StarGateWars Forums

I cant believe how attached people have become to this perk... you'd think it was oxygen or something.

Everyone got along fine before this perk was introduced and i don't think anyone can really sit there and tell me that their alright with the idea of the button being spammed 24/7 all day every day by the alliances who can afford to. Some limits needed to be put on it. I wonder how many people would complain if a perk was added that made you never lose supers?

Sarevok wrote:Quick question regarding the change. I fail to understand why it was changed...

There is 3 ways to take someone out:
1) Kill their units
2) Kill their weapons
3) Sabotage their weapons.

The only thing the alliance bank allowed, was for the weapons to not be killed. If you keep massing them, their units will die off, their defence will get weaker, and it will be massed.

Not to mention, you can sabotage the weapons as well... The weapon repair isn't going to fix sabotaged weapons.

Another point. Can not both sides use it to the same extent? Can not any alliance setup 2-3 Leaders/2ICs of the alliance, and use the weapon repair to the same extent? Can not someone massing have their weapons repaired, at the same time someone defending has theirs repaired as well?

I personally liked this. It encouraged alliance management alot more, and greater co-ordination between members of an alliance. With 1/turn, or even 10/turn, it still becomes almost redundant. You get 1 person to mas 1 member of the alliance, and once all the repairs are used, you get everyone else in your alliance that's active, to go in and mass the defending alliance, since they can now not repair for another 20 mins or so. Defences are massed in minutes, not turns or hours

Actually their defense wont be massed because you can never kill ALL of their units. You could sab pre-perk post-perk and post-tweak so bringing up sabbing doesn't really help the discussion. Before you could kill their weapons and grind down their units allowing you to pick the defense clean and force them to build a new defense. Now you never actually kill the defense you just reduce it to a point where you can no longer hurt it without sabbing. If they are at all competent then they can rebuild their def with only the cost of UU instead of UU and weapons. Just because both sides could have someone spam the repair button doesn't mean they should be able to. You example would go back to the status quo which has reigned for how many years? There was nothing wrong with it then and there isn't now. I'd rather see a perk that allowed you to hit alliance members in the same house for x hours and have blocking and such come back in style. More fun and just as much if not more strategy as this perk.

I hate having to break up posts like this. But it was a wall of text, so hard for people to see the separation. Hence the break up like this

Wepwaet wrote:Actually their defense wont be massed because you can never kill ALL of their units.

I would hardly call 37 defence supers and 19 defence mercs a defence. And once it's that low, ACing through that defence is hardly going to hinder the power of the ACing. And why not get the code fixed, so there's no more leftovers, then there would be no more defences again.

Wepwaet wrote:You could sab pre-perk post-perk and post-tweak so bringing up sabbing doesn't really help the discussion.

Sure it does. Your argument is based on the inability to destroy a defence without massing both weapons and units. All I'm pointing out is that there are 3 ways to 0 a defence. This perk only blocks 1. A combination of the other 2 can do just as gooder job.
Also, the sabbing is much stronger now. No covert turns used to spy, sabotage only taking 3 covert turns instead of 2, sabotage doing 50% more damage.

Wepwaet wrote:Before you could kill their weapons and grind down their units allowing you to pick the defense clean and force them to build a new defense. Now you never actually kill the defense you just reduce it to a point where you can no longer hurt it without sabbing. If they are at all competent then they can rebuild their def with only the cost of UU instead of UU and weapons.

Defences were never massed to the extent you are dreaming of. Have you ever massed a defence until there's only the like 40 defence supers left? Or did you used to stop, once most of the UU were dead, and the weapons were gone?
Also, it's alot easier to replace weapons then it is to replace UU. Past buying cap, and you need to raid the UU instead of getting them directly. Past raid cap, and you must rely on your own UP. I'm pretty sure it's alot harder to replace 10m units at a UP of 1m/day, then it is to replace 10m weapons. Especially when you can just hit a few missed PPT accounts and get like 6T for the weapons in 4-5 hits.

Sighs....ok, I was at the admin meet, and I supported the idea of the alliance weapon repair (AWR) once per turn, as opposed to once every 30mins, (yes there is a small and significant difference). Now I don't remember if I originally had it or went off what someone else said, but I'll take responsibility for once a turn anyway.

I, like to try an balance my ideas between the extremes. In this case, we have on one side an account with no realm alert/nox being impossible to mass thanks to alliance repair. On the other side, an account with crit/nox being unmassable for all eternity.

Now, I admit, it has been awhile since I've been a fight, so I may not have the best data available to make a fair assessment.

Based on what data I had and what I could judge from the admin meet, to me it seemed that 15 minutes would allow strategic repairs to keep anyone on crit/nox from massed, but allow anyone not on crit/nox to be massed despite AWR.

Once a turn generally means an alliance can use it every 30 mins, except for the first 2-3 times.
If the aggressor starts massing at the beginning of the turn, then half way through that turn, then the AWR would need to be used, if the aggressor continues to mass, then the next time the AWR would need to be used right after the turn change, which is when it will have recharged. From there it would require an alliance to last a full 30 minutes.

Now, if that is not enough, or thinking that an alliance should be able to maintain it longer than what that allows, then I think Wepweat has the right idea.

Wepwaet wrote:Maybe a good compromise could be that like AT your alliance generates AWR points at 1 per turn up to say 96 or 2 days worth. You squander them and your sol but you can use them if needed (and available) in a pinch.

Now I personally, think 96 AWR is to much, but I'll let those who have more recent waring make the final call. I can run some numbers...

Seeing regens 2 days while on PPT, use them one day allowing 2 per turn...actually 3 considering 1 a whole 3rd set could be recharging, ppt 2 more, then have to make them last 2 days which would be 2 per turn with 1 being a replacement charge....I suppose it could work, attackers would certainly have a good challenge on their hands to keep pressing the attack.........perhaps a day and half...72 turns...


Anyway, that is an easy add on and easily adjusted to new values as time goes on so what exactly is the problem?

People who are not on crit/nox can be massed? IF that is really that big of a issue I suppose I could try come up with something that would fairly allow alliance leaders to activate a crit/nox for their alliance.....

TC

Brdavs wrote:If possible I personally would reset alliance banks and bank size purchased with them, scale the rate naq goes in but leave it as it is otherwise. This "tweak" is sensless cos the core problem of trils to spend on nothing but multi quad banks (itself insane) remains. And you still cant add a house feature worth a dime precisely because of that. House improvments and gifts could be awsome, if you cured the problem at the root, not just apply quick fixes where whiners of the day tell you to.

I disagree with this. I think the alliance bank should not be reset. Also if admin reset all the bank size upgrades purchased, it would probably cause some people to have too much naq in their bank, therefore causing them to possibly lose tons of naq. If that were to happen, there would be alot of upset players

As for the AWR limit, i think it should be somewhere around 5 times a turn.

Doesnt really matter whether its reset or not, large alliances will grow larger banks faster, whether they are in war or not right now.
Just up repair cost to 10 bill or so, so people think twice about repairing for each attack.
Alliance ppt should cost a heavy amount more than that.
I think costs should probably be scaled to reflect on the army sizes of the players in the alliance.
e.g an alliance with 10 people at rank 1 with 300 mill army sizes should cost a fair bit more than 10 noobs at >3000 rank, when repairing, and even alliance ppt'ing and bank size increase. It seems logical.

game updates factorized largely ppl who can afford heavy def's , so large alliances use this as a policy , so they can repair for a cheap amount of 6b some damage that can reach even 1t on few members.
alliance repairs and ppt set game to a point that one have to waste an account for a mass.

im of the idea of removing them at all or letting them as they were.

Full use or no use for these tricks. they dont have to be limited so only a few can fully benefit them.

the small alliances can use it multiple time to protect being fully massed within 1 turn, they are at the range of being massed without building a large strike.

Double edged sword, alliance repair is very helpful when you want to use it and extremely frustrating when someone else is using it, mainly because their is no chance of getting the repair naq to stop the person your attacking from repairing and banging away at an alliance repair button needs no skill. Also as previously mentioned it makes massing far far cheaper as on big strikes/defs the alliance cost was so much less than it would have cost the individuals to repair.

I also agree that banks should have been reset, having functions that rely on alliance banks that have been building up for over a year before they were released discourages players from forming new alliances and thats always a bad thing IMO, we need more variety not just the same old choices of which established alliance new players should join.

I think restricting the usage of alliance repair all weapons is a good thing but with only 1 repair per turn ( not enough to stop a massing ) it does make it fairly pointless having it at all.



I hope admin also removes or restricts usage of the alliance PPT in the same way, if restricted Id say once per day with a max of 2 hours would be better.

lower wait time for attacks due to nox and crit

Put a time limiter on the alliance repair button. Like a nox type of deal.

MEZZANINE wrote:Double edged sword, alliance repair is very helpful when you want to use it and extremely frustrating when someone else is using it, mainly because their is no chance of getting the repair naq to stop the person your attacking from repairing and banging away at an alliance repair button needs no skill. Also as previously mentioned it makes massing far far cheaper as on big strikes/defs the alliance cost was so much less than it would have cost the individuals to repair.

Actually this isn't correct. Again, people assuming you must destroy weapons to destroy a defence. You can mass them and kill the units (I'm pretty sure they die faster then weapons now anyway) and the weapons remain. They must retrain units or they will die. And if you are using the raid option instead of farm option, then any units they untrain to re-train start getting raided, and if you alternate farm and raid, then any naq they get out to farm with also gets taken.

i think the alliance repair being put in was by far the best update put in for a long time

made people think rather than the mindless massings of old

to have it removed was an aweful choice more aweful by how quick the choice came

like many others i am very annoyed as some alliances spammed their banks to 100 times what it was we for one tatically saved most ours for the eventuality of war and now the upgrades have increased in price (from what i hear) the alliances that did spend it on their banks that'll never be filled benefited the most from it

personally i think if anything is brought up in the admin meet as influential as this one there should be some sort of vote on it from the players of at least some sort

Sarevok wrote:

MEZZANINE wrote:Double edged sword, alliance repair is very helpful when you want to use it and extremely frustrating when someone else is using it, mainly because their is no chance of getting the repair naq to stop the person your attacking from repairing and banging away at an alliance repair button needs no skill. Also as previously mentioned it makes massing far far cheaper as on big strikes/defs the alliance cost was so much less than it would have cost the individuals to repair.

Actually this isn't correct. Again, people assuming you must destroy weapons to destroy a defence. You can mass them and kill the units (I'm pretty sure they die faster then weapons now anyway) and the weapons remain. They must retrain units or they will die. And if you are using the raid option instead of farm option, then any units they untrain to re-train start getting raided, and if you alternate farm and raid, then any naq they get out to farm with also gets taken.

Wrong lol

A massing is not a massing if the weapons survive as the weapons are often the greatest value not the UU, and you dont have to retrain, if someone was banging away at the alliance repair button the men die down to about 38 I think then they stopped dying and the weapons remained intact. By this point the attacker has declared war and the defender is phased, then the defender could strike back with no nox at a time that suits them.

Alliance Repair button BAD

Alliance PPT BAD





As for the point about mindless massing, that sill happens, just less against players in alliances with highly active AL or 2IC

But I agree all major updates like this should be put to player votes BEFORE being coded, admin spends a lot of time coding updates most people either dont want, or want different variations of.

Sarevok wrote:

Wepwaet wrote:Actually their defense wont be massed because you can never kill ALL of their units.

I would hardly call 37 defence supers and 19 defence mercs a defence. And once it's that low, ACing through that defence is hardly going to hinder the power of the ACing. And why not get the code fixed, so there's no more leftovers, then there would be no more defences again.

Perhaps read a previous post of mine?? And also realise that it's the UU not the weapons which are the hardest to replace in this post I ALSO made...

Sarevok wrote:Also, it's alot easier to replace weapons then it is to replace UU. Past buying cap, and you need to raid the UU instead of getting them directly. Past raid cap, and you must rely on your own UP. I'm pretty sure it's alot harder to replace 10m units at a UP of 1m/day, then it is to replace 10m weapons. Especially when you can just hit a few missed PPT accounts and get like 6T for the weapons in 4-5 hits.

MEZZANINE wrote:By this point the attacker has declared war and the defender is phased, then the defender could strike back with no nox at a time that suits them..

Correct me if I'm wrong. But without the alliance weapon repair, wouldn't war be set anyway? Since 80 3AT hits is hardly going to destroy the weapons, and 16 15At hits defiantly isn't.
Strike back with no nox? I guess as long as they don't use their own PPT, or the alliance PPT, or have a defence worth massing back, or they do it within the 24 hours that it takes for the relation to be reset, or the defender goes on PPT cause they have nothing left to mass back with, then sure i guess...

Sarevok wrote:

MEZZANINE wrote:Double edged sword, alliance repair is very helpful when you want to use it and extremely frustrating when someone else is using it, mainly because their is no chance of getting the repair naq to stop the person your attacking from repairing and banging away at an alliance repair button needs no skill. Also as previously mentioned it makes massing far far cheaper as on big strikes/defs the alliance cost was so much less than it would have cost the individuals to repair.

Actually this isn't correct. Again, people assuming you must destroy weapons to destroy a defence. You can mass them and kill the units (I'm pretty sure they die faster then weapons now anyway) and the weapons remain. They must retrain units or they will die. And if you are using the raid option instead of farm option, then any units they untrain to re-train start getting raided, and if you alternate farm and raid, then any naq they get out to farm with also gets taken.

Raiding a defense down is not an option for those over the raiding cap and their are ways to negate sabbing being effective against you.