should the state of Israel be allowed to exist...

[[KMA]Avenger]

its not my intention to drive anyone away who doesn't share my point of view!

its my intention to shed light on whats going on and for YOU to go and find out for YOURSELF, not for me to get caught up in finger pointing!

when you understand that the Rothschilds (and possibly THE richest banking family in the world) own 80% of israel, can you not put your ignorance to 1 side and look for yourself?

but hey, lets just go with the flow and kill the Palestinians and solve the problem that way...that should please Universe and co!

*me wonders if anyone has looked at the map*

[Thriller]

:? its not my intention to drive anyone away who doesn't share my point of view!

its my intention to shed light on whats going on and for YOU to go and find out for YOURSELF, not for me to get caught up in finger pointing!

when you understand that the Rothschilds (and possibly THE richest banking family in the world) own 80% of israel, can you not put your ignorance to 1 side and look for yourself?

but hey, lets just go with the flow and kill the Palestinians and solve the problem that way...that should please Universe and co!

*me wonders if anyone has looked at the map*

How does one own a country?
It not like it's publicly traded on the stock market?
Do you know how Rothschild made his money?

[[KMA]Avenger]

good to have you back, i mean that

i did say for "lack of a better word". to my shame, i'm sorry but my vocabulary isn't what it should be otherwise i would communicate my thoughts in a much more organized way

i do indeed know how they stole the worlds money...

question is, do you?

pm me please so we can stay on topic

edit:

the original family name for the Rothschilds was "Bauer".

[Kit-Fox]

Thriller I think KMA is refering to land ownership much like the UK royal family 'own' so much of the UK, they simply the registered land owners rather than any kind of executive force.

[[KMA]Avenger]

thanks KF, but to clarify, i was simply using the "owner" to infer they were the original inhabitants.

[Thriller]

Thriller I think KMA is refering to land ownership much like the UK royal family 'own' so much of the UK, they simply the registered land owners rather than any kind of executive force.

but do you believe they own 80% of the land.

[[KMA]Avenger]

yep.

i've come across that info from way to many independent sources for it to be just coincidence.

[Kit-Fox]

Thriller I think KMA is refering to land ownership much like the UK royal family 'own' so much of the UK, they simply the registered land owners rather than any kind of executive force.

but do you believe they own 80% of the land.

It is more than possible that one family could own so much of a small state, after all the royal family own something like 70-80% of the UK land.

It is possible, I dont know if its true or not though.

[Thriller]

Orly? (This is for avenger and kitfox)

do these monarchs just rent the land to the people that live there? or Does the population just live off of the other 20-30%

[Kit-Fox]

Orly? (This is for avenger and kitfox)

do these monarchs just rent the land to the people that live there? or Does the population just live off of the other 20-30%

Thriller in theh case of the UK the land is rented out long term to others (think contracts in the hundreds of years) that allow the renting parties to develop the land etc while giving the owner a cut of profits eventually made

[Thriller]

Orly? (This is for avenger and kitfox)

do these monarchs just rent the land to the people that live there? or Does the population just live off of the other 20-30%

Thriller in theh case of the UK the land is rented out long term to others (think contracts in the hundreds of years) that allow the renting parties to develop the land etc while giving the owner a cut of profits eventually made

Orly? In england you have a very spread out populous. If the monarchy holds 70% of your land and rents it out that would mean a large part of your population don;t really own their homes right?

[Kit-Fox]

I'm not really sure to be honest, I do recall a program that investigated it however and showed how much of the land was owned by the social elite (read: extended royal family) it was something like 70-80%.

They rent it out and the renters are allowed to do pretty much anything to it to develop it. A good example is London's Square Mile, all owned by one person, but developed by others.

You'd have to look it up to be honest but it is right, its p[ossible for one family to own X amount of land in a country, but that != owning X amount of the 'state'

The state/Crown in the UK actually owns all the land anyways (at least in theory, thanks to the norman invasion), except those parts it has gifted / sold to others.

EDIT: I also believe that the ownership of the actual properties dont change, ie if you own a building that was built while the developer was renting teh land, you still own it when the developer's contract runs out and the land ownership changes back.

[Tacet]

@KMA - you brought up the point of the Torah saying that the Jews shouldn't be in Israel. That point was shown to be invalid.

You brought up the fact that Palestinians were removed from the area to make place for the Jews, but you discard arguments that the same was done over all the world as too long ago. Yet the Jews were back in Palestine in numbers from about 1881. The largest return of Jews to the region was, not surprisingly, in WW2, when most countries turned Jewish refugees away.

During that time, the Arab community in the region was still larger than the Jewish one. The UN proposed a plan wherein the region would be divided into two countries, one Arab and one Jewish, with an international capital - Jerusalem. The Jews accepted the proposal, but the Arabs rejected it. Arab band then started attacking Jews in the region (December 1947). In May, 1948, the Jews declared independence.

Current situation in Israel:
Official languages: Hebrew and Arabic
Major religions: Jewish and Muslim

The only official discrimination that I could find is that Jewish citizens have compulsory military service, while it is voluntary for Arab citizens.

As for the current displacement of Arab citizens - I've found very little proof of that. Yes, there are a lot of references to that, most citing a book of Ilan Pappe. Interesting tidbit about Pappe: he's supporting a thesis by Katz that's telling about an Israeli massacre of Palestinians in Tantura in 1948. The massacre is not confirmed by either Israeli nor by Palestinian historians. In fact, Katz later retracted his allegations, yet Pappe still supports it. A review paper by Frantzman calls Pappe's book about the ethnic cleansing "a cynical exercise in manipulating evidence to fit an implausible thesis."

@KMA - I agree with Universe and Thriller. You're taking evidence that supports your argument from the internet, without bothering to find out the validity of that evidence. The danger with the internet is that there is no clear distinction between minority and majority voices. Sometimes, because of the sensational news value of the minority viewpoint, that viewpoint gets quoted and shown across the net, until some people actually believes it.

Finally, if you want to argue a historical issue (as your subject suggests), your arguments should reflect on historical decisions, not on current policy. Study the history before making arguments that are totally out of context. Go read a bit more.

Finally - what on earth has the Rothschilds' land property in Israel to do with the current debate!? I honestly can't see what that has to do with whether Israel should exist or not.

[Osi]

Avenger, this is an unofficial warning, I'm sick of seeing your arguments cave because you have no actual facts, and only opinions. Start getting sources like Tacet suggested or start to reflect on how short your time here will be if you continue to argue this way. I've had incessant annoyances to this section banned in the past.

[[KMA]Avenger]

*shakes head that people don't take what i say and go look for themselves and all they want is proof from me, as well as spout the crap they learned at school and from the tv*

guys, i had to find out the hard way (and not just from 1 source) and so should you because you wont believe me 1 way or the other if i give you the proof.

is that you LQ?

if so you can go ahead and ban me because i'm sick of you to...i really don't give a flying 1 to be honest!!!

btw LQ, who ever made you MOD on these boards needs there head looked at because you are without doubt the worst mod this forum has ever seen and i've seen em come and go!