Happy Birthday ETL! - TAF vs. OE

[Black wolf]

If OE surrender and admit defeat on this occasion then i will have more respect for them that if this war drags on and we loose OE due to players leaving and so on.

[Belsamber]

[spoiler]

lol if you recall the first offer I gave was for an eternal NAP...one where we never saw each other ingame again. Minimum we want is 6 months (of course with the option for it continue).

For some reason you think a shorter NAP will solve our issues more than a longer NAP which is your prerogative I guess. Regardless, what will truly solve this problem is you facing the situation you are in and admitting defeat.

Now aside from all of that. I think you will notice how peaceful situations become with alliances we get NAPs with. They are good solutions to problems because, surprise surprise, noone attacks eachother. If someone does attack the other, it's repaid. Easy. No problems. The best way to get rid of bad blood and to calm tensions is not to see the other in the attack logs ever. Each time someone attacks allows someone to think "this wasn't worth taking" or "I should respond by hitting two of their members" so on and so forth. We've seen every permutation of how the lack of a NAP can lead to war, especially with Omega.

You should ask the other alliances we have NAPs with about how frequently we violate them. Aside from new members who haven't read treaties yet, we have no problems abiding by our treaties. If you're suggesting that OE will constantly break the NAP after it's signed, then that's another matter...but I don't think you will.

Again I don't think you understand the situation of this war. This isn't about me convincing you the merits of a long NAP. This is about you impressing us with terms and showing some humility. You have no idea how far some humility will go in this game towards our attitudes and how we will treat you. I have no problem with putting away bad blood if you show respect to what has truthfully happened in this war and, trust me, if I can put away bad blood with Omega, anyone can.

Edit @ Tziki and Rudy: Yes, we've had similar clauses with long NAPs before to keep insults away from the forums and from pm's. That's pretty standard protocol.

[/spoiler]

You should be a philosopher my word your posts are something of another caliber kudos mate.

On Topic: Hope an agreement can be decided on

Cheers
~Belsamber~

[~Tziki~]

straight from the horses mouth folks...


NAP + no negative comments from either party (which only inspires positive ones) = bad blood is given the chance to flourish into something special


just ask yourself Rudy, do you want the hostilities to go away? do you want our two alliances to get on with each other?

then carefulyl consider the above post by math and myself. it can all be over, and all be nice and friendly if you do TWO things, do these two things and you get atleast two things in return.

admit defeat to our efforts in this war, provide us a long term nap. = We stop the massings, we stop posting negative things about each other, our attitude and respect to OE is slightly improved (yes this is more than 2, but im proving a point), TAF stick to their naps, you will be allowed the chance to build and recruit and return to former glory without hinderance from TAF.

id say your getting a damn good deal!

[Rudy Peña]

lol if you recall the first offer I gave was for an eternal NAP...one where we never saw each other ingame again. Minimum we want is 6 months (of course with the option for it continue).

For some reason you think a shorter NAP will solve our issues more than a longer NAP which is your prerogative I guess. Regardless, what will truly solve this problem is you facing the situation you are in and admitting defeat.

Now aside from all of that. I think you will notice how peaceful situations become with alliances we get NAPs with. They are good solutions to problems because, surprise surprise, noone attacks eachother. If someone does attack the other, it's repaid. Easy. No problems. The best way to get rid of bad blood and to calm tensions is not to see the other in the attack logs ever. Each time someone attacks allows someone to think "this wasn't worth taking" or "I should respond by hitting two of their members" so on and so forth. We've seen every permutation of how the lack of a NAP can lead to war, especially with Omega.

You should ask the other alliances we have NAPs with about how frequently we violate them. Aside from new members who haven't read treaties yet, we have no problems abiding by our treaties. If you're suggesting that OE will constantly break the NAP after it's signed, then that's another matter...but I don't think you will.

Again I don't think you understand the situation of this war. This isn't about me convincing you the merits of a long NAP. This is about you impressing us with terms and showing some humility. You have no idea how far some humility will go in this game towards our attitudes and how we will treat you. I have no problem with putting away bad blood if you show respect to what has truthfully happened in this war and, trust me, if I can put away bad blood with Omega, anyone can.

Edit @ Tziki and Rudy: Yes, we've had similar clauses with long NAPs before to keep insults away from the forums and from pm's. That's pretty standard protocol.

Yes you want long term nap. But thats doing nothing to have a better relaionship. You want nothing to do ingame but a NAP. What good is a NAP when it will be broken again, like it has in the past. When tensions will always be high between our two empire.

Math, Please answer my questions. Do you think with a long NAP and high tensions that war will not happen again?

I do want to know your answers.

What truthfully happen, both sides farmed, one member of one side massed someone then hit ppt. When the other side when to mass back, the other side declared war.

Like i told you on msn the reasons for the war started do not matter. What does matter is that we end it and start to build a new relationship.

[Rudy Peña]

straight from the horses mouth folks...


NAP + no negative comments from either party (which only inspires positive ones) = bad blood is given the chance to flourish into something special


just ask yourself Rudy, do you want the hostilities to go away? do you want our two alliances to get on with each other?

then carefulyl consider the above post by math and myself. it can all be over, and all be nice and friendly if you do TWO things, do these two things and you get atleast two things in return.

admit defeat to our efforts in this war, provide us a long term nap. = We stop the massings, we stop posting negative things about each other, our attitude and respect to OE is slightly improved (yes this is more than 2, but im proving a point), TAF stick to their naps, you will be allowed the chance to build and recruit and return to former glory without hinderance from TAF.

id say your getting a damn good deal!

That is the problem, You guys will keep talking crap, which will cause us to talk crap back. That does nothing to help anything but make it worse. Please leave the talk to end the war with the people who can make it happen and stop posting things like we will talk crap till you admit defeat.

[~Tziki~]

you seem willing to build a new relationship, thats a step in the right direction in my oppinion.

a long term nap will reduce actualy hostilities, which in turn will reduce feelings towards each other. So yes a long term nap will work, provided you can ensure your members dont break it, as TAF rarely breaks anything.

it works a lot more if any breaks in naps are dealt with diplomatically rather than straight up retalliation.

[Black wolf]

yeah your right there Tziki HC hate it when some1 breaks our naps haha

But yes a long term nap would help OE build back up and would also help attract new players and maybe we could see OE as a powerhouse alliance again, not this dead alliance.

[Mathlord]

Your talkin about the relationship with each other not being solved by a long term nap, but if you show the trust / faith in TAF and respect to what we have done in this war by admitting defeat this time. Who's to say everyone in TAF wont agree you have done the respectful thing, as a player and leader?

Admitting defeat, and accepting our terms will do a lot more for the mutual respect and overall though process towards each other than you seem to realise.

you have to give us a little, if you want us to give something back and so far there is nothing you are giving that we want.

Perhaps by agreeing to our terms, in return we can agree that along side the long term nap, there is to be no negative posting about each other on forums, or in game.

TAF will not get what they want, cause what TAF wants does not attempt to fix this.

Like you said, you are in no position in TAF do say anything like you did.

What TAF is not asking for is not little, Asking for a long term NAP and that is all. With the chance of making things better.

What i am asking is making it better here and now, not in the future or a chance in the future.

Math told me himself, he wants the long term NAP so we never have to war again. That is doing nothing but putting a short term stop.

Damn straight I don't want this war to come back. I want RESOLUTION. Right here and now. Finish it and be done with it. No more couple month waits in between fights only for it to get hot again because you can't accept seeing us in your logs when you show up in ours. When a war ends, I want it ended. Too long I've seen the same bloody alliances with the same bloody issues over and over in my military history.

Six month NAP minimum. How would a shorter NAP provide a longer term stop to the problem? The longer we are away from each other the better. I also honestly don't get this whole "earning" a long NAP thing. You act like there will be so many violations that it won't work. We both know full well you'll break a long NAP and go back to war if you dislike how it's going so I don't see why having a longer time frame to start hurts anything except preventing you from rejecting the NAP extension after 3 months?

The thing you don't get though is TAF isn't in any mood to let you walk away without admitting defeat. Why should we show you respect when you don't respect us by giving us our due in this war. This is the first war in memory that the Omegan Empire loses all of their defenses but can't bring down the defenses of their opponents. You have to accept what has happened in this war before we can move on and start working to improve relations.

[doc holliday]

actually we've had a really long NAP with DDE and Mayhem. I'm starting to think their nicer guys now that their not in our logs everyday. It's definitely helped towards better relations. Humility will help the most though. Humbleness. Be humble.

[~Tziki~]

I shall take my leave now. i believe i have offered any and all advise i can.

[dgb]

We got a long term nap with dde and its worked well,among othere alliances all have worked well,as wel send pms if mistakes are made have freindly banter,it does work.

[dgb]

o ye well said nathan

[Mathlord]

Math, Please answer my questions. Do you think with a long NAP and high tensions that war will not happen again?

I do want to know your answers.

What high tensions? Do you see us massing DDE constantly? Fighting with Mayhem people on the forums all the time? We've fought both of those empires/alliances for years in the past but we all realized that it would be better for all of us to avoid war instead of fight war. Long NAPs, no insults on the forum caused everyone to go their separate ways and not care anymore. I've heard many times that OE doesn't actually care about TAF and its members and that it's TAF with the deep seeded hatred and all that yadda yadda. We are perfectly capable of moving on when shown respect and given credit when credit is due.

Yes I don't think war will happen again because 5 months into our 6 month NAP, we will broker another extension...both sides will see that this NAP is not only functional, but productive for our desires. TAF is a peaceful alliance first and foremost. We war when people threaten us or attack us. We don't go out looking for war.

[Rudy Peña]

you seem willing to build a new relationship, thats a step in the right direction in my oppinion.

a long term nap will reduce actualy hostilities, which in turn will reduce feelings towards each other. So yes a long term nap will work, provided you can ensure your members dont break it, as TAF rarely breaks anything.

it works a lot more if any breaks in naps are dealt with diplomatically rather than straight up retalliation.

It will not work, due to Math even admitting that he wants nothing to do ingame. Which means, nothing will change. It will be more of a cease fire than a NAP.

Your talkin about the relationship with each other not being solved by a long term nap, but if you show the trust / faith in TAF and respect to what we have done in this war by admitting defeat this time. Who's to say everyone in TAF wont agree you have done the respectful thing, as a player and leader?

Admitting defeat, and accepting our terms will do a lot more for the mutual respect and overall though process towards each other than you seem to realise.

you have to give us a little, if you want us to give something back and so far there is nothing you are giving that we want.

Perhaps by agreeing to our terms, in return we can agree that along side the long term nap, there is to be no negative posting about each other on forums, or in game.

TAF will not get what they want, cause what TAF wants does not attempt to fix this.

Like you said, you are in no position in TAF do say anything like you did.

What TAF is not asking for is not little, Asking for a long term NAP and that is all. With the chance of making things better.

What i am asking is making it better here and now, not in the future or a chance in the future.

Math told me himself, he wants the long term NAP so we never have to war again. That is doing nothing but putting a short term stop.

Damn straight I don't want this war to come back. I want RESOLUTION. Right here and now. Finish it and be done with it. No more couple month waits in between fights only for it to get hot again because you can't accept seeing us in your logs when you show up in ours. When a war ends, I want it ended. Too long I've seen the same bloody alliances with the same bloody issues over and over in my military history.

Six month NAP minimum. How would a shorter NAP provide a longer term stop to the problem? The longer we are away from each other the better. I also honestly don't get this whole "earning" a long NAP thing. You act like there will be so many violations that it won't work. We both know full well you'll break a long NAP and go back to war if you dislike how it's going so I don't see why having a longer time frame to start hurts anything except preventing you from rejecting the NAP extension after 3 months?

The thing you don't get though is TAF isn't in any mood to let you walk away without admitting defeat. Why should we show you respect when you don't respect us by giving us our due in this war. This is the first war in memory that the Omegan Empire loses all of their defenses but can't bring down the defenses of their opponents. You have to accept what has happened in this war before we can move on and start working to improve relations.

I have offered you a 5 month long NAP, that is good enough. There wont be so many voilations, but can you tell me that there wont be someone who will talk crap.

You talk about dues, you asked for a 6 month long nap and wouldnt take anything less only after being in war for 2 weeks.

I am not saying that we are not accepting that we cant bring down all the defs.

OE will go as high as 5 months with talks starting at 4 months to renew the NAP. There will be no **Filtered** talking from either side. If any side breaks the NAP, the person will pay back double of the naq that was taken.

Both sides start to talk to each other to put the bad blood behind us.

That is what I am offering TAF. You can take it or you can keep the war going.

But remember what i said. Just cause TAF is doing fine right now and the war keeps going, some of your members will start to leave. Those will be the ones that already want it to end will most likey to be leaving.

[Rudy Peña]

Math, Please answer my questions. Do you think with a long NAP and high tensions that war will not happen again?

I do want to know your answers.

What high tensions? Do you see us massing DDE constantly? Fighting with Mayhem people on the forums all the time? We've fought both of those empires/alliances for years in the past but we all realized that it would be better for all of us to avoid war instead of fight war. Long NAPs, no insults on the forum caused everyone to go their separate ways and not care anymore. I've heard many times that OE doesn't actually care about TAF and its members and that it's TAF with the deep seeded hatred and all that yadda yadda. We are perfectly capable of moving on when shown respect and given credit when credit is due.

Yes I don't think war will happen again because 5 months into our 6 month NAP, we will broker another extension...both sides will see that this NAP is not only functional, but productive for our desires. TAF is a peaceful alliance first and foremost. We war when people threaten us or attack us. We don't go out looking for war.

By high tesions, I mean by how Beli talked crap on the forums, massed member of OE when they talked crap back.

I might be over thinking the high tesions, but thats me and always thinking worse things. lol