just curious...

[GeneralChaos]

I notice suddenly Mr Mystake sucking up alot, where as before he wasnt, i suspect you'll see him with a green name soon, maybe he will take FS or Teal'auc place, espically when his trading buddy there jack is now a supermod.

[Nimras]

I notice suddenly Mr Mystake sucking up alot, where as before he wasnt, i suspect you'll see him with a green name soon, maybe he will take FS or Teal'auc place, espically when his trading buddy there jack is now a supermod.

Well if that happens it goes against all that should we already have a supermod to much in many oppinions of the supermods and not all but we will see what happens.

[Nox]

I was away for the few days before april 1 and had no knowledge of what
Tok`ra was going to do before that. When I got back (not sure if it was late into april 1 or early april 2 - as Jack says, the time zone thing is complicated and I don't remember exactly what time I did something that was over two months ago) I came on, found what was happening. Sure, I didn't ban him straight away (which tok`ra has admitted is the only thing I did which in anyway helped him) as I had to work out what was going on. I had a discussion with the various mods who were online and I said to them that it was clearly a prank of some kind but banning him right now could potentially give him credibility. Eventually admin Jason was contacted and he decided the best thing to do was to ban him.

Perhaps I could have handled it better but just because I didn't handle it perfectly (with hindsight) doesn't mean I was complicit in the act.

smoosh

smoosh, that didnt answer the question for why jenny and fs were fired has mods, i think answering that would help a lot of calming down ppl here.

The hiring/firing of mods is NOT the underlying issue in this matter. It is the way in which certain things are being done - which is very much akin to the way someone else used to do things that many, many people did not agree with.

Interesting how you mention democracy and state that it is not an option for the admin. In truth, what the admin has been trying to do is create MORE of a democracy in the forum (of course the problem with a democracy is that people more often than not end up voting for not what is best, then when they realise it they complain and moan about it!) . However, the way in which it has been done recently does nothing but undermine the jobs the mods are trying to do (probably unintentionally). It's like I said before - it's all about communication - and democracies don't really work without communication.

And there are things that can be done about it - as stated previously - there has ALWAYS been a process through which certain things are done here. When those processes are ignored, seemingly because it suits those who ignore them, then those involved (or not, as the case is!) have a right to demand explanations and reasons (of which very little is forthcoming)!

well, thats another question smoosh should answer, why can a supermod and section leader make someone a mod and fire a mod, i thought every mod appointed had to be voted by the forum admins and all supermods

again, not saying anything personal against Aurial, i would like to see smoosh's opionion on her being appointed a mod, since you can see a lot of ppl here in the forum against it, cause of her past

Yeah I'm getting him a supermod position because he's my friend, that's exactly why I made him a misc mod the second a position opened up.

lol, when i said that, i meant it, doesnt matter if you fired other friends or not, you choose her, because of all the ppl that applied or something like that, she was the person you liked the most and knew the most, dont deny it, its normal for someone to go for a friend rather then a stranger everyone does it


again, smoosh was rather silent all this topic, then he just answers the part about him working with tokra ?? other issues must be addressed by the forum admin, so pls smoosh, answer the community

[Teal'auc of the Void]

Well, it's pretty clear he won't. He has no valid reason for our dismissal and posting anything he'd make up would make him look as dodgy or silly. I wish he'd finally admit that to himself and those he choose to ditch for nothing...



Teal'auc

[Nox]

Well, it's pretty clear he won't. He has no valid reason for our dismissal and posting anything he'd make up would make him look as dodgy or silly. I wish he'd finally admit that to himself and those he choose to ditch for nothing...

Teal'auc

well, the thing is, i was a mod when smoosh took over, and i never thought of him has dodgy or someone to not address situations that need to be talked about, thats why im asking him

jenny, i always thought of you has a very good mod, but maybe you did something that we dont know, not even you realized you did it, we never know, i know wes did a few things has mod that he shouldnt, and i always thought of him has a friend, since he started playing sgw, but that whole thing of faking geishas and jakes accounts to post things, was very bad move and i told him that at the time, after i knew it was him, right at the time he should had been dismissed has a mod, but was given a 2nd chance, so that cant be the reason now, there must be another thing

and jenny, farming me while im posting is very bad sportsmanship lol
but what can one expect from a tokra that attacks her supposedly allies, the Tauri just jking

[Legendary Apophis]

Apophis, with all due respect... Admins should not dismiss mods just because they want and at whim. That smells like dictatorship... and nobody likes dictatorship. And as someone pointed out. Admins are not untouchable entity. Some were fired for way they conducted. I am not implying smooshable should be fired, all I want is FAIRNESS from him, not these double standards and personal unability to get over the fact someone disagrees with his ideas.

You may be ok with dictatorship and with admin who removes people at whim... I am glad there are people who'd rather see things smooth and fair and that not everyone sees it as Mystake and you. Your major thoughts are that admin can do as they want when they were assigned in charge of these forums. I hope you are mistaken.

As well... I see smooshable made his time to defend hijmself against cooperating with Tok'ra. Yet, he still didn't give VALID reason for our dismissal. Yes, there is probably none and it's either Smooshable trying to think of something what wouldn't look like utter bias, unfairness and the fact he let himself be affected by personal dislike OR he's waiting for Jason to tell us to shut up. That's not how honest admin should work. He's hidding like very doubtful person and it is if anything, very dodgy.



Teal'auc

I never said that I liked dictatorship, it's been proven that the democracy doesn't work here, and basically those who replace fired mods will do mistakes too, so my point was, don't say mods have past history, mods have biased actions, mods have this & that because nomatter who super experienced you'll put they'll do mistake a day, since a mistake is biased in itself there, since it's multi sided, one lock/warn can be bad for some, not for others, so if we take care of all mistakes by people, it's catastrophic!
I say let admins decide, but it requires admin fire mods only for very good reasons...didn't say if admin said so it's Truth with a capital t heh.
It requires everyone to have a good sense. Noone is exempted of it and then all will be good.
As long as the mod doesn't abuse his/her position, it's alright for me, otherwise, if bias is excessive and he/she reacts a way excessively or w/out reasons, then a fire can be decided, with good sense.

[Teal'auc of the Void]

well, the thing is, i was a mod when smoosh took over, and i never thought of him has dodgy or someone to not address situations that need to be talked about, thats why im asking him

jenny, i always thought of you has a very good mod, but maybe you did something that we dont know, not even you realized you did it, we never know, i know wes did a few things has mod that he shouldnt, and i always thought of him has a friend, since he started playing sgw, but that whole thing of faking geishas and jakes accounts to post things, was very bad move and i told him that at the time, after i knew it was him, right at the time he should had been dismissed has a mod, but was given a 2nd chance, so that cant be the reason now, there must be another thing

and jenny, farming me while im posting is very bad sportsmanship lol
but what can one expect from a tokra that attacks her supposedly allies, the Tauri just jking

Nox,

The thing is, even the mod team wasn't given VALID reason for our dismissal. He plainly announced we are not part of mod team anymore and that was it. No explanation given to his team either. That's not how things should be done... and if he's trying to dig some dirt on me, it's taking him long to construct something for my dismissal. Because if he had valid reason, he would tell me, he would tell to his team... and he would post here as well, because he was asked many times and yet no answer was given. So only thing I see as real is that he's trying to dig something on me and FS which would justify our dismissal. In front of the mod team, in front of the community and...

in front of himself as well.



Teal'auc

PS: Your buddies farm me when I am posting here as well, so I have to pick up some change

[smooshable]

Jenny: I have told you in private why you were dismissed. I tried to council you and discus with you and reason with you for quite a while. You are a dear friend but your personal feelings make you incapable of doing this job. I was prepared to just leave this as a private matter but the fact that you keep calling me out leaves me very little choice. The reason you can't be a mod is that no one is allowed to disagree with you. The straw that broke the cammels back was the other week with the signature issue.

For those of you unaware there are a few schools of thought on what to do with the signatures. My personal feeling was that we should have a liberal approach, one that allowed people to have any signatures that didn't break any of the existing forum rules. I was not alone in this view as other mods, supermods and members of the forums agreed with me. There were quite a few however that felt that we should perhaps take a more conservative approach and ban any signatures that display anything other than a players own name and alliance. To help settle this dispute I put up a public poll with the most popular option being the liberal approach. The mods (largely led by Teal`auc) who did not wish to see this become forum law decided to take the matter to Admin Jason (forum) to have him over rule me (as they are entitled to do). He agreed with me (and the people who voted to allow it) that we should allow signatures so long as they don't break forum rules. However Teal`auc could not accept that not only did the forum admin (me), the forum users and the owner of the game all disagreed with her. Instead she broke forum rules by masking swear words and generally acted in an arrogant manner all because she didn't get her way on this particular issue. Yes there were other mods who agreed with her who were not fired but it was not her disagreeing that cost her her position. It was the fact that she could not accept that people disagreed with her and that we needed to move on. This is not the first time this has happened and I have no doubt that it would not have been the last.

I'm not a baby sitter, I don't get paid for this. I simply do not have the time to deal with this as regularly as it happens. I need mods who can put forward their oppinions, discus them and then when all is said and done accept that I can't agree with everyone all the time. You expect me to side with you even in the face of a lot of other reistence and people with different ideas and when you don't get your way you throw a tantrum, it just proves that you can't do this job.

Nox: For at least as long as I have been a forum admin section leaders have chosen their underlings. This is nothing new, it's just one of the few times such a desision has been controversial.

smoosh

[Teal'auc of the Void]

It's you who cannot stand people to disagree with you, smoosh, and I assure you, this will be addressed more in privacy... and don't pull out this crap, there are far more mods who disagree with you, not 'just few'.

Have nice day.



Teal'auc

EDIT: Also, my major issue was not with decision like signatures and such. My major issue is lack of your willingness to work with the team. Lack of your willingness to listen to someone else than yourself and what suits you and your agendas, ideas. That is major issue, not this petty decison over signatures and such.

[MajorLeeHurts]

Smoosh I want to thank you for taking the time post and answer to these questions. Its been a long and uncomfortable thread for most. I only hope these issues can be resolved without damaging friendships and the viability of the Mod team.

[Richard_Destroyer]

Only just saw this Teal'auc sorry

[FreeSpirit]

Jenny: I have told you in private why you were dismissed. I tried to council you and discus with you and reason with you for quite a while. You are a dear friend but your personal feelings make you incapable of doing this job. I was prepared to just leave this as a private matter but the fact that you keep calling me out leaves me very little choice. The reason you can't be a mod is that no one is allowed to disagree with you. The straw that broke the cammels back was the other week with the signature issue.

Smoosh here goes your first flaw as jenny pointed it out but had the support of other mods aswell naming wolf359, me, nimras and some others as i recall.

For those of you unaware there are a few schools of thought on what to do with the signatures. My personal feeling was that we should have a liberal approach, one that allowed people to have any signatures that didn't break any of the existing forum rules. I was not alone in this view as other mods, supermods and members of the forums agreed with me. There were quite a few however that felt that we should perhaps take a more conservative approach and ban any signatures that display anything other than a players own name and alliance. To help settle this dispute I put up a public poll with the most popular option being the liberal approach. The mods (largely led by Teal`auc) who did not wish to see this become forum law decided to take the matter to Admin Jason (forum) to have him over rule me (as they are entitled to do). He agreed with me (and the people who voted to allow it) that we should allow signatures so long as they don't break forum rules. However Teal`auc could not accept that not only did the forum admin (me), the forum users and the owner of the game all disagreed with her. Instead she broke forum rules by masking swear words and generally acted in an arrogant manner all because she didn't get her way on this particular issue. Yes there were other mods who agreed with her who were not fired but it was not her disagreeing that cost her her position. It was the fact that she could not accept that people disagreed with her and that we needed to move on. This is not the first time this has happened and I have no doubt that it would not have been the last.

This is true however we discussed the lack of you communicating with others and how it pissed most mods off. It is not Jenny's fault that you cant seem to work with the team and as most of the team are here longer then you are they in this case saw things better then you did. We pointed that out and discussed it sadly we never got to end that discussion as you were so fast in removing us

I'm not a baby sitter, I don't get paid for this. I simply do not have the time to deal with this as regularly as it happens. I need mods who can put forward their oppinions, discus them and then when all is said and done accept that I can't agree with everyone all the time. You expect me to side with you even in the face of a lot of other reistence and people with different ideas and when you don't get your way you throw a tantrum, it just proves that you can't do this job.

You have volunteered for the job of personelle admin with all the pro's and cons involved. You are the one who has to work with the mod team and not dramaticly change things as you see fit even if we point out it fails and on what grounds it will fail

Nox: For at least as long as I have been a forum admin section leaders have chosen their underlings. This is nothing new, it's just one of the few times such a desision has been controversial.

smoosh

Nothing to add to that.

[Nox]

Jenny: I have told you in private why you were dismissed. I tried to council you and discus with you and reason with you for quite a while.
...

smoosh

i asked for you to answer this publicaly, cause has you can see, it was someone else then tealc creating the thread and lots of ppl were posting, somethings, i believe, work better if you just come out in the open with it, ofc other personal matters its better to go to private

Nox: For at least as long as I have been a forum admin section leaders have chosen their underlings. This is nothing new, it's just one of the few times such a desision has been controversial.

well, i didnt knew that, since i remembered i got the mod position with a vote, and some others after me also, but it was right when you started

and again, like i said, since its controversial, it needs to be addressed by you, the forum admin

[Teal'auc of the Void]

On funny note, he never really told me real reason for dismissal... except that he tried to make me blindly follow his ideas. I clearly disagreed with how things were done, lack of intern communication between team members and smooshable disregarding rest of the team. And his reasoning? He told me that the mod team cannot even agree on colour of their names! Which leaves us pondering that the team is not worth enough for him to spend time discussing things with the team.

Imo, smooshable shut down himself away from the mod team and thought they are that indecisive that he'd just do better by making decisions on his own. That's not right thing to do.



Teal'auc

[Nox]

...
The reasons why an employ is fired is between the employer, employee and future employers, no one else needs to know.

lol, thats the thing, this is not a job, its being a mod in a forum of free web-based game lol, you dont get payed anything, and if it involves the community that this forum and the ppl in the mod team serve, somethings like this one should be addressed to the community to avoid this kind of threads and most of the useless posts and useless discussions that were made

i never got why ppl think of this has a job, a job is where you get paid, everything else is voluntary work, you do it cause you want to!