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Sorry about that Avenger, I just don't like it when people try to publicly insult me without reason

Back on topic though, I think people with clean records who know how to store them, clean them, and use them properly, should be allowed to have them.

By saying 'school' Jack do you mean from say the age of 14 upwards?

or do you mean younger/older?

Jack wrote:Younger for the "don't play with guns" training, about that age for gun safety training.

I cant see anything wrong with that as long as its done carefully so as not to enhance firearms. I dont know how it works in the US but in the UK all the drug/sex ed stuff in UK schools just makes you want to go out and do it right away rather than anything the education is trying to tell you.

So depending on the kind of education, sure good plan. might take away some of the mythos of firearms and make people less scared of them and help them realise what they are.

ill say this once, there is no need to own or have a firearm at all, that is why it is illegal to carry one in most countries, its a macho thing, to have power in ones fingertips, there is no need unless you are in the army or police in which case it could possibly help.

Earendil wrote:

ROCKY wrote:ill say this once, there is no need to own or have a firearm at all, that is why it is illegal to carry one in most countries, its a macho thing, to have power in ones fingertips, there is no need unless you are in the army or police in which case it could possibly help.

So, I, myself shouldn't be allowed to own one, even though I hurt on our own personal property?

hunt?

I dont think he is meaning hunting rifles/other hunting guns. But guns as a means of "defense"

For hunting I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to own guns for that or any recreational sport that you enjoy doing that involves guns but due to their dangerous nature they shouldn't be easy to obtain. As in a look into the persons background and the person should wanting the gun should know how to use them and store them. So Earendil in my view you should be able to shoot all the animals you want on your land so long as you're responsible.

In terms of using them as a form of defence I agree with Rocky, there really is no need and I'm glad they aren't as easily available here than they are in the US.

Edit : P.S Sorry for going off topic a bit, but it was funny enough at the time

Tyber Zann wrote:In New Zealand, you can gain a firearms license at 16. Get a background check, pass a theory test at a police station, pay the fee - and off you go to the gun store.

Your able to buy hunting weapons - rifles, shotguns etc. You must have a firearms license to do this. No license no gun.

However a special "collectors" license must be obtained if you want to be able to own automatic and certain semi-automatic weapons. These arnt given out willie nilly over here.

Another condition of the license is your storage facility for the guns has to be inspected, to ensure its safe/secure. Rounds must be stored seperatley, and firing pins optionally removed.

All right for hunting, proper usage is key i know i clean and store guns properly but i have heard some horror stories of miscleaning and back ups due from not cleaning after your season use was over.

I was took class's when i was 12 if remeber right and wasn't able to use fire arms untill 14 legaly for hunting but could shoot them at no age

Earendil: Right boy...dont forget to aim off for the wind
Student: Ok Mr Ery, sir
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Colton wrote:Sorry about that Avenger, I just don't like it when people try to publicly insult me without reason

no probs, understood

Jack wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:cloak is quite right, this has gone off topic and i would like it to stay on topic and all hostilities to end please
this is sposed to be a friendly and adult discussion regarding the right to keep and bear arms, for sporting, defence or ornamental use.

just so we are all clear, i do NOT think guns should be readily available to just anyone and i do believe that strict guidelines should be in place and that only people of sound mind (and have been trained in their use, keeping and storage) and clean criminal record should be able to have a firearm if they so wish.

I think that firearm safety and what not should be taught in school and start at a young age at that. And I don't mean those ridiculously pointless 10 minute "guns are bad, mkay?" sessions the police love to give to children once and call it a day. I mean actual training, then as they get older train them to properly handle and fire a gun.

i agree completely

http://www.frontsight.com/index.asp







THAT'S CLASSIC!!!

Earendil wrote:

ROCKY wrote:ill say this once, there is no need to own or have a firearm at all, that is why it is illegal to carry one in most countries, its a macho thing, to have power in ones fingertips, there is no need unless you are in the army or police in which case it could possibly help.

So, I, myself shouldn't be allowed to own one, even though I hurt on our own personal property?

its a different topic, but is there really a need to hunt?, it may be perfectly safe, legal or whatever, i was saying there is no need to own or carry a firearm, i still stand by what i said.

ROCKY wrote:

Earendil wrote:

ROCKY wrote:ill say this once, there is no need to own or have a firearm at all, that is why it is illegal to carry one in most countries, its a macho thing, to have power in ones fingertips, there is no need unless you are in the army or police in which case it could possibly help.

So, I, myself shouldn't be allowed to own one, even though I hurt on our own personal property?

its a different topic, but is there really a need to hunt?, it may be perfectly safe, legal or whatever, i was saying there is no need to own or carry a firearm, i still stand by what i said.

Gotta respect someone who stand by his convictions, I view hand guns, rifles, semi-automatics, machine guns and sniper rifles as the same. They are a tool for one thing, not as a remote control as Homer J Simpson believed nor an momentum but for some in understand who have been to war or has a family thing. They are make to kill nothing less nothing more, I think its not a guns fault who it kills its the person behind it. So really why do you need a gun in public areas? There are plenty of other things but I can see the other side too after all you obey the law but crim's don't. What would you suggest Rocky?

NONE of you will ever convince me in any way shape or form that guns are not needed for self defense in most cases. As I said before 99.9% of the robbery cases I worked where the victim was armed with anything other than a firearm, the victim was killed. 99.9% of the cases I worked where the victim WAS armed with a firearm, the perp was the one killed. Which more of them SHOULD be killed as most of them are repeat offenders and therefor classified by United States law as a career criminal thus non-rehabilitatable. Hence a waste of space and oxygen in my opinion good for nothing but fertilizer.

Ridd1ck wrote:NONE of you will ever convince me in any way shape or form that guns are not needed for self defense in most cases. As I said before 99.9% of the robbery cases I worked where the victim was armed with anything other than a firearm, the victim was killed. 99.9% of the cases I worked where the victim WAS armed with a firearm, the perp was the one killed. Which more of them SHOULD be killed as most of them are repeat offenders and therefor classified by United States law as a career criminal thus non-rehabilitatable. Hence a waste of space and oxygen in my opinion good for nothing but fertilizer.

Well, since you are saying this from your point of view which i guess is from the unites states where in some states, its legal to own a gun and its very easy to obtain one, also tell me what happened to this person who killed the criminal? he most likely was sentenced for life to jail for either manslaughter or murder, doesn't matter who it is that was killed, thats 25years minimum.

These percentages are also only because a gun gives you such an easy opportunity to kill someone without thinking much, a valid reason to not allow people to own guns in itself, when you think of how the world is developing, how new medecine is allowing people to live for longer, survive past lethal diseases, does that really mean we have to squander these new opportunities and also develop new weapons to the complete opposite effect and make them available the same way, some times even more available?

As for your point lone dragon, its true that crinimals will always defy the law and somehow probably always be able to get their hands on a gun, thats life and i can understand that, but making gun possession legal surrely increases these armed robberies where the end result is a killing. What if in the credit crunch someone looses their job and everything they own, some will turn to robbery, this does not mean they will carry a gun and kill, however with guns legal, a lot of people will own one naturally, put a gun into the picture and all of a sudden the homeowner wakes up on this robbery and with part of his dignity still intact, not wanting to end up in jail this person comits the murder. There are many examples, its of course always the person who comits the murder, however the gun just helps and aids these killings and therefore its not doing a lot of good at all...

ROCKY wrote:
As for your point lone dragon, its true that crinimals will always defy the law and somehow probably always be able to get their hands on a gun, thats life and i can understand that, but making gun possession legal surrely increases these armed robberies where the end result is a killing. What if in the credit crunch someone looses their job and everything they own, some will turn to robbery, this does not mean they will carry a gun and kill, however with guns legal, a lot of people will own one naturally, put a gun into the picture and all of a sudden the homeowner wakes up on this robbery and with part of his dignity still intact, not wanting to end up in jail this person comits the murder. There are many examples, its of course always the person who comits the murder, however the gun just helps and aids these killings and therefore its not doing a lot of good at all...

Very Valid point but I will ask a counter to your moral question, when a child losses his parents due to no fault of there own how could you say well at least your parents didn't murder anyone with a gun?

I do see your point and in a utopia situation I would back your opinion to the hilt, I agree not a lot of uses for a gun I perceive more responsibility attached to the person holding it rather than a tool, I can tell you this in all honesty a gun is nothing the human mind is a far, far more dangerous thing...