so that they can grow at the same rate, even though your millions of UU ahead of them, so they then needf to get it even higher and wait another year or more, before finally surpassing you, then they can start building stats?
Maybe you haven't noticed, but UP upgrades get a bit more expensive as they get higher.
a new account could probably get to 100k UP in a month between selling turns, buying UP and selling UU if there weren't unlimited turns.
I never said that a new player should be able to catch up to someone who has been playing in a year, because THEY SHOULDN'T
maybe a couple of years down the road, with better strategy, but just by being spoonfed unlimited turns, and never having to use an ounce of strategy not in 50 years should they be able to even gain ground on a better player.
so what was it that allowed MUNCHY to surpass 100s of players that have been playing for 1 year longer...........
I would say it was STRATEGY and SKILL to understand how to gain strength in this game
but you want to take POWER from a small player and make it IMPOSSIBLE for them to catch up in this game with ME for example, and I dont want that
i want to be kept on my toes that anybody can get past me if i start sleeping and acting lazy
he was spoonfed unlimited turns.
simple answer. no strategy involved.
HE WAS SPOONFED NOTHING
he worked his @ss off to get to where he is
if it was SO EASY
then there would be 1000 more people like him but there ISNT!
he may have worked his @$$ off raiding, but the fact remains he had the time to do it, and unlimited turns to work with, that doesn't take strategy, all it takes is time.
anybody with more time could have done the same or better, but it doesn't mean that there would have been even an ounce of strategy involved.
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:53 am
by Munchy
lol, spoonfed, thats a good one. I actually used abit of strategy to get myself off of the ground, I didn't just raid when I started. After I got going I raided alot ofcourse.
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:54 am
by 311 [TA]
to take an account with around 1million UU and unascended
and get to munchy's size in the time he did it in, ascending to living god
TOOK STRATEGY..........and if you think it didnt, you are MISTAKEN!
after seeing his rapid growth, i was forced to re-evaluate my strategy
so there IS STRATEGY TO WHAT HE DID