Natality issues

[[KMA]Avenger]

there's a couple problems with the "over-population theory" that those who support the theory conveniently and continually overlook, disregard or choose to ignore (take your pick). the first being that current world food production is in excess of 13 billion, that means the combined food production from every single country on planet earth can feed 13+ billion people.
2ndly, while many parts of our cities are indeed over-populated, many parts of the rural areas are being wasted. i'm not talking about cutting down rain forests or wiping out ecosystems so we can build houses, there is more than enough room for all 6+ (actually, its closer to 7) billion people and many more as well, the sad fact is, Govt is not capable of resource management, that is self evident, and we as a species are just as guilty as out Govts.

in the mid to late 80's the city of London (inner London, the west end, the banking district known as The City") wished to expand but where can the centre of a city expand to if most of its buildings are protected and listed?! the answer was The Docklands, miles and miles and miles of land just sitting there abandoned, and it was there under their noses for so many years, its not exactly central but its not that far either.

the point being, with regards to food, we need to stop wasting and be more responsible. with land, i'm sure the answers are there if we care to look...

but i guess its easier to just say that there are to many people?!


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... eople.html




[spoiler]politician: OMG! TO MANY PEOPLE!

media person: OMG! ARE YOU SERIOUS?

politician: YES, TO MANY PEOPLE, WE CANT FEED THEM, WE CANT HOUSE THEM...WE ARE ALL DOOMED SAY THE SCIENTIST!

media person: which scientists?

politician: ALL OF THEM!!!

media person reports to the people: OMG, POLITICIANS AND SCIENTISTS AGREE WE ARE ALL DOOMED BECAUSE THE EVIL PEOPLE OF THE WORLD ARE HAVING TO MANY BABIES...YOU BAD PEOPLE!!!

the stupid people who are to lazy and dumbed down on fluoride: OMG!!! TO MANY PEOPLE, LETS ONLY HAVE 1 CHILD AND CONDEMN ANYONE WHO DISAGREES!!![/spoiler]




@moses of romania and Universe: if you 2 agree that we are doomed because of "to many people", then you 2 can be the first and show the rest of us what we can do about it

and if its to noisy and you don't have the courage for option 1, then there is the more sensible option and move just as i did to a nice rural and quiet area.

[Juliette]

OMG! Too many people!

Get to the choppa!!!

[Legendary Apophis]

Well my teacher wasn't here so I came back to home lol..

On topic, you seem to forget the most problematic places aren't EU countries. Yes, I adressed this topic to everyone, but to avoid to turn into overflowed countries, rather prevent than heal when we can prevent, isn't it?
I think that stopping giving aids for extra children above 3rd or fourth would be a nice step in our EU countries. That would prevent temptation of state-help suckers to have reasons to get more children. And please, don't bring the death rate fact, it was a problem decades ago. See, even in those poor countries, population skyrockets. So in our countries, those doing many children don't have any valid excuses!!!!
I have the feeling people have a vision of future in short term. "We will manage to keep it going for 20-30 years". Then what? Judgement day?

London's case might be solved, but...what about Bangladesh's case? Nigeria's case? Such countries are close to reaching critical mass of population! (Just think about Lagos...it's...beyond reason lol!)

OMG! Too many people!

Get to the choppa!!!

@moses of romania and Universe: if you 2 agree that we are doomed because of "to many people", then you 2 can be the first and show the rest of us what we can do about it

and if its to noisy and you don't have the courage for option 1, then there is the more sensible option and move just as i did to a nice rural and quiet area.

The option 1, I mentionned it already for moses of romania!

[[KMA]Avenger]

i see my entire post and the points i made have been-as i explained with the opening sentence "conveniently and continually overlooked, disregarded or ignored" take your pick!

should i expect an intelligent reply or counter sometime soon, or should i just give up now?

[Legendary Apophis]

i see my entire post and the points i made have been-as i explained with the opening sentence "conveniently and continually overlooked, disregarded or ignored" take your pick!

should i expect an intelligent reply or counter sometime soon, or should i just give up now?

You gave us a nice speech about how London's City could build new buildings in the docks. Would it solve problems I mentionned on my last posts? Unlikely. Very unlikely. Not all countries have large former industrial areas being abandonned.
My reply wasn't intelligent? Oh of course...

Then, oh almighty intelligent all knowing one, give us solutions for overflowed cities like Dacca, Lagos and such? Or about how slowing down immigrants' and some popular classes way of doing children?

D'oh!!

[[KMA]Avenger]

Jim, just in case the language barrier has gotten in the way of our communication (no joke or sarcasm), i'll make myself clear...

i have asked you a few questions repeatedly and you have failed to answer any of them, instead you ignore my questions and more importantly-the points i have made and instead made comments of your own and have expected me to give replies to your COMMENTS while you conveniently ignore my QUESTIONS.

while the solution for London is under our very noses, if we care to look at the problem of each individual town and city, i am sure there are solutions for the problem of space and room (as i have ALREADY STATED ABOVE BUT YOU DIDN'T COUNTER OR COMMENT ON MY POINT, EXCEPT TO SAY "nice speech"), as for food, i have given you a link proving that to can be easily overcome...


NOW, as i have stated above, CAN I EXPECT AN INTELLIGENT REPLY OR COUNTER ANY TIME SOON?

[Juliette]

Lagos: Cut down a hundred or so square kilometer of rainforest and voilá, habitable.
Dacca/Dhaka: Use the Lagos rainforest to support new houses built around Dhaka.

Voilá.. problem solved.
Infrastructural problems? Nuh-huh. As long as those trees are not stolen by pirates.

[Legendary Apophis]

Jim, just in case the language barrier has gotten in the way of our communication (no joke or sarcasm), i'll make myself clear...

i have asked you a few questions repeatedly and you have failed to answer any of them, instead you ignore my questions and more importantly-the points i have made and instead made comments of your own and have expected me to give replies to your COMMENTS while you conveniently ignore my QUESTIONS.

while the solution for London is under our very noses, if we care to look at the problem of each individual town and city, i am sure there are solutions for the problem of space and room (as i have ALREADY STATED ABOVE BUT YOU DIDN'T COUNTER OR COMMENT ON MY POINT, EXCEPT TO SAY "nice speech"), as for food, i have given you a link proving that to can be easily overcome...


NOW, as i have stated above, CAN I EXPECT AN INTELLIGENT REPLY OR COUNTER ANY TIME SOON?

What are those questions?

And my point about london was, as I explained, not something that could be done everywhere.

Lagos: Cut down a hundred or so square kilometer of rainforest and voilá, habitable.
Dacca/Dhaka: Use the Lagos rainforest to support new houses built around Dhaka.

Voilá.. problem solved.
Infrastructural problems? Nuh-huh. As long as those trees are not stolen by pirates.

Don't you think forests and species living there aren't enough decimated currently?
I don't include destruction of forests as solutions, because it simply raises other problems that will be unlikely solvable. Human did enough damages to nature, don't you think? Stopping to destroy forests is more to do than the opposite..damn.

If anyone here did see Fifth Element movie, then you must see what I REALLY DON'T want to have as future. They probably did destroy all forests around to "solve problems" in this movie, and result is not really what we would like as future.

[Juliette]

It really depends.. if there's a good industrial model CO2 scrubber that can keep the composition of our atmosphere in good shape - i.e. maintain the 20% oxygen rate and kill off stuff that kills you - then what do we need trees for, beside the obvious aesthetic reasons? Biodiversity.. meh. As long as the human gene pool is varied enough and improved upon.. who needs donkeys.

Hm, we could actually get defective humans to pull carts. That might be enough reason to keep them around in places where there are no cars, planes or other transportation.

[Legendary Apophis]

It really depends.. if there's a good industrial model CO2 scrubber that can keep the composition of our atmosphere in good shape - i.e. maintain the 20% oxygen rate and kill off stuff that kills you - then what do we need trees for, beside the obvious aesthetic reasons? Biodiversity.. meh. As long as the human gene pool is varied enough and improved upon.. who needs donkeys.

Hm, we could actually get defective humans to pull carts. That might be enough reason to keep them around in places where there are no cars, planes or other transportation.

What a completly uncaring speech for Earth!
We "don't need them"...then if we were to list what we wouldn't need: we don't need games, video games, alcohols, movies, series, music, sauces, sodas, sports, stylish clothes, etc...either!

And also what a damn ugly planet we would have if all forests were to disappear...I really really wish to die in correct time if this horrendous era was to come..if you don't mind to live in an ugly planet with artifical CO² makers (and probably everything else artificial given disappearance of most living forms lol), fine for you, but when I will be gone!
Not to mention we would have destroyed our planet, what a nice gift to her..
Having everything artificial because, us, silly humans, couldn't do otherwise than destroy completly our own habitat. We would deserve to disappear, like dinosaurs. (in this very case, that is)
So let's try to prove we don't deserve to disappear, instead!

[Juliette]

1. Area is limited. - As long as we stick to Earth, there's going to be just this:

Surface area 510,072,000 km²

148,940,000 km² land (29.2 %)
361,132,000 km² water (70.8 %)

2. Efficiency is good. - Primary functions of a tree:

Carbon sequestration - 'air scrubbing'
Odour, dust, and noise reduction
Waste water or manure management (e.g. utilizing urban waste water on intensive, short rotation forests for wood fibre production)
Green space and visual aesthetics.
Enhancement or maintenance of wildlife habitat.

If something can do these things, while requiring less space, then that is preferable to a tree.


Easy.

[agapooka]

2 things.

The first thing surprises me, because I'll actually be agreeing with Poppy, or at least with what he stated in that which I shall cite after this wonderful disclaimer. o.o I can't get over it, but everyone else should.

We "don't need them"...then if we were to list what we wouldn't need: we don't need games, video games, alcohols, movies, series, music, sauces, sodas, sports, stylish clothes, etc...either!

Second of all, trees deserve life more than humans do. All this time, they haven't complained from their mistreatment, they haven't warred, nor have they behaved in despicable ways such as is the idiosyncratically human approach. Trees life harmoniously with the rest of living beings only being found inconvenient for their ubiety by humans, who, fueled by greed, would use the land the trees occupy to build facilities that they do not need for their own survival, or for building such facilities that may be construed as bearing relevance to human survival, but so inefficiently as to warrant the following descriptions: "wasteful", "excessive", "luxury". Essentially, these are words that are characterised by the insane act of putting one's own desires above another's needs.

Of all living beings, humans stand out with their particular inability to live harmoniously with the natural world. They also have the peculiarity of believing themselves to be superior, which is truly a product of their own ignorance and their lack of understanding of this thing called life. The human ability to reason is a poor replacement for its intuitive handicap.

That is all for now. I would like all of you to reflect on your inadequacies. I, on the other hand, have been told several times that I am actually an alien, so I shall reflect upon the extent to which my own words apply to me. kthx.

Agapooka

[Thriller]

aphophis why are you worried about overpopulation.

You just stated that the world is overpopulated with no source or reasonable evidence to support what your saying. So i had to interpret a bit and took it that from what you've seen on film of starving people and overpopulation hype is how you shaped your idea on this. But those ideas are just politics.

There isnt too many people on earth. There are just countries that cant afford to feed their populations. If we managed things better we could feed and cloth everyone sustainably. (KMA is right for once)

So i answered why i beleived they were going hungry and living in poverty. And had no wealth to help themselves.

And its because Europe and the West control 80% of the wealth. That is why i beleive they have too many mouths to feed.

[moses]

aphophis why are you worried about overpopulation.

You just stated that the world is overpopulated with no source or reasonable evidence to support what your saying. So i had to interpret a bit and took it that from what you've seen on film of starving people and overpopulation hype is how you shaped your idea on this. But those ideas are just politics.

There isnt too many people on earth. There are just countries that cant afford to feed their populations. If we managed things better we could feed and cloth everyone sustainably. (KMA is right for once)

So i answered why i beleived they were going hungry and living in poverty. And had no wealth to help themselves.

And its because Europe and the West control 80% of the wealth. That is why i beleive they have too many mouths to feed.

Europe and north america took initiative years and years ago to make sure they would have this wealth and power and to be able to clothe and feed a large part of there population and be able to offer ppl jobs, instead of starting wars with eachother or constantly being in termoil maby some of these other contininents should have followed suite, now there all imagrateing over to these other countries and they are also starting to fill up, and crime and proverty is starting to rise all over the world, its just a mater of time were aids, disease and hunger start to spread faster and faster more and more fobs arive every day , i live in canada western and at most point in times now the White ppl are vastly out numbered by others, i am no rascist dont get me wrong my fiance is brown im just saying the fobs are takeing over every were , my fiance lives in a rural 5000 ppl town and wait ohh asian's are now moveing in in a year whent from 1 resturount to 5 asian resturaounts lol, Time to stop all imagrateing period let ppl stay were they are see how the world turns out more wars will start more ppl will starve , Let me ask you whitch countries send the most support to the other countries in need oh wait its the west and europe

[Juliette]

Oh, I like you Moses.. that was one interesting post. *grin*