StarGateWars Forums

chamaileon wrote:If unascended races already have holo and rapid evac then that is their bonus for not ascending. Same with goauld unit recovery.

Except that, in total, ascended races get (for LG+1) +150% total stat increases, and a 30% chance of the AB.
Un-ascended accounts get 25% bonus to their main aspect (instead of 150%), and something like 20% chance of their unique tech, where as ascendeds get 30.
I'm not saying they should supass ascended accounts, but that the 125% difference in stats, and 10% difference in tech bonus, should be able to be reduced, at similar costs to what ascended accounts have to pay

chamaileon wrote:An unascended account already has the ability to survive against ascended accounts. Unascended accounts can still have planets to add to their UP/cov/attk/def and income. They can build up the same MS as we can.

They DON'T get a +30% bonus to ALL stats, just 25% bonus to ONE stat(against 150% total verses 25%)
They DON'T have stronger weapons, as ascended accounts get.

chamaileon wrote:I would say an increase in bank for starting accounts, not too large b/c players already have the chance to increase it with Market Turns.

This i totally agree with. Something i'd like to see is a 500B-1T difference. The way i would say to do this is, add 1T to every bank, and start accounts get the raw 1T as well.

chamaileon wrote:If 1k g/r gets you full supp status then there should be a hefty price for any race unique ability increase percentage. 5k G/r or something.

Or just similar costs to what it takes for ascended (maybe equivilant in Naq and/or UU)

chamaileon wrote:Players that have ascended to 23rd have more than earned their bonuses. I still have the same weapons as an LG1.

I'm not saying strip them of the power they've earned. All i want, is for those whom DON'T want to ascend, be able to spend similar resouces, and get similar bonuses, but KEEP the unique tech.
Heck, even just have the choice for you ascended blessing to be changed to and of the race unique techs, or the blessing

chamaileon wrote:I would suggest that ascended should go. We could just use tech levels to get the players their bonuses. Ranks would open up the next set of tech lvls to the player. There could be 25 ranks. g/r, and resc can still be used to rise through the ranks. Players that have already ascended could have the equivalent tech levels transferred over so no player is screwed out of their achievements. Players who have spent time playing asc could just have a flat naq buyout when asc server is closed.

Maybe, but how would you work out the exchange rate?

chamaileon wrote:Since we are no longer allowed to use terms/characters from the Stargate franchise we should pursue our own course. Asc server could be used for a seafight type battle area for our motherships/fleets. Everyone could enjoy. Id pay 5 buks or so per year for that option.
Another game I have seen has fleets, different ships become available as you reach a certain tech lvl.
So we could possibly have our basic motherships evolve. (Destroyer to Cruiser then to Battleship or something) Normal bay purchasing would still be standard.

I'm all for spicing MSs up, but i don't think re-working the ascended server for that end, is worth doing.

Yes, Unascended races do have the ability to compete.
Even if their weapons/bonuses are not up with ascended accounts.
It just takes more to get the same level of strike/def.
Planets help in that players total strike/def, along with their MS.

If they are going to choose not to ascend then fine.
They can buy a few upgrades through the tech page that increase their basic 25 percent main and 20 percent unique, but not to ascended values. (Say maybe 50-60 percent main and 23 percent unique or something)

They would have to pay with the g/r plus resources that normal players would spend to get that level through ascension. They would also loose all those techs/upgrades should they choose to start ascending.

I think that the idea is to progress your account through whatever strategy you choose to come up with. Those who choose not to ascend usually have bigger MS and army size b/c they didn't spend the resources to go through the ascension process. That is their choice of strategy.
Those who continuously trash their accounts by ascending are rewarded with those bonuses.

If a person ascended to prior their weapons are just a little bit stronger than unascended (at least it was way back when I was a prior) So just ascending doesn't make you totally dominate over unascended accounts.
When I was on my 20th asc lvl I hit a player who was unascended. He had a big MS planets that helped his def and a huge def. That player was competitive. If he/she traded in 1k g/r for full ss that account would definitely be competitive. There have been a few large players that chose this strategy in the past. It always seemed to work for them.

Exchange would have to worked on if the asc server was closed. I think players would probably want something for their time spent having to play it. Its a dead server taking up space now.

The suggestion for the 3D ship battles like seafight and dark orbit was a long term suggestion for using the space currently spent by the asc server.
I personally like the 3d ascpect of that game. (Im NOT adverstising for that game) just pointing out an aspect we might be able to use to grow our gamebase. Think about it, all those money spenders would be able to shoot it out in 3d with other big ships. Alliance fleet battles would be enjoyable. There are alot of game specs I wont get into about the hows etc b/c there would need to be other changes first. But its an idea Im putting out there.

There needs to be some positive changes to keep game interesting.
Hopefully there will be more positive idea contribution.

chamaileon wrote:Yes, Unascended races do have the ability to compete.
Even if their weapons/bonuses are not up with ascended accounts.
It just takes more to get the same level of strike/def.
Planets help in that players total strike/def, along with their MS.

If they are going to choose not to ascend then fine.
They can buy a few upgrades through the tech page that increase their basic 25 percent main and 20 percent unique, but not to ascended values. (Say maybe 50-60 percent main and 23 percent unique or something)

They would have to pay with the g/r plus resources that normal players would spend to get that level through ascension. They would also loose all those techs/upgrades should they choose to start ascending.

I think that the idea is to progress your account through whatever strategy you choose to come up with. Those who choose not to ascend usually have bigger MS and army size b/c they didn't spend the resources to go through the ascension process. That is their choice of strategy.
Those who continuously trash their accounts by ascending are rewarded with those bonuses.

If a person ascended to prior their weapons are just a little bit stronger than unascended (at least it was way back when I was a prior) So just ascending doesn't make you totally dominate over unascended accounts.
When I was on my 20th asc lvl I hit a player who was unascended. He had a big MS planets that helped his def and a huge def. That player was competitive. If he/she traded in 1k g/r for full ss that account would definitely be competitive. There have been a few large players that chose this strategy in the past. It always seemed to work for them.

So despite the fact that the key ability of a race bonus, is more then domble for someone ascended, and every other stat has a +50% bonus to it, you think they can compete?
Think about it. Say someone has a 1T raw strike, a 1T weapon power MS, and 10 attack planets with 100B each. And lets say the ascended person, also has a 1T raw attack (which btw, takes less units, thanks to the 50% bonus to the stat power), they only have a 500B MS (due to ascension costs), and 500B planet bonuses (again, ascension costs). This only comes to 2T. Whilst lower then the un-ascended person, lets no forget the ability to 60% of the time, get their attack doubled. Which means, with a weaker MS (cheeper to repair), fewer units, they can still obtain the same attack power.

bring back power ascending, if one of my friends joined the game I'd help them power ascend to LG+1... it would cost me practically nothing but sadly there is a two week imposed limit...

same for me - I have to wait 2 weeks to ascend when I'm ascension ready after 5 days

I have the naq/UU to sacrifice to ascend quickly so why cant i?

Why not make it so if you want to ascended as soon as you have enough GnR you can do so at double the cost (uu req/up req/naq req etc)

I hope any bonuses applied to non ascended players are applied to ascended players otherwise again the updates will favour those who haven't been playing for years...

I would say, bring it back for the first 6 definatly. At least then they'd have half a chance to compete.

Why should bonuses for un-ascended be applied to ascended? Ascended already get 125% more bonuses (at LG+1) and i think 5-10% more chance of the unique tech kicking in

Sarevok wrote:I would say, bring it back for the first 6 definatly. At least then they'd have half a chance to compete.

If I remember correctly, I think Lore answered the reason this was put into place when I asked during my ascension run.
I think it was to keep players from always being on PPT during their runs.
I would say maybe a 7day for the first 5 or 6.

Sarevok wrote:Why should bonuses for un-ascended be applied to ascended? Ascended already get 125% more bonuses (at LG+1) and i think 5-10% more chance of the unique tech kicking in

Question.... What are the differences between an unascended account, prior and prophet? (bonus wise etc)

Sarevok wrote:I would say, bring it back for the first 6 definatly. At least then they'd have half a chance to compete.

Why should bonuses for un-ascended be applied to ascended? Ascended already get 125% more bonuses (at LG+1) and i think 5-10% more chance of the unique tech kicking in

Why should they get a bonus for doing nothing?

I spent my resources and time to ascend to LG+1 (long before keeping your MS weapons/shields update came around) they already get to keep there MS when ascending they are already getting bonuses ahead of those who started years back... let allone the fact its so easy to grow nowadays the requirements needed for the first 5 ascensions is bugger all...

TheRook

chamaileon wrote:

Sarevok wrote:I would say, bring it back for the first 6 definatly. At least then they'd have half a chance to compete.

If I remember correctly, I think Lore answered the reason this was put into place when I asked during my ascension run.
I think it was to keep players from always being on PPT during their runs.
I would say maybe a 7day for the first 5 or 6.

The 2 week wait was put in place when shuttles and other exploiters werer creating infinite resources in main and ascending accounts every couple days or so. Then it was never removed.

TheRook wrote:

Sarevok wrote:I would say, bring it back for the first 6 definatly. At least then they'd have half a chance to compete.

Why should bonuses for un-ascended be applied to ascended? Ascended already get 125% more bonuses (at LG+1) and i think 5-10% more chance of the unique tech kicking in

Why should they get a bonus for doing nothing?

I spent my resources and time to ascend to LG+1 (long before keeping your MS weapons/shields update came around) they already get to keep there MS when ascending they are already getting bonuses ahead of those who started years back... let allone the fact its so easy to grow nowadays the requirements needed for the first 5 ascensions is bugger all...

TheRook

Because maybe they prefere to get cheeper spy levels (as i said in a previous post), or attack and take no unit losses (again previous post), or have a hologram preventing damage from an incoming attack (previous post YET again)

Sarevok wrote:

Lore wrote:

Sarevok wrote:Ascend fully, and go on vacation. Then you still get 29.5% bonuses, which is about LG+1

Why, I can't be deascended now, its not like its hard to make an account that way now.

I'm aware. I am too.

But why be forced to have to ascend. People might like the idea of for example being able to evacuate their troops, without taking losses.
Or have a hologram protect them about 1/3 of the time.
Or they might like having cheaper spy levels. Especially if they are going to be a sabber or anti-coverter for their alliance.

See

chamaileon wrote:

Sarevok wrote:Why should bonuses for un-ascended be applied to ascended? Ascended already get 125% more bonuses (at LG+1) and i think 5-10% more chance of the unique tech kicking in

Question.... What are the differences between an unascended account, prior and prophet? (bonus wise etc)

Prior = 5% to each stat (25% in total), and a 5% AB
Prophet = 10% to each stat (50% in total), and a 10% AB

Lore wrote:

chamaileon wrote:

Sarevok wrote:I would say, bring it back for the first 6 definatly. At least then they'd have half a chance to compete.

If I remember correctly, I think Lore answered the reason this was put into place when I asked during my ascension run.
I think it was to keep players from always being on PPT during their runs.
I would say maybe a 7day for the first 5 or 6.

The 2 week wait was put in place when shuttles and other exploiters werer creating infinite resources in main and ascending accounts every couple days or so. Then it was never removed.

So a mod, that wasn't removed, when the bug was fixed huh Lore?
If i'm wrong, correct me please

I have tried to see a valid reason for giving an entry level account more stats to the level you are proposing, but I just don't see why they would need the extra if they have the option to ascend and power up their account like all the rest.

I think the game mechanics are geared towards that goal. Players should have to pay the price for better stats like the rest.

I can MAYBE see adding an extra level or 2 for stats a little less than a Prophet without the option for AB. Which costs g/r and resources and are lost upon ascension. But then again why not just ascend to prophet and get the stats and AB. Why should a Prophet or LG be on the same level as an un-ascended account when he/she has paid their dues to the game to get those little bumps in stats.

Un-ascended players who had 200/300 mil armies were competitive in game. I can remember one name that comes to mind: SGC Replicators. He had competitive stats by large army (UP), MS and planets.
The whole point of the game is progression, any update that gives un-ascended accounts similar power to an LG, etc. is a gift-card and should not be done IMO.

Players who chose to remain un-ascended usually had a strategy/reason for doing so, just like those who ascended to LG1 and stopped and those like me who chose to ascend all the way.

I think these things might be just a bandage fix and cause more problems.

chamaileon wrote:I have tried to see a valid reason for giving an entry level account more stats to the level you are proposing, but I just don't see why they would need the extra if they have the option to ascend and power up their account like all the rest.

I think people are getting stuck on un-ascended = new account.
I'm saying, if you CHOOSE NOT to ascend, cause you LIKE the race specific bonuses. Then why CAN'T they upgrade their attribute in a similar way to ascending.

chamaileon wrote:I think the game mechanics are geared towards that goal. Players should have to pay the price for better stats like the rest.

YES. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING....
They get the bonuses, but have to WORK for it.

Sarevok wrote:What I want to try to do, is work with everyone, and try to get new accounts on less of an un-even footing. Something along the lines of the accounts being just underpowered compared to a LG+1. Not from the start, but able to work up there. Like use G&R to improve their current specialized stat more (greater % or whatever), or buy more (but expensive) techs to do this. This way, people can decide. Keep the unique tech, and not ascend. Or ascend, and get the ascended blessing. But allow for un-ascended to still be quite competitive.

First post, with bolded sections to make it clear. This was what i was trying to say from the VERY begining

chamaileon wrote:I can MAYBE see adding an extra level or 2 for stats a little less than a Prophet without the option for AB. Which costs g/r and resources and are lost upon ascension. But then again why not just ascend to prophet and get the stats and AB. Why should a Prophet or LG be on the same level as an un-ascended account when he/she has paid their dues to the game to get those little bumps in stats.

1) Because they LIKE the race unique tech over AB
2) PAY THE SAME AMMOUNT. Re-Read the first post. They PAY for it, and GET the increase. I'm NOT saying, give them a free ride to LG+1 power, i'm saying, let them improve their account, when not ascended, in similar costs to ascending.

chamaileon wrote:Un-ascended players who had 200/300 mil armies were competitive in game. I can remember one name that comes to mind: SGC Replicators. He had competitive stats by large army (UP), MS and planets.
The whole point of the game is progression, any update that gives un-ascended accounts similar power to an LG, etc. is a gift-card and should not be done IMO.

Despite the fact they pay the same as those accounts that are ascending? Why is that exactly?
For that fact, why not just FORCE everyone to start as a LG+1 then? Since in your opinion, allowing un-ascended accounts (not the dam new ones) to compete is silly...

chamaileon wrote:Players who chose to remain un-ascended usually had a strategy/reason for doing so, just like those who ascended to LG1 and stopped and those like me who chose to ascend all the way.

Exactly. So why should they be condemed for the choice they made? Why shouldn't they be allowed to improve their stats in a similar way ascended accounts can

chamaileon wrote:I think these things might be just a bandage fix and cause more problems.

How is this a fix for anything? All i'm saying is to allow people whom don't want to ascend, be able to get similar bonuses to those whom do, though still costing similar to what ascending does.