StarGateWars Forums

[KMA]Avenger wrote:you can have a look here for reference concerning giants.
http://www.herebegames.com/StarGateWars ... 48&start=0

All I see there are pictures of unusually tall people. I assumed by Giants you meant like LoTR/Harry Potter? As far as I'm aware no bones have been found of humanoids significantly over the height of the world's largest man.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:as for our ancestors building the ancient sites, i don't doubt that human hands built these wondrous structures, the only thing i doubt concerning them is where the knowledge came from given that our ancestors themselves said the knowledge came from "The Gods" (Aliens).

if you look at the official line, the Egyptians walked out of the desert and within a short span of time mastered building magnificent monuments we cant replicate today (regardless of what the experts say), astrology and high levels of mathematics and a whole host of other sciences and skills...

does this sound plausible to you?

So, because someone has an idea, and naturally assigns that to the Gods (a perfectly rational process, ie: the notion of divine inspiration), it automatically means Aliens? Why would aliens give our ancestors the ability to make pyramids, and then bugger off? Who says we can't replicate the pyramids today? You? If we don't believe experts in mechanical engineering and Egyptology, why should we believe you?

[KMA]Avenger wrote:you can have a look here for reference concerning giants.

http://www.herebegames.com/StarGateWars ... 48&start=0



as for our ancestors building the ancient sites, i don't doubt that human hands built these wondrous structures, the only thing i doubt concerning them is where the knowledge came from given that our ancestors themselves said the knowledge came from "The Gods" (Aliens).

Well.. where else would you say you got your knowledge from.
Heck, if a d00d came to you and said "hey n00b, I found a way to lob stones on other stones and built a big tower/mountain/palace doing so". You wouldn't start lobbing stones on other stones and build pyramids.
Except when the guy becomes a priest and tells you he got his idea from a "god" and that it is "holy destiny" to build them that way. And since everyone sees the stars, why not build our stone mountains as if they're stars. Like, we build one, and oh heck, if we say that is that big star, let's build another one there and say it is that other big star. And so on.

Nothing to it.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:if you look at the official line, the Egyptians walked out of the desert and within a short span of time mastered building magnificent monuments we cant replicate today (regardless of what the experts say), astrology and high levels of mathematics and a whole host of other sciences and skills...

does this sound plausible to you?

Yes. You're twisting the 'official line' and add your own qualification to it, saying it is 1. "a short time" (according to who? you?) and 2. "mastered" building .. sorry, but most of what they built is ruins now. So no. Aside from the fact that they didn't just get up and built the Pyramid of Cheops, at least not until after they built a load of other small pyramids, really crappy and ugly ones at that. Just look at Sakkara. It sucks.
High levels of mathematics? Egyptians could not calculate around 0, had no clue about imaginary numbers, and all they really could do that was somewhat advanced was lob one stone above the other. If you can do that, you can build a pyramid. Heck, they carved out the chambers etc afterwards, just because they couldn't figure out a way to build them without creating a fake mountain (pyramid) and dig some caves in them to store dead guys in. The bigger the mountain, the bigger the rep. It all boils down to how long your guys can lob stones on other stones without dieing.

xD We can't build pyramids or giant magnificent monuments today? ROFL
Why would we. They have already been built. It would only be a testament to our lack of creativity if we just copied and pasted the Ancients, no matter how much fun lobbing stones on other stones may be for some people.




Stupid Repli. >_<

RepliMagni wrote:All I see there are pictures of unusually tall people. I assumed by Giants you meant like LoTR/Harry Potter? As far as I'm aware no bones have been found of humanoids significantly over the height of the world's largest man.

why is it i can find these things and you guys cant? could it be because you love to ridicule instead of look?

[spoiler]

Below: This photo of a ‘fossilized Irish giant’ was taken at a London rail depot, and appeared in the December 1895 issue of Strand Magazine. The giant was allegedly dug up by a Mr Dyer while prospecting for iron ore in County Antrim (Ireland). It was 12 ft 2 in (3.71 m) tall, weighed 2 tonnes, and had 6 toes on its right foot. After being exhibited in Dublin, it was brought to England and exhibited in Liverpool and Manchester at sixpence a head, ‘attracting scientific men as well as gaping sightseers’.10 After a legal dispute over ownership, nothing more appears to have been heard or seen of the exhibit.





1993 saw the publication of a scholarly and controversial 900-page work Forbidden Archeology, coauthored by Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson.1 It presents abundant evidence – in the form of stone tools, incised bones, and skeletal remains – suggesting that humans of the modern type existed in the Pliocene, the Miocene, and even in early Tertiary times, millions of years before our supposed apelike ancestors are thought to have appeared. Most of this evidence was discovered by reputable scientists in the 19th and early 20th centuries, before the modern truncated timescale of human evolution became firmly established. Cremo and Thompson write:

These discoveries are not well known, having been forgotten by science over the course of many decades or in many cases eliminated by a biased process of knowledge filtration. The result is that modern students of paleoanthropology are not in possession of the complete range of scientific evidence concerning human origins and antiquity. Rather most people, including professional scientists, are exposed to only a carefully edited selection of evidence supporting the currently accepted theory that protohuman hominids evolved from apelike predecessors in Africa during the Late Pliocene and Early Pleistocene, and that modern humans subsequently evolved from the protohuman hominids in the Late Pleistocene, in Africa or elsewhere.2[/spoiler]

RepliMagni wrote:So, because someone has an idea, and naturally assigns that to the Gods (a perfectly rational process, ie: the notion of divine inspiration), it automatically means Aliens? Why would aliens give our ancestors the ability to make pyramids, and then bugger off? Who says we can't replicate the pyramids today? You? If we don't believe experts in mechanical engineering and Egyptology, why should we believe you?

did i say i was the expert who said they cant build these things today? its the experts themselves who say they cant replicate the achievements of our ancestors.

the Sumerians themselves wrote down their history. everything that went on in their time was recorded on clay tablets and these clay tablets didn't come off the top shelf like we buy paper. clay tablets were expensive and took time to make so why would ancient peoples waste 10,000's of clay tablets recording fictional story's?

that makes no sense what so ever, and defies all logic.

also, the ancient Egyptians themselves state that their history alone stretches back over 35,000 years, are we going to call them liars and dismiss everything they say simply because their history does not fit neatly into our school books?





any chance we can get back to the topic of Tiamat?

Well lets not get too hasty, KMA is sort of right I suppose we cant build things like the pryamids todays (especially if you were to try a copy of the great pryamid)


Of course thats not because we dont know how too, or that we lack the skill but the sheer cost and all the health&safety that would be involved would bankrupt anyone who tried. That and you try finding enough raw stone resources within a reasonable distance of your chosen site to make such a momument.

Of course the eygptians didnt have to concern themselves about the deaths of slaves (it was one less mouth to feed & keep alive) they had plenty of stone available to them and didnt need to worry about the cost as essentially it was the 'state' building them & they just took what they needed with their army so the 'cost' as it were was nonexistant. As for skill well its not like the stone masons had anything else to do but practise ther craft all day long so I imagine they got quite good at it.

meh...who said the physical construction of the pyramids was carried out by slaves?

to be fair that's what i used to think as well until i saw a film by a man i detest called Zahi Hawass...the Secretary General of Egypt’s Supreme Council of Antiquities, whose more or less in total control of the Giza plateau. he showed conclusively that the pyramids were NOT built by slaves and it was in fact the Egyptians themselves who willingly built the pyramids under the guidance of the master masons.

All the lugging of the stones to the site would have been done by slaves

The very basic shaping of the stones would have been done by slaves at the quarries

The basic layout moving the stones into initial positions would have been carried out by slaves

Then the stone masons etc etc would have come in and shaped to perfection and moved the stones into the exact spots they would need to be in.


Its well known the egyptian empire used slaves, please for the love of god dont try to say they didnt.

ZOMG. Stop going off topic with the whole Giants deal. They lost their game.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:did i say i was the expert who said they cant build these things today? its the experts themselves who say they cant replicate the achievements of our ancestors.

Says more about the quality and selfawareness of the experts..
And sure. Not a single expert could build a pyramid by themselves. No. No one can. Not even ancient Egyptians.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:the Sumerians themselves wrote down their history. everything that went on in their time was recorded on clay tablets and these clay tablets didn't come off the top shelf like we buy paper. clay tablets were expensive and took time to make so why would ancient peoples waste 10,000's of clay tablets recording fictional story's?

that makes no sense what so ever, and defies all logic.

It's called religion.. and no, it doesn't defy logic.
To control your people, you will make up ANY story you need, no matter the cost.

But to come back at your 'these clay tablets were expensive', no, they were not. They were made of a simple frame which was filled with mud. The mud slightly dried, and voilá, tablet is made. No need for anything but a muddy river and the sun (and a simple frame). As for the "waste of 10,000s of clay tablets", the only tablets we have are *ACCIDENTALLY* saved tablets, which got stuck in some places, or burnt in fires (which works like an oven, preserving them as solid tablets). All tablets were eventually meant to be made wet again (all you need is water) and then re-used as they were no longer relevant. Much more environmentally friendly.. xD Anyway, that about the environment is a joke.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:also, the ancient Egyptians themselves state that their history alone stretches back over 35,000 years, are we going to call them liars and dismiss everything they say simply because their history does not fit neatly into our school books?

Yes, we are going to call them liars, but not for the simplistic reasons you give.
They are 'liars' because their timeline stretches beyond what we can verify. From absurdity, all claims are valid, leading to the situation where I could say that "before I was born I was God in Heaven". Heck, no one can verify it. Would you believe it? (It's true btw.) If that lie is perpetuated because I wrote it on the wall of a giant stone mountain, and in 10,000 years someone finds that wall as one of the few remaining things of our time.. do you think people in 10,000 years will believe I was God in Heaven before I was born? Or do you think they'll have some more common sense and reject my unverifiable account of my pre-history? (Because a hiëroglyph wall is pre-history. It's not writing. Sorry Egypt, you suck. Shoulda written alphabet-ish characters.)

Although, children are stupid. They cannot handle various thoughts and find the truth hidden in it. So either you tell them the truth (which would be stupid, as it is ugly) or you tell them stories that will interest them and teach them the skills they need for later in life. While it's interesting to see how they would handle it, it's immoral to fill them with so many things that their heads will explode.
Children are stupid.
Adults are stupid.
It's the genes.
The human race as a whole is stupid. Ah, but my stories of eradication are evil. We rather focus on how we are so stupid, we don't even believe our entire base of knowledge is based on Alien technology.




And rofl @ the infighting. Should get your story straight, you two. xD
Really, you think it's relevant whether anyone dies while building a pyramid? The thing (pyramid) is useless, and so is the slave/Egyptian/modern person building it. The world is not less because that person died, just as it isn't less because we don't have a desparate need to build pyramids.
It's just like that Dam in the USA. Built because people needed work, not because it was all that beneficial.

Hey.. maybe it is a good solution to the economic stuff going on. Build a pyramid. By hand. Lob some stones. Why not.

i never said there weren't any slaves in Egypt, but Hawass himself said that no evidence exists anywhere on or near the plateau of slaves ever having been employed in the plateau's construction, and in fact he himself over saw the excavation of the granary's and baking houses found nearby and none of these had the capacity to feed the amount of people said by modern day historians to have been employed in building the pyramids.

i can only tell you what the experts themselves tell us, so please don't shoot the messenger

@uni, i'll get back to you tomorrow, i've had enough for 1 day lol

Universe wrote:Although, children are stupid. They cannot handle various thoughts and find the truth hidden in it. So either you tell them the truth (which would be stupid, as it is ugly) or you tell them stories that will interest them and teach them the skills they need for later in life. While it's interesting to see how they would handle it, it's immoral to fill them with so many things that their heads will explode.
Children are stupid.
Adults are stupid.
It's the genes.
The human race as a whole is stupid. Ah, but my stories of eradication are evil. We rather focus on how we are so stupid, we don't even believe our entire base of knowledge is based on Alien technology.

What is being stupid and not being stupid? Stupidity has many definitions (regarding your own being, you will limit it for your own "interests"), what makes one vision/definition of stupidity better than others'?
Unless a superior entity were to tell us who is stupid and who isn't, we can only -sadly- assume. Yes, I do assume who is stupid sometimes, but I wouldn't go as far as saying everyone is. Because then, what is being not stupid? Why would we, humans, if meant to be stupid, know what not being stupid is (or know we are stupid, if we were?)? If we are stupid, we would (and should) be wrong, and since noone yet from another world (assuming they wouldn't be stupid either), told us what are limits of stupidity, and how far humanity is stupid, as a result we can't say humanity is stupid as a whole. Because then it turns out into self vision of what has to be done, and nothing tells that what we think that should be done, is to be done.
Subjectivity goes with qualifying of stupidity. Humanity isn't stupid, humanity is just selfish and self interested.

As for fantastic stories from present and past, well, it's about believing it or not! Being a Fox Mulder or not. Only thing we can do to prove a story is true, is by trying to find proves. Atlantis, this story of a past other planet, Goa'ulds being builders of pyramids, humans being infact coming from another galaxy and existing for much longer...might be wrong, might be true, and ulness we can travel back in past, we'll probably never really know!

First part of my post was bit useless, but well, from time to time I like to go into such stuff!

[KMA]Avenger wrote:
i can only tell you what the experts themselves tell us, so please don't shoot the messenger

ha sorry man but you pick and choose which experts to belive on one hand you discredit experts as norrow minded and trying to protect there own backsides (tbh quite true from a lot of stuff they teach me i ask a logical question about a hole in the theroy they tell me to stop being so stupid) then you say you can only tell what experts tell you

as far as basic study of archeology and science goes, its hard to refute an expert when he finds a group of small baking houses or homes...

to try and explain it better, if an expert digs up some bones never seen before and spends years piecing them together and then says, we have found that animals called Dinosaurs once roamed the earth, the bones themselves would be extremely convincing evidence.
by the same token, when you have experts mistranslating old scriptures dismissing others as fairy tales without even a second thought, then we, like the experts have a right to pick and choose which expert is correct based on what we know of that expert and his interests, whether they be keeping the status quo or advancing knowledge.

ask any Christian of strong faith if they have any doubts about the bibles truthfulness and you will be VERY hard pressed to convince them its a fairy tale. by the same token, people read in the bible that Giants walked the earth in those days and dismiss that as fairy tales when the bones have been found and THOUSANDS of ancient records also confirm this, and your labeled as a dreamer.


back on the topic of Tiamat:

the Sumerians (as well as MANY other ancient peoples from all over the globe) wrote down that a great star fell from the heavens wreaking havoc and devastation with animals running all about on fire, and that in a single day the constellations were thrown in to turmoil and that the constellations settled into new positions.
this to me says that either a planet exploded (for whatever reason), or an asteroid/meteor/comet hit the earth which caused a pole shift.

i think the Sumerians are quoted the most even tho other ancient writings say the same things because the Sumerian is the oldest known civilization, even tho ALL the ancient civilizations say that their civilizations are always based on far older civilizations and those that came before them where far more advanced...


which brings me to this question, lets forget everything we are discussing for a moment and ask a question, if some catastrophe were to befall all mankind and we all died out, how long would it be before not a single trace of our existence would remain?

i've seen much evidence from both sides ofg the camp with regards to a pole shift and there is VERY strong evidence to support the theory while the opposing camp (opposing camp as in the traditional or established schooling) is not so much opposed to idea.
evidence such as mammoths flash frozen still chewing on whatever was in their mouths as well as tropical vegetation found under the ice in Antarctica, proof enough?

as for the disaster...lets say, a new plague hits all mankind with no chance of a cure and we're all dead within 2 days. all mankind is wiped out leaving all we have built, created and written intact...

how long before it all wastes away to dust?

[spoiler]

[KMA]Avenger wrote:i've seen much evidence from both sides ofg the camp with regards to a pole shift and there is VERY strong evidence to support the theory while the opposing camp (opposing camp as in the traditional or established schooling) is not so much opposed to idea.
evidence such as mammoths flash frozen still chewing on whatever was in their mouths as well as tropical vegetation found under the ice in Antarctica, proof enough?

[/spoiler]



i edited my last post (after i forgot to include a rather important chunk ) sorry, i wasnt quick enough to post it before you posted lol

EDIT:

i've run a very basic search on polar shift (otherwise known as Earth Crust Displacement) and found this:

http://www.geocities.com/athens/troy/63 ... all053.htm

i've also run a very quick and basic search on flash frozen mammoths and tropical fauna found under the Antarctic ice and found this:

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/BarbieroF1.php

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread58194/pg

Its actually very easy to explain away flash frozen remains, as it wouldnt actually take much to do it. For a very good example that is within the realms of possibility you should look at how 'The Day after Tomorrow' film does it, such a weather system although unlikely as far as we known isnt impossible and could have happened before.

Remeber all this junk about climate change is just that, junk the earth still has a lot of warming up to before its out of the last 'Ice Age' and then the cycle will carry on and instead of warming it will cool again. Its possible that once a certain temperature is reached in the cooling cycle that extreme patterns of weather emerge that could flash freeze animals.

well, i for one have never bought into all this earth warming crud, we only have to look at the UK's recent cold spells to see how flawed that notion is, that's not to say we should all go about merrily polluting, just means they should stop lying about it.

as for the day after tomorrow scenario, can you see an animal standing still threw such a storm untill the eye of the storm passes over it?

i know i cant

this is a great read

http://www.geocities.com/athens/troy/63 ... all053.htm