StarGateWars Forums

Curumo wrote:Svarun, I think we've all fell victim to that a couple of times

Heck learn to live with it and just return it to those who were against you

If we did that then we would find out after the war that a bunch of them were funding, and then have to chase them up on it in the next war, and then new people would do it, and we'd have to chase them up the war after that. Much easier to just burn them all.

Tis a shame that a few can ruin it for many, but hey, thats life.

FUALL alliances have massed entire alliances for 1 or 2 members actions many times before, so i dont see why your all claiming this is unfair? The only difference with what all of you did and what we're doing, is we're getting tributes, not massing.

Acronon wrote: heck some of you may remember how me and Fury used to go at each other but we still talked to one another from time to time

Fury hates you....

I want an option, increase tributes by adding blahh gets something to the list of "demands"

anyone care to add their sides official response to the results?

The official lists were completed before the war, not long after FUALL conducted covert reports on our members (which in the past has been considered to be an act of war by many alliances).

The lists were checked and rechecked and found to be correct.
There is always chance of human error but we think we have them right.

I am only one member of the Task Force Senate and as such can only officially speak as leader of TLD.

I can say though that Tributes (as we knew them) are out.

We now have Repatriation Centre established so that soldiers can be removed from the front line (Official Hit list).

Please feel free to contact any of the following official Repatriation Officers if you have any further questions.

Avitir, Deity, Purple One, Pef and Vendetta


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Repatriation (from late Latin repatriare - to restore someone to his homeland) is the process of return of refugees or soldiers to their homes, most notably following a war. The term may also refer to the process of converting a foreign currency into the currency of one's own country.

Robe wrote:The official FUALL lists were completed 4 weeks before the war.
This was weeks after FUALL conducted covert reports on our members.

Was this part really necissary Sue?

I mean really, you going to say no TLE members were spying on FUA members prior to 4 weeks before the war?

I'm willing to be every last UU on my account there has not been a day go by since the creation of these two empires that some form of covert activity wasn't carried out on a daily basis.

I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

Lore wrote:

Robe wrote:The official FUALL lists were completed 4 weeks before the war.
This was weeks after FUALL conducted covert reports on our members.

Was this part really necissary Sue?

I mean really, you going to say no TLE members were spying on FUA members prior to 4 weeks before the war?

I'm willing to be every last UU on my account there has not been a day go by since the creation of these two empires that some form of covert activity wasn't carried out on a daily basis.

I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

I think Sue meant that it was weeks after FUALL mass coverted (ie a group of FUALL members gathering covert on every one of our members)

Lore wrote:I mean really, you going to say no TLE members were spying on FUA members prior to 4 weeks before the war?

One or two members randomly coverting yes, everyone does a random covert of (supposed) allies but not the planned mass coverting of all FUALL (Not until the 4 weeks before the war)

Haz wrote:

Lore wrote:I mean really, you going to say no TLE members were spying on FUA members prior to 4 weeks before the war?

One or two members randomly coverting yes, everyone does a random covert of (supposed) allies but not the planned mass coverting of all FUALL (Not until the 4 weeks before the war)

How can we trust you on that? Everyone lies. People rarely tell the truth.

Personally, it does not bother me what so ever. But good to know the tribute was removed. Shows class.

Thats a good point Noobert.
Our Perceptions do not equal objective reality.

I can only post what I believe to be correct based on the information and knowledge I have at the time. I could draw up a time line but that would probably bore everyone senseless

Basically, once we realised FUALL was conducting comprehensive covert reports, it seemed sensible to do the same.

Our repatriation process varies from tributes but still requires a modest payment (to express good faith). We have reduced the risk of personal prejudices by standardising rates. The HC felt this was still necessary because our experience shows that no one values anything they get for free.

I welcome feedback (from both sides of the fence) to these changes on msn so we can continue to improve our program.

Robe wrote:The official lists were completed before the war, not long after FUALL conducted covert reports on our members (which in the past has been considered to be an act of war by many alliances).

The lists were checked and rechecked and found to be correct.
There is always chance of human error but we think we have them right.

Which is why TJP hit some people who weren't in the war and are now paying reparation to them for wrongful hits. So they weren't that correct.

I still find the idea of anything more than a token payment abhorrent, especially given the list of people who can accept. Some of them at least aren't exactly what you'd call reasonable.

i couldnt care less how much it is anyway im not paying

So no tribute to TLE now? huh...

Can the terms all be listed for both sides now? Ive been gone for a week and have no clue whats going on...

Terms/procedure for getting out are the same. "Trubutes" are now reparations and we use a different way of "calculating" them. Thats about it. No freebies hehe.

I like option A myself

Wolf359 wrote::roll:
Alliances are free to demand what they want (should've been an option in the poll really - hence I haven't voted)- it's up to the individuals concerned to decide whether they can accept the terms or not, whether they are fair or not depedning on their circumstances, taking into account how much they want out of the war. In some cases it may persuade people that it is better to stay and fight.

Some of it might have got out of hand - but sometimes that might be a purposeful decision...

It does certainly seem that way. Both sides are of course able to enact whatever penalties they want for anyone who has an interest in getting out of the war. The sad thing of it is, that both sides needlessly keep people stuck in a war that they would otherwise be done with.

Those people who have decided (on either side) that they are unable/unwilling to agree to other side's terms... they continue fighting. I am old-fashioned, so I was under the impression that the idea in a war was to win at all costs. Somewhere along the line, it turned into humiliate/punish at all costs and make the other side an enemy for life. (or tenure in the game) To bad, but that is what we seem to've come to.

If you can get people to stop fighting against you, and you won't let them... (without them surrendering and agreeing to harsh demands) Well, it makes people wonder how bad you really want to win this war. Quite frankly, it doesn't seem to me that either side is particularly interested in winning the war, but rather both sides are interested in punishing the other side.

I can say that for a person on the outside of it, I am not particularly impressed with either side, and not especially interested in joining either side, be-that during or after the war. (again due to the behavior of both sides in relation to this war)

Wolf359's last line there seems all to true...

SVaRuN wrote:Really nice of you Piano
The problem here is: that while some of the folks that were on fuall list may be innocent and have left for XYZ reasons, cause of fuall making the first strike we know for sure that at least some ppl have left for tactical reasons (not to be involved in the conflict) so its the problem of punishing no one or all of them for couple of good guys or couple of bad guys...


Its debateable, perhaps we could treat them seperately and just request surrender from them...


As for the TLE part I am mostly leaving it up to the purple one...
The history is the biggest pain in the backside here...cause every time I was nice there were ppl using it against me...
Blue

It really is to bad that you feel that you've been taken advantage of. There are so many good people in this game, and it is ruined by a few who are mean, rude, and/or take advantage of another's kindness. Newsflash for some, but there are good/honest people on both sides of this war. Chances are in far greater numbers than their bad/dishonest counterparts. (who again are on both sides in this war) They just aren't as vocal, or as noticeable. It is a shame, it really is. For all of the honest people who are part of the war and who are to good natured to say anything, I think both sides are wrong.

It is amusing if you think about it too. The server sees both sides as stubborn. There isn't even a "good-guy" side like there normally is. Both sides have taken the stance of punishing the other side for leaving. (of course you can say that one side or the other is really worse and "our side" isn't as bad as "them" but really when you get right down to it, since when did "more-wrong" enter the equation? You may also say "they started it." Get a grip people! Both sides were well aware that at absolute best the war would wait until the NAPs expired. Both sides were prepared, or at least knew that they would be wise to prepare.

Arguing who started it is pretty shallow at this point. A year from now when people talk about this, no one is going to say, "Yeah, but they started it, so that made their tribute/reparations fair." All people will remember is who fought, and who won, and who made a good or bad LASTING impression on the population. Going back to the long-term scenario, who will be remembered for what???

It is so silly to make someone continue to fight YOU when they don't want to anymore. (for instance: more people quit fighting because one side drops their tribute/reparation, and that side has a clear advantage as people are now able to "honorably" leave the war without being bribed, or hunted... or nothing changes, both sides make people stay and neither side ever wins and no-one gets out of the vicious cycle) If more long-term thought was put into it, both sides would care about what the server as a whole would be thinking of this long-term. People that aren't on either side of this war, who are watching who may've joined one side or the other at some point in the future are taught that both sides are unforgiving and stubborn. Not exactly the traits you want to show to potential new recruits, let alone the entire server.

I'm of the opinion that both sides should let people who don't want to fight anymore(w/out harsh agreements/tributes/reparations) just be done. Before anyone gets upset or reads to much into what I've said, this is just my opinion which I felt like sharing with whoever was patient enough to read it. I won't argue with anyone about it. I respect the views and understand the reasoning of why both sides have what they do. I just didn't feel that anyone had articulately stated what I felt like saying, ergo my post.

But I digress, to each his own I suppose...

Tekki wrote:

Robe wrote:The official lists were completed before the war, not long after FUALL conducted covert reports on our members (which in the past has been considered to be an act of war by many alliances).

The lists were checked and rechecked and found to be correct.
There is always chance of human error but we think we have them right.

Which is why TJP hit some people who weren't in the war and are now paying reparation to them for wrongful hits. So they weren't that correct.

I still find the idea of anything more than a token payment abhorrent, especially given the list of people who can accept. Some of them at least aren't exactly what you'd call reasonable.

k.