StarGateWars Forums

bebita wrote:yeah
he cares about his reputation polarising me
and as far i remember mr sleepy u acused fearless of cheating for less that i find at hippyfool .........

i never accused him of cheating.. i accused him of feeding. There is a very big difference

Shadow_Dragon wrote:Isnt this just an issue about feeding?
I heard that/read the accusations and as far as feeding goes you have clearly said that you received naq, the question is simple then is that cheating or using naq (freely given) by an alliance member?

Also I wouldnt like to see you leave the game because of these accusations, caught red handed for feeding is naughty Hippy lol
I havent seen any evidence to say that you have used multi's or scripts as that would be Very bad Hippy lmao

If you understand apart from my silly comments, it doesnt make you bad for being a team player, cheating does..
and until I see evidence to contradict whats been said you are just a player that used a feeder...

Scott is right on my line of thinking, the real issue here is the issue of Feeding and from who\what and is it inline with what we have all semi-hashed out as ethical feeding (between Friends, Allies, Alliance mates who are active) or is it unethical Feeding (from inactives or multi accounts). Since I have seen no proof of it being from a Multi account (one that Hippy would have ability to login and control) then it boils down to was the Feeding from a mostly Inactive account??

Why is that so important to me?? Because it was on this point that I was so roundly scolded for last Era. And who was the force that took on the Mantle of "Feeding Police" it was Hippy's TCC Alliance and S1eepy who spearheaded that effort of ethics and morality.

OK, so none of us are perfect, and I don't expect perfection, BUT, I do need my moral compasses to guide me as to the Ethics and moral strategies and tactics that we are supposed to somewhat adhere to when playing these games. Simply because the rules can't cover all situations, and we have public Forums, and the Forums are where we get the grey area guidance, and the guidance should mostly come from the long standing most experienced players, the legends, like S1eepy, and Hippyfool, and my CO - Legendary DevilDog.

That is why I felt gut shot over this issue. If the issue is grey area Feeding, and I was scolded for grey area Feeding last Era (assisting Seijuro Hiko, all hashed after the end of last Era in the Forums), then by default I hold in high regards those who would scold and guide me!!

So, my dissapointment is only that Hippy may or may not have partaken in the same grey area Feeding tactics that his Alliance beat me over the ethical brow with just a short time back!! How should I feel now? Confused, betrayed, at least a little of both, but maybe neither at this point, Hippy is still just a talented legendary player with experienced friends and a largely long time successful (and legendary) Alliance full of similarly talented players.

At this point all I can really accuss him of is being a much better player than I, with much stronger friends and allies, who may or may not have decided to adapt to the game's changing playing field, and, this is my favorite part, is using the same tactics that I touted in my arguements on my behalf/defense a few months back that Quantum is still a game where if the right group of active friends and allies (whether in an Alliance or not) decide to work together (giving NAQ to other players - allies or just friends) that they can be leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. Yes, leaps far enough to even trigger bebita's honed and precise sensibility of honesty and fairplay... (Sorry bebita, but I was one of the ones coming to the Pooh Corner's defense! HAHA, but your instincts are usually good and are always needed to help police our community so dont stop doing what you do and telling us your observations! HAHA).

So I continue my defense that Hippy can play how he sees fit, if he wants to push the ethical boundaries, then hopefully he will understand that many, especially me, will be dissapointed though, because he is, and should be, one of our moral compasses!!
(Even the Chief of the Feeder Police can have a bad day... HAHA)

Wow wow wow, and just wow.

So many things to say, where to start?

Affirmation, you say Hippy is a legendary player you look up to. How do you know his past successes are based on skill and not on the feeding he has just owned up to.

For ALL the people still saying feeding is legal - what the heck is wrong with you? The only thing I can assume is that you are doing it too. Why else would you not mind that other people are getting free naq, and unfairly??

@sleepy - I have not thrown accusations at anyone, I simply commented on my observation of many accounts that do not compete, and yet they build UP, go on PPT, and I wonder where that naq goes. I find that suspicious behaviour, which I stated, and once again I'll admit I have no conclusive evidence of whats going on, but it simply bugs me.

Of course In Envy's next post he jumps in and says Nitro is fine and legitimate, and in the very next breath says that he just 'logs in to feed'. Words fail me.

What is wrong with you all? This is not a competition of skill and strategy. Its a cheating free-for-all. I've already said I dont plan on playing again if the the perspective on feeding doesnt change, but thats not the point I want to make here... I'm starting think I'll simply give up on Quantum because I'm starting to think the rest of you are completely nuts. I dont even know that we're talking the same language anymore.

FEEDING IS NOT OK!

@Hippy - You question my post about 'no tactics or strategy' and then point out you dont have unlimited naq... just nearly the same as everyone else... like thats ok? You still got it unfairly! Just because you're not purposely zooming ahead doesnt make it ok. It means you can get other advantages like saving up AT's, or using market turns on extra UU's. And of course theres always the knowledge you can simply get a bunch more naq if your lead is threatened. Everything I read from you makes me respect you less and less. Frankly I think you should be stripped of your award, and have your accounts on all other servers investigated for evidence of cheating too. The very fact you made this poll shows you know you did something wrong. If you had any honour at all you'd accept it and bow out, instead you want to try to justify it to the feeding masses.

Some people argue that 'he isnt using multis'. Well what is a multi exactly? Its a secondary account used by a player to further his own primary account. Getting a friend to log in and do it is just multi'ing by proxy. The secondary account is performing the same function, it just isnt controlled by the same person.

Heres something to think about. Players 1 and 2 are friends. They both play from 2 locations. Player 1 plays at home and at university. He plays his main account at home, he sets up a few accounts at university and uses them to feed player 2. Player 2 plays at home and at work. He plays his main account at home, and sets up a few accounts at work to feed player 1. Their schedules or time zones overlap to allow player 1 to be at home when player 2 is at work, and vice versa. Cant really be traced easily as multi'ing, due to the seperate locations, and so they're pretty much able to get away with it.

There are countless ways this can be done, and from I'm reading here it seems to me that Hippy cares more about covering his tracks and acting like he's done no wrong (frighteningly the rest of you seem to agree), rather than doing the decent and moral thing and owning up to his schemes.

If the rest of you want to continue playing and losing to players with access to free resources, go ahead. Count me out. Its a waste of time, and an exercise in stupidity.

Alternatively, lets call quantum what it is. The endless feeding server. 1st place goes to the person who can click the attack button the most times in 3 months. How exciting.

As much as we all hate feeding deep in our hearts, we can't do anything against it this era. There were players that overabused it and eventually got a nice ban, but there is nothing we can do about players that are doing it less obviously. I'm sure we still have some people with multis too.

Anyway it's too late to do anything, we could just call this the era of feeders and stop ranting about it on the forums.

Let's just hope the upcoming updates will really bring us the desired ability to keep feeding under controll.

Sorrow wrote:
Let's just hope the upcoming updates will really bring us the desired ability to keep feeding under controll.

Hear Hear

I think that now its been brought to the communities attention it will end, so where is the point in all this mud slinging? it will affect the rankings, but only slightly, as to Hippy winning.. well that im fairly certain will not happen'

Yes he used a feeder and has been man enough to admit his guilt! so he will stop now and try as he might try gain a good rank!

Im no more happy about it that the next player, but done is done so lets just play this last week and few days (not sure how many) and wait for the changes to take effect next wave, we will look back and laugh im sure.

This has to have been one of the worst era's I have played, not because Jason made some rash of foolish game choices ( I can mention a few there..remember that gambling wave urgh!) but with all the cheating and players watching your every move to accuse you rightly or wrongly of being a multi or feeder...
I just hope that when Jason introduces these new updates that there are not too many bugs, none would be great but well we all know intrigating these things can lead to some small issues.

As I have said I done see the point in running away for being caught out for feeding, there are far more out there doing just the same, I for one have done so myself (yeah I admit it openly) just not this wave but in saying that I wouldve done if I was offered naq for free...

The real question is where do we draw the line? receiving naq from a team mate is fine in my opinion as they are in the same alliance, receiving naq from a player/s that are farming for the purpose of giving to another is wrong! Or even receiving naq from player/s that are going to quit, im not so sure I think that their resources would be better added to the market or some kinda pool where we all benifit, the options are limitless.

I think that we will need to all have a sit down with Admin and discuss this in greater detail, because if we dont there will be no-one left playing the game and the = no income to keep the server going..
If that happens we all lose..

My 2c worth or here in the uk 1 penny lmao

Slugworth Assrot wrote:Some people argue that 'he isnt using multis'. Well what is a multi exactly? Its a secondary account used by a player to further his own primary account. Getting a friend to log in and do it is just multi'ing by proxy. The secondary account is performing the same function, it just isnt controlled by the same person.

Thank you for making my point for me so well mate. Feeding off of inactive accounts that belong to friends is a convenient way around the rule against having more than 1 account. If anyone cant understand that they need to wake up.

@slug

Feeding is not cheating. It is that simple. It is a tactic used by many, and has been since Q began.
Last wave SeiJuRo got fed so much, it was impossible to compete with him. This wave the same was happening with FEARLESS (but on investigation, he had cheated)
other than that, feeding alone does not decide who wins each wave. It is a help, like catching someone off PPT, or finding all the inactives haven't been farmed for 15 hours, or buying USS's
It is usualy when someone has a good combination of all of these that they win a wave.

When one of the factors becomes too powerful, it needs to be addressed.

I remember a few waves ago people who bought USS were pulling too far away from the rest of the field. So admin had to change the bonus given from USS to regain some balance.

Balance is what is important. SeiJuRo upset the balance last wave, which is why I declared war on feeders, to discourage anyone following his example.. Unfortunately it didn't work.. FEARLESS did the same, and everyone got a bit paranoid about any excess naq.

Do you honestly beleive hippy has played for this long, made as many friends as he has.. And done as well as he has, simply by feeding?

Feeding happens, it does not completely unbalance the game unless it is abused. It is the abuse that needs to be stopped.


@Affirmation
You were treated harshsly because of how majorly SeiJuRo abused feeders. But if you do go back and read what was written at the time.. Seijuro is the one everyone was treating harshly, you were not named and shamed as having done something wicked, you just seemed to pipe up and take the majority of peoples anger, because there was no1 else.

The use of feeders does not win a wave, it does help.
Using feeders is not as easy as people seem to think either.. How many people do you know that would be willing to spend a few hours farming, for no reason but to help a friend? Going on PPT and telling some1 the end-time is more common, because it is easy for the feeder.
It is easier to farm for yourself than convince someone to do it for you. Or to donate $50 and get a nice boost to everything. Or watch all the accounts on PPT to catch one ending.

Feeding is legal. But, as anything, is very influential when ABUSED.

But as always, this is just my opinion. And I fully expect bebita to ignore the post entirely, and simply say
"feeding is bad!
Mass them all!"

And I'm sure there will be some who agree.

@Sleepy

Then we could just make multiing legal too. It's the same as having your friends feed you, the only difference is that you do the whole job yourself.

well well isnt this a turn of events, you declare war on feeders and the fed and now your defending them Sleepy? I must admit im rather confused, is that your defending a team mate and to hell with all others that have been fed?

Im not sure but to just make the above post totally contradicts what you and Hippy started at the begining of the wave 'War Against feeders!

Question on mind now is if it had been say me would you still be defending my actions? I think not!

Anyway I have posted my comments on this issue and stand by them, just had to comment on this hypocrisy..

I have said in earlier posts one rule for TCC and another for all other alliance and your last post suggests that my comments were indeed accurate.

Besides all the above I have known and played this game from era one and know all the players for their good point and bad, and I wouldnt have accused Hippy of having a multi but then I have known for many era's that the bulk of TCC members were at some stage or another being fed, I agree it isnt illegal and as such there is no shame in it, Hippy should not be forced to leave the community of Q simply for doing the same as many other players.

ok said my piece

@slug = you wonder why i say he is not a multy is because i have had him in my alliance i see him on msn and he is good player. and now why he is ok.... admin has left the feeding a friend open for strategic reasons. if you wanted to fight rank 1 and needed help. what would it matter if they were in the same alliance or not? if someone had a multy or friend they would just allow in the alliance and its ok? lol. and another thing.... at end of wave - it has been done many times where friends and alliance member and officers sell out for their friend to help them for rank. self sacrifice.

@all= will everyone shut the $$$$ up about feeding. whats done is done. cant go back only forward. when i sign in makes me want to slap some of you in the face (reading these books in forums over multying and feeding.. saying the same thing over and over and over and over again). need to get me some cliff notes.

S1eepy wrote:@slug

Feeding is not cheating. It is that simple. It is a tactic used by many, and has been since Q began.
Last wave SeiJuRo got fed so much, it was impossible to compete with him. This wave the same was happening with FEARLESS (but on investigation, he had cheated)
other than that, feeding alone does not decide who wins each wave. It is a help, like catching someone off PPT, or finding all the inactives haven't been farmed for 15 hours, or buying USS's
It is usualy when someone has a good combination of all of these that they win a wave.

When one of the factors becomes too powerful, it needs to be addressed.

I remember a few waves ago people who bought USS were pulling too far away from the rest of the field. So admin had to change the bonus given from USS to regain some balance.

Balance is what is important. SeiJuRo upset the balance last wave, which is why I declared war on feeders, to discourage anyone following his example.. Unfortunately it didn't work.. FEARLESS did the same, and everyone got a bit paranoid about any excess naq.

Do you honestly beleive hippy has played for this long, made as many friends as he has.. And done as well as he has, simply by feeding?

Feeding happens, it does not completely unbalance the game unless it is abused. It is the abuse that needs to be stopped.


@Affirmation
You were treated harshsly because of how majorly SeiJuRo abused feeders. But if you do go back and read what was written at the time.. Seijuro is the one everyone was treating harshly, you were not named and shamed as having done something wicked, you just seemed to pipe up and take the majority of peoples anger, because there was no1 else.

The use of feeders does not win a wave, it does help.
Using feeders is not as easy as people seem to think either.. How many people do you know that would be willing to spend a few hours farming, for no reason but to help a friend? Going on PPT and telling some1 the end-time is more common, because it is easy for the feeder.
It is easier to farm for yourself than convince someone to do it for you. Or to donate $50 and get a nice boost to everything. Or watch all the accounts on PPT to catch one ending.

Feeding is legal. But, as anything, is very influential when ABUSED.

But as always, this is just my opinion. And I fully expect bebita to ignore the post entirely, and simply say
"feeding is bad!
Mass them all!"

And I'm sure there will be some who agree.

things like that manny people to think feeding and multi is just legal .....
as faar i see sleepy should not let anymore to play this game
massed everytime when he have something
and maybe this way q will gain a cleaner game

Feeding is legal
Multi is Cheating

They are the rules.

Bebita, I understand English is not your first language, so my long messages are harder for you to fully understand. But can you please explain why I should not be allowed to play the game anymore?

----

As I tried to say in my post.. The reason for declaring war on feeders was to stop a repeat of SeiJuRo.. It was never going to be possible to eliminate feeding. Next wave might be different with transparent logs. We shall see.

Honestly Hippy, even if you win everyone will discredit it, much like they did with SH last era.
It will be a pointless show that if you feed you can win, which is something everyone knows already. People want to know you can win via proper strategy and playing hard, not by cheating. I know its not cheating by the rules but I personally still regard it as a form of cheating, as do many others.

The only type of feeding I would condone is:
a) a friend comes off PPT and has forgotten, you snatch it off them, then give it back to them when they're online, or
b) to loan to a friend or alliance member,
On a side note, I highly recommend the alliance loaning idea that was put forward earlier. Suggest that the loan can only be as big as the amount of naq alliance members put into an alliance bank. Within the last 5 days of the era, like the market, the alliance bank shuts down and collects any loans and distributes naq back to the players who contributed to the bank?

In the end the decision is yours Hippy and you will do what you want to do.

S1eepy wrote:Feeding is legal
Multi is Cheating

They are the rules.

Bebita, I understand English is not your first language, so my long messages are harder for you to fully understand. But can you please explain why I should not be allowed to play the game anymore?

----

As I tried to say in my post.. The reason for declaring war on feeders was to stop a repeat of SeiJuRo.. It was never going to be possible to eliminate feeding. Next wave might be different with transparent logs. We shall see.

u are the guy who yells that feeding is legal and honorable and everyone should do that

You are not understanding what I am saying.

Feeding is legal, that is a fact. Therefore some who feeds, is not a cheater.

I see feeding as part of the game, because it has always been around.
But abusing it (like seijuro) is completely unacceptable. But still not cheating. It is something we have to deal with. But I never expected to get rid of all feeding, as it has been around as long as farming. People will always be willing to help each other reach goals.. like massing rank 1, or getting a AC level, or trying to stay top ranks.