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thats cool, but i dont judge peoples intelligence by how old/young i think they are

i give credit where credit is due...


as for your comment regarding how i see Govt, the Govt is always good at throwing out the baby along with the dirty water, marijuana has been proven to have medicinal properties and yet, its still illegal because it gets people high.

allowing people to suffer simply because "we" do not agree with the source of the pain relief, is that not kin to torture?

we claim to be civil which is why we grant animals mercy killings when they are badly hurt, but we cant stand to relieve a persons pain because of this evil plant called Marijuana. in my book, that is hypocrisy of the HIGHEST order.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:thats cool, but i dont judge peoples intelligence by how old/young i think they are

i give credit where credit is due...


as for your comment regarding how i see Govt, the Govt is always good at throwing out the baby along with the dirty water, marijuana has been proven to have medicinal properties and yet, its still illegal because it gets people high.

allowing people to suffer simply because "we" do not agree with the source of the pain relief, is that not kin to torture?

we claim to be civil which is why we grant animals mercy killings when they are badly hurt, but we cant stand to relieve a persons pain because of this evil plant called Marijuana. in my book, that is hypocrisy of the HIGHEST order.

I don't bring evil into a medicine I mainly do not like the application of smoking pot because other people are affected without a choice. You stated other remedies and I stated I have no problem with alternate remedies, plus there are many pain relief remedies without hallucinogenic applications. But I would like to state this I do not believe this is evil I only think that it can be dangerous as I say smoking it. I hope this is very clear the application of smoking to me is dangerous and smoking anything cant be good for you. As for oils or what ever it should be the persons choice, but the government that I see at least where I am prefers prevention of being sued rather than of risk of exploration.

In addition just cause you write a book and quote or source from it doesnt mean your right.

Also while I don't agree with any government on anything, I can not agree that pot smoking is good for you.

lone dragon wrote:I mainly do not like the application of smoking pot because other people are affected without a choice.

in what way does smoking pot harm others?

lone dragon wrote:You stated other remedies and I stated I have no problem with alternate remedies, plus there are many pain relief remedies without hallucinogenic applications.

yes there are, BUT, i'll use my brother as an example just as i did earlier, my brother suffers from sever arthritis in his knee because of an accident while on holiday, basically, he snapped in his leg at the knee and had it reconstructed instead of amputated as the doctor wished, now he has arthritis in that knee. he also suffers from sever and debilitating migraines. my brother has tried every single pain killer known to man and has injections at the base of his skull every 6 months for the migraines, none of which has helped and causes him more stress than pain relief. he has requested the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes because unlike pain killers and injections, marijuana helps the pain, relaxes him and eases the stress caused by the painful injections and leaves him in a state where he is able to function as a normal human being instead of crashed on the sofa suffering in agony.
my brother has been turned down and denied the use of medicinal marijuana so is forced to break the law so he can find some peace and dignity.

my brother is not alone, neither in his pain nor his denial of the use of medicinal marijuana...regardless of what anyone says here, if there is a person who suffers that much from pain, then who are we (or the Govt for that matter) to deny them relief from such suffering?

lone dragon wrote:But I would like to state this I do not believe this is evil I only think that it can be dangerous as I say smoking it. I hope this is very clear the application of smoking to me is dangerous and smoking anything cant be good for you.

maybe the inhalation of smoke is not good for the lungs...that doesn't stop the Govt from selling tobacco and reaping the tax money!

lone dragon wrote:As for oils or what ever it should be the persons choice, but the government that I see at least where I am prefers prevention of being sued rather than of risk of exploration.

sued by who and for what?

lone dragon wrote:In addition just cause you write a book and quote or source from it doesnt mean your right.

which book are you referring to?

lone dragon wrote:Also while I don't agree with any government on anything, I can not agree that pot smoking is good for you.

and yet, people can legally smoke tobacco which has been proven to be FAAAAAAAR more damaging than "pot".

Spoiler response....
[spoiler]

[KMA]Avenger wrote:

Mister Sandman wrote:Such views you hold are off topic. I have presented logic, with no religious agenda. I have dismissed imperfect logic and replaced it with mine. I.E Ideal logic.

You are now just resulting to childish accusations and claims. Why? Becuase you cannot argue against my cases and vast amounts of evidence.

how ironic! you accuse us of ignoring your evidence when its you that's ignored everyone else's evidence, not only that, but you also manage to sound magnanimous even after people have completely destroyed your credibility...

is that a gift you was born with or have you had to work hard at it?

1. I noted your 'evidence' looked at it, and looked at it, and saw it was either, a. Grasping at straws, or B. Pseudo-scientific

At the attempts to discredit my character. I just have to lol. For, it is my right, and liberty to be heard, understood and not judged. No matter if you like what i say or not.

With black, white, and yellow ethics,
Marijuana is not solely evil. It is the use, rather abuse, of the drugs, that has led to the political stance... It is deemed to be a social problem(health, moral, and community wise) ... Hence, illegal.




and FWI , I wasnt meaning kid as in the sense of age

[/spoiler]








Just a few things,

Q1:in what way does smoking pot harm others?
A1: Read before, your question has been answered many a time. For simplistically sake, let us take the fact that smoking Marijuana inhibits many functions of the human body. Including the decision making processes..... use logic bad decisions get people hurt. I.e driving while high.

Statment 1: maybe the inhalation of smoke is not good for the lungs...that doesn't stop the Govt from selling tobacco and reaping the tax money!

Statement A1: Irrelevant at the argument at hand. Just simply posting it .... What has the government 'reaping' the tax money got to do with the legalisation. By logic, governments would have alot of money to gain if they did legalise it. However, many governments, have seen the detrimental effects of smoking Marijuana and as a social justice and in consideration of the health of the people, they have not capitalised on such a risk. As with tobacco....considering the history of tobacco it has made aware that smoking is 'poison'. I do not think that anyone would disagree. However, with the industries already built, it would prove near to impossible to ban the production and sale of cigarettes, and thus, cigarettes are discouraged . This done by, high taxes on cigarettes, anti smoking campaigns and smoking regulatory laws and fines.


Statement 2: and yet, people can legally smoke tobacco which has been proven to be FAAAAAAAR more damaging than "pot".

Statement A2: Again, Irrelevant. Also, it is evident that, tobacco doesnt trigger possible mental conditions. .... while in using Marijuana , a mind altering drug, trends show the positive relationship of Marijuana use and mental illness(meaning it will be evident that a mental condition can be developed while under the use of Marijuana ).
Not saying Marijuana causes it, however, it is a trigger.

yes there are, BUT, i'll use my brother as an example just as i did earlier, my brother suffers from sever arthritis in his knee because of an accident while on holiday, basically, he snapped in his leg at the knee and had it reconstructed instead of amputated as the doctor wished, now he has arthritis in that knee. he also suffers from sever and debilitating migraines. my brother has tried every single pain killer known to man and has injections at the base of his skull every 6 months for the migraines, none of which has helped and causes him more stress than pain relief. he has requested the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes because unlike pain killers and injections, marijuana helps the pain, relaxes him and eases the stress caused by the painful injections and leaves him in a state where he is able to function as a normal human being instead of crashed on the sofa suffering in agony.
my brother has been turned down and denied the use of medicinal marijuana so is forced to break the law so he can find some peace and dignity.

my brother is not alone, neither in his pain nor his denial of the use of medicinal marijuana...regardless of what anyone says here, if there is a person who suffers that much from pain, then who are we (or the Govt for that matter) to deny them relief from such suffering?

There is a stronger thing than any medicine, however, i doubt you will see eye to eye with this. One of my friends, suffered of a condition similar to this, since birth.



your question i assume is :
If there is a person who suffers that [sever and debilitating migraines and so on] amount of pain then who are we (or the Govt for that matter) to deny them relief from such suffering?

Legal point of view.
The fact that it, Marijuana, is illegal.

Medical point of view.
The doctors probably had good reason to. Ask them. If not, go for a second opinion.

So who are they, to deny 'treatments' , they are 'professionals' . If you don't like it and you see it as a misconduct. Sue them [doctors and the state].

i'll leave you guys to play on your own...




*goes off to find the others*

[KMA]Avenger wrote:

lone dragon wrote:I mainly do not like the application of smoking pot because other people are affected without a choice.

in what way does smoking pot harm others?

lone dragon wrote:You stated other remedies and I stated I have no problem with alternate remedies, plus there are many pain relief remedies without hallucinogenic applications.

yes there are, BUT, i'll use my brother as an example just as i did earlier, my brother suffers from sever arthritis in his knee because of an accident while on holiday, basically, he snapped in his leg at the knee and had it reconstructed instead of amputated as the doctor wished, now he has arthritis in that knee. he also suffers from sever and debilitating migraines. my brother has tried every single pain killer known to man and has injections at the base of his skull every 6 months for the migraines, none of which has helped and causes him more stress than pain relief. he has requested the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes because unlike pain killers and injections, marijuana helps the pain, relaxes him and eases the stress caused by the painful injections and leaves him in a state where he is able to function as a normal human being instead of crashed on the sofa suffering in agony.
my brother has been turned down and denied the use of medicinal marijuana so is forced to break the law so he can find some peace and dignity.

my brother is not alone, neither in his pain nor his denial of the use of medicinal marijuana...regardless of what anyone says here, if there is a person who suffers that much from pain, then who are we (or the Govt for that matter) to deny them relief from such suffering?

lone dragon wrote:But I would like to state this I do not believe this is evil I only think that it can be dangerous as I say smoking it. I hope this is very clear the application of smoking to me is dangerous and smoking anything cant be good for you.

maybe the inhalation of smoke is not good for the lungs...that doesn't stop the Govt from selling tobacco and reaping the tax money!

lone dragon wrote:As for oils or what ever it should be the persons choice, but the government that I see at least where I am prefers prevention of being sued rather than of risk of exploration.

sued by who and for what?

lone dragon wrote:In addition just cause you write a book and quote or source from it doesnt mean your right.

which book are you referring to?

lone dragon wrote:Also while I don't agree with any government on anything, I can not agree that pot smoking is good for you.

and yet, people can legally smoke tobacco which has been proven to be FAAAAAAAR more damaging than "pot".

1/ this book

in my book, that is hypocrisy of the HIGHEST order.

2/

lone dragon wrote:But I would like to state this I do not believe this is evil I only think that it can be dangerous as I say smoking it. I hope this is very clear the application of smoking to me is dangerous and smoking anything cant be good for you.

maybe the inhalation of smoke is not good for the lungs...that doesn't stop the Govt from selling tobacco and reaping the tax money!

I don't agree with tobacco either

3/

lone dragon wrote:As for oils or what ever it should be the persons choice, but the government that I see at least where I am prefers prevention of being sued rather than of risk of exploration.

sued by who and for what?

If something is legal and sanction it means the government and any government which has a legal system and has the right to sue can be sued.

4/

my brother is not alone, neither in his pain nor his denial of the use of medicinal marijuana...regardless of what anyone says here, if there is a person who suffers that much from pain, then who are we (or the Govt for that matter) to deny them relief from such suffering?

While I agree in this kinda case pain relief for sever case has merit and I agree it can their are other methods such as herbs that may either be as affective or more beneficial than pot smoking and remember it can be used as a topological oil..Did you know their are better herbs for arthritis than marijuana.

oh..

he snapped in his leg at the knee and had it reconstructed instead of amputated as the doctor wished, now he has arthritis in that knee. he also suffers from sever and debilitating migraines. my brother has tried every single pain killer known to man and has injections at the base of his skull every 6 months for the migraines, none of which has helped and causes him more stress than pain relief. he has requested the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes because unlike pain killers and injections, marijuana helps the pain, relaxes him and eases the stress caused by the painful injections and leaves him in a state where he is able to function as a normal human being instead of crashed on the sofa suffering in agony.

any doctor that doesnt try harder than this one to do anything to assist and keep that leg I would believe is negligent. As for better stuff their is some interesting herbal medicines to assist and get his life back, but honestly I hope your brother is getting better..

I think marijuana can be very dangerous but this application is very different than recreational use. Its medically supported so I dont think their is a question about the validity and merit or its use it this particular situation, but I still say in general it should not be used, but this particular situation it would be a good idea, but I would be looking for other ways to assist and help with he pain and to assist you brother to have the best and fullest life that he can.

@lone dragon:

PLEASE dont take this the wrong way, i mean no disrespect in anyway BUT...i believe its because of posts like yours and especially Sandmans which is putting people off from debating this topic to its fullest.

i asked you "sued by who, and for what?" and you gave a non-answer, while all answers may be replies, not all replies are answers...i asked you a question and you didnt answer me, so i ask again, sued by who and (this is the part that REALLY needs to be answered) for what???

i also asked you which book you was referring to and you quoted me as saying "in my book", the saying "in my book" means "in my opinion", that doesn't mean i actually wrote a book on the subject of hypocrisy...


like i said, i mean no disrespect to you and neither am i trying to offend you BUT...

this will be my last post in this topic because the saying "flogging a dead horse" comes to mind

[KMA]Avenger wrote:@lone dragon:

PLEASE dont take this the wrong way, i mean no disrespect in anyway BUT...i believe its because of posts like yours and especially Sandmans which is putting people off from debating this topic to its fullest.

i asked you "sued by who, and for what?" and you gave a non-answer, while all answers may be replies, not all replies are answers...i asked you a question and you didnt answer me, so i ask again, sued by who and (this is the part that REALLY needs to be answered) for what???

i also asked you which book you was referring to and you quoted me as saying "in my book", the saying "in my book" means "in my opinion", that doesn't mean i actually wrote a book on the subject of hypocrisy...


like i said, i mean no disrespect to you and neither am i trying to offend you BUT...

this will be my last post in this topic because the saying "flogging a dead horse" comes to mind

Well when you come up with some real evidence then come on down, but no offense the world is not a conspiracy..

Why do you some people want the government to do everything for them.

When you grow up your not supposed to need mommy and daddy anymore.

Drugs arent bad... and you will never stop people from taking them. Overdoing anything is bad for you and making them illegal makes those with serious addictions less likely to find help and seek treatment. Just accept the fact that some things shouldn't be legislated. Like where i can live. What i'm aloud to eat. And what i choose to smoke, inject, or sniff.

Smoking among young people has fallen dramatically, not because we made it illegal but because people realize it's bad for you. Trust in other's to make informed decisions when given the facts.

legalizing them will cut the legs out of drug cartels and corrupt governments who, enslave, kill, and extort there local populations.

and plz understand legalize does not mean legitimize.

LOL

Thriller, mate, that's somewhat along the lines of what I was saying and there were plenty of great arguments to that effect being made. Every serious person has stopped replying to this thread because of two clowns' mad pseudo-logic skillz.

Just sayin'...

Oh yeah and as a note: I won't be able to reply to the angry replies this post might cause, because I'm wandering into the internet-less world for 3-4 days.

Cat ciao!

Agapooka

The problem is that when you put up a sign that says "Intelligent Discussion", there isn't anybody who stands at the door and says "I'm not particularly intelligent, I'd better leave". There are even fewer people who will withdraw when they dive in out of their depth. Everyone thinks they have the most valid viewpoint.

What **filtered**s me about this thread is not so much the bickering and radically different ideologies. It's the fact that some people don't know how to use spoilers; and worse, some can not construct a legible argument. I'm sure some points make sense, but much of this thread is painful to read. I cannot recall the last post that came close to a "Hypothesis -> Evidence -> Conclusion" format.

Everyone just needs to smoke a whole bag of weed and chill the **filtered** out.

GG

Agapooka wrote:LOL

Thriller, mate, that's somewhat along the lines of what I was saying and there were plenty of great arguments to that effect being made. Every serious person has stopped replying to this thread because of two clowns' mad pseudo-logic skillz.

Just sayin'...

Oh yeah and as a note: I won't be able to reply to the angry replies this post might cause, because I'm wandering into the internet-less world for 3-4 days.

Cat ciao!

Agapooka

I only read the last two pages, because we already discussed this in an older thread. Sandman and others gave the same old arguments and i discussed them at length, so i just was throwing in my two cents again.

But dont you always take the side you dont agree with pooka, this isnt like you....

Thriller, it wouldn't be like me to be this predictable...

Besides, if a general rule can be made, it would be that I choose sides based on how and why the conclusion was made as opposed to what the conclusion actually is.

Agapooka Mobile Edition