debate on weather sodium fluoride has any benefits

[Kit-Fox]

And the meat you eat and the vegatables have had all kind of chemicals sprayed onto them as well.

This can go round&round but the thing is you do have a choice in teh UK to avoid flouride in your water, there is no legal restiction on you purifying your own water (or having the equipment to do so) neither does bottled water have any legal requirement to have flouride added into it, so if your that worried over it then use your brain and choose to avoid tap water.

Otherwise dont whine like a cry baby and throw the baby out with the bathwater. You have a choice, some choose the benefit of having water piped into their homes and accept the flouride will be added others like yourself can choose to not have water piped to your homes and use other sources.

[[KMA]Avenger]

why so hostile?

did i say i was peed because i didn't know there was such a thing as bottled water or that they have invented such a thing as a filter?

the bottom line is this...fluoride is NOT good for you, and even bathing in fluoridated water is extremely harmful. because of the doses used, its not harmful taken in very small doses, the problem comes from being exposed to it on a daily basis that it accumulates in the body and that's when it becomes harmful.
all you have to do is look at pictures of the surrounding arrears of the factory's that produce fluoride and see the environmental damage this stuff causes to see that this stuff shouldn't be in water, toothpaste or anything else people ingest...especially exposing babies to this toxin!

just because your not bothered if governments and company's are poisoning you doesn't mean others don't want to know about it.

and a bit less hostility wouldn't go amiss

[Kit-Fox]

The hostility is because you are trying to decde for other people what should or shouldnt happen to them, which is just as bad as the governments failure to make a solid decision on it (hence its still in 'trial' in the UK)

There are choices, theres no need to go on about how its some plot to poison us all, that just as bad as the people who convice their children that kiddie filddlers & terrorists hang out on every street corner.

So its a poison, guess what so it just pure h2o if your stupid with it, come to think of it pure o2 could be considered poisonous as well. I know we all wrap each other in cotton wool & make sure we all have full biological containment suits on to protect us from everything, oh wait we'd all suffocate or starve to death in a very short time.

[[KMA]Avenger]

first of all, if you have any common sense or sense of logic, you will realize that i cannot force anything on anyone from behind a monitor!

2ndly, if you don't want to be part of a discussion you can leave anytime you wish, no one is forcing you to stay.

3rd, we are not discussing other things that are harmful to you, and we are not discussing if anyone would be so stupid as to drink to much water...and yes, i do know drinking to much H2O is not good for you

4th, i am not forcing my views/opinions on anyone, all i'm doing is trying to raise awareness.

5, less of the hostility please.

[TheWay]

okay lol this always interesting when issues get heated in a way its good it normally allows us to see real arguments and how cool one can stay under real pressure.

I think it only appropriate in this case to ask if you have a personal stake in this discussion or is there something about this discussion that touches a cord in you.

From what I can tell the issue seems to be the conspiracy edge to some of this discussion and in that I sympathize as I don’t really connect well with that type of thinking. However I must point out two things

1. Some of the greatest thinkers in the world would have been considered quite crazy when they suggested that which they suggested.

2. It is never successful strategy to become emotional and attack a conspiracist because it honestly just fuels their fire. Think about it. Plus theytend to be more informed and just as intellegent an dmany times more intellegent then the common debater

[[KMA]Avenger]

well, i don't class myself as an "intellectual" by any ones standard (well maybe more of an intellectual than a wrestling fan ), my grammar use and argument construction stands as testament to that, but i do consider myself better informed than the average person.

i don't have a personal stake other than trying to get people to see for themselves just how wrong on every level this world is....

wars, famine, disease, poverty, homelessness, corruption, greed, crime, totally ineffective government and our down right ignorance of other peoples feelings and the way we treat each other, this world is wrong and most if not all of those problems is because we are taken from an early age, put into an educational system and teaches our children to grow up perpetuating a system which is completely ineffectual in dealing with the above issues...just so long as we have our latest xbox and big screen TV the world is fine in the majority of peoples eyes!

it is well past time to do away with this corrupt world wide system and replace it with a better one which is well in our ability to do so.

raising awareness is my only agenda.

P.S.

the only thing that really gets to me, is peoples apathy and willingness to laugh without even trying to understand or look for themselves.

[TheWay]

Yes, apathy can be an annoying thing but be careful because apathy is only thing that olds any democracy together lol. It is the Tyranny of the masses that as many historians and political experts have pointed out could be and in some cases is the downfall of society.

People in general are like sheep, an animal that would run off a cliff in a herd of other sheep that were running of a cliff. People follow as niche says the ubber man (Aka superman), the person with the strength of will to suppress others. I don’t mind people’s general apathy I prefer it unless they be educated in critical thinking and taught how to choose and interpret information for themselves. We have most certainly become nations of free people with enslaved minds not unlike the writings of Franz Kafka who wrote that in the face of the world’s oppression he should just lie down and die like a dog.

In all I suggest that people not just attend universities but rather they make life a study, that a goal of life be to increase one’s own understanding day by day. Mark Twain said it best when he said, "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."

I love this area of the forum, its like a walk through thoughts

[[KMA]Avenger]

"a walk threw peoples thoughts", i like that

what most people are apathetic to is understanding just why things are the way they are, and they maintain the false belief things will get better with time or if we hand the professional politician enough power to get the job done when history has taught us that neither time nor handing over our freedoms and giving the government all the power it asks for, gets anything done...

the bottom line is this, i know of no single government on the face of this planet that has any interest in serving the public good and yet, we busy ourselves with our daily concerns, raise our children (i'm a dad of 3 boys so i do have some knowledge of raising kids) to think as we do and thereby maintaining the status quo, that is simply not good enough!

i just cant understand peoples thinking, i really cant...why does the average person not question their government when prices go up or when additives are placed in our food and water?!
i just don't understand how people can just surrender all trust to some rich fart who couldn't careless about the harm they do with their foreign policy or with the crap that's put in our water under the guise...it will help give you a nice shiny smile weather you want it or not!

the average person is asleep weather they know it or not!

[Kit-Fox]

sanitised in the interests of getting on with others

some people care and others dont (and the reasons on each side are as many and varied as you'd care to cosider), if you care well you have a choice. Make it and stop trying to preach about how asleep and stupid the rest of us are. In other words try getting of the high horse and living in the rest of the world

EDIT: Oh and btw as for your there is no evidence that flouridating the water increases oral health then I suggest you take a look at the south staffs area stats & compared them to the immediate surrounding areas (all of which arent flouridated) and you will find that south staffs has a higher oral health level. And no there isnt really any difference in the provision of oral health care between say noth & south staffs so its not that either just to head you off at the pass as it were

[[KMA]Avenger]

ok, lets cut away all the crap and really break it down to the basics...

is Florine of ANY kind good for ANYTHING organic...the answer is no it is not, that's fact!

why is it fact, if it was good for you or your teeth then company's that make rat poison wouldn't be able to use it...unless their intention was to give rats a nice bright smile before they bite someone!

make sense to you?

if it has no beneficial aspects to it, then why are they so keen to shove it down our throats???

and just for your information, i said "people are sleeping weather they know it or not" as a general term and in no way did i say you or anyone else was "stupid" or point fingers at anyone on these boards!
so please don't try and force words i've never said-down my throat. i don't beat around the bush, life's to short to go threw life in that way, if i want to call you stupid i will say it outright so there's no misunderstanding.
so do me a favour next time and chose your words more carefully, and less of the hostility or you'll find yourself talking to the wind!



how open are you?

i mean, what if you was to see a seminar by a doctor, tell you its no good, would you at least try to see if this doctor knows what he's talking about or just happily carry on in blissful ignorance?
be honest, i wont take offense.

[Kit-Fox]

And yet more bogeymen, quit with the rats already, you've said it multiple times its getting kinda old.

Any yet you still havent come up with why there is such a vast difference between the very good oral health of the south staffs area (which does have a flouridated water supply) and the bad/low oral health in comparison of te immediate surroudning areas like the north staffs area. No really i'd love to hear, but somehow you've managed to keep avoiding it so lets pin it down shall we?

[[KMA]Avenger]

i wouldn't accept that as any kind of proof unless you switched the inhabitants of both those areas and see if the upper staffs residents oral health improved while living in the fluoridated area and on top of that, a double blind study over a year long period is undertaken to see just who is right and who is wrong.

and so what if i go on about rats, its true, isn't it?

now how about you answer my question from above???

just how open are you?

[Kit-Fox]

been true or not isnt the issue, its just a annoying emotional argument when repeated almost every post you make. Oh and btw most animals like rats/mice/rabbits etc (and i'm not entirely sure about rats but here goes anyways) their teeth continually grow which would make them different to our own which dont. While you could argue that the composition is similar (i suspect it is) that fact they grow continually means that you cant really compare them ( mostly as the enamel (or other such protective covering)on the outside wont be anywhere near as hardened i would think, due to the constant growing )

IF the doctor could provide conclusive well researched evidence that we were all been killed off much faster with it than without it (which we arent really, see earlier posts) then it would be something to consider. But then I dont see you arguing over the multiple other chemicals we all get dosed with simply by been alive. Yeah so what they will all kill us big whoop, it aint gonna change and if it wasnt them then it would simply be something else so its not really worth worrying about so much especially as you can avoid this one if you want too whereas you cant avoid UV rays / X-rays & gamma rays from sunlight

EDIT: as for the question 'how open are you?' well that makes no sense, what do you mean by open? If its open to ideas and new information, quite open but i'm not open to paranoid delusions & conspiracy theories

[[KMA]Avenger]

And you actually said

the average person is asleep weather they know it or not!

implying the average person it too stupid to realise whats going on. Congratulations on insulting and offending rather a lot of people in one sentence. I appluad you I havent seen such power since tony blair was in power (or the last time wacky jaquici / jeff hoom spoke, take your pick of who you hate the most)

ok, we seem to have differing opinions on the definition of the word "asleep", your definition is that i have called you and everyone else who thinks like you, "stupid", that is simply not the case!
i'll make it simple to eliminate this misunderstanding once and for all...

when i use the word "asleep" i am implying that you (or someone else) is unaware of something, NOT that you are "stupid", if i wanted to call you "stupid" (as i have previously stated) i would have called you "stupid", i have not used the word "stupid" in any of my posts, if i have please point it out to me and i will edit the post because its never my intention to call people "stupid", i call our leaders "stupid" but not a fellow member of this community, i always do my best to post with respect, calling you "stupid" would make me a hypocrite...

are we on the same page or?





this is what i mean by open:

how open are you?

i mean, what if you was to see a seminar by a doctor, tell you its no good, would you at least try to see if this doctor knows what he's talking about or just happily carry on in blissful ignorance?
be honest, i wont take offense.

this is the link to the seminar:
http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q ... aq=-1&oq=#

if you watch it and at least give it a chance then cool. if you don't then, that's cool as well.

[Kit-Fox]

OK misunderstanding resolved over the asleep thing, will edit mine to remove the comments over it. But you should be aware a lot fo people will interpret such comments in the same way I did, just for future ref