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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:23 am
by Wolf359
high empty wrote:Wolf359 wrote:Lore wrote:Good to see you back Wolfe
But I never got were anyone thinks there is skill involved in this game? The only skill I see is getting others to follow your cause and fight for or with you. Politics is the only skill needed here.
At one time - when AT were not readily available all you had was 1 AT per turn - so you had to be selective with your targets to save them, organise group attacks,. Trust me - it wasa lot more fun then, getting online at 'stupid o'clock' in teh morning to participate in a massing against OoC - because tehat was the only way anyone could do it - you couldn't mass on yuor own - hence, more skill/strategy/co-operation was required.
What happens now?
Buy turns
Mass
Buy turns
Mass
Buy turns
Mass
Buy turns
Mass
Get the picture?
There are TOO MANY turns available - and that is what has led to the decline of SGW - at least before there was an element of skill and tactical thinking - now there is NONE! Where is the skill/strategy in just being turns from an everlasting supply and a single player being able to destroy entire alliances at whim because of it?
I'm serious in my suggestion, remove the ability to purchase turns from the market - make it so you can ONLY purchase them from other players. That WILL make the game more interesting and more competitive - people with have to plan more, bigger players will be forced to buy turns from the smaller players for more naq - so that improves the balance of the game.
And, I know that people will say 'But there won;t be enough turns' - well, to that I say this - Enough for what? The amount of turns was NEVER a problem until the market was introduced - people accepted they would have to bide their time and organise an attack, rather than just being able to buy a mass attack from the market. At teh moment, teh rich players have it all their own way - they can buy turns at will and mass/raid/atatck for naq at will. Removing turns from the market will help to restore much of the balance because turns will become less accessible, therefore the stronger players will either have to be more selective with their targets, or be prepared to pay inflated prices for turns.
Bottom line - removing turns from the market will help to solve the problems that we currently have - which were formed when mass turns became readily available on the market.
Truely big player will never have a problem getting turns. So that's a useless point.
Now for small player the only way for them to play the game is to have turns. It's the only way someone can catch up otherwise you play the game of it's their income vs my income. and whoever thinks a guy with 50million miner has to worry about anything is nuts.
With turn supply you have the option of using your time to further your account. i know 1 guy that's gone from a 15mill uu to a 50mill uu account in under 6 weeks cause he goes thur a pile of turns. TURNS are the way to even the score. Period
To say it is a useless point without backing it up is, frankly, a joke - perhaps you would care to expand on why?
The point I am making is - if artificially generated turns are taken off the market then the smaller players will be able to sell their turns to the bigger players for higher prices, and will then be able to use the naq to build their account better - so it gives the smaller player a little more control over the prices and allows them to build through their increased naq.
Turns are not the way to even the score as it only works if first of all you have an account that is strong enough to make use of them - you could give 10k turns to an account that is 5 days old - but what use would they be? Frankly, your example of a 15 million UU account being able to go to 50 million UU in 6 weeks is laughable as I'm guesssing that that 15 million UU account was already very powerful and able to attack/raid most accounts anyway. So teh argument of the strong becoming stronger that you have put across is MASSIVELY invalid.
Like I said - the problems in-game at the moment have arose because of the introduction of the mass availability of turns. You CAN'T fix the problem by introducing lower limits on the cause of the problem!
Acronon wrote:Yes, the key to all of this is turns.
Do not increase the total amount for the game I would just say have those that are under a 500k army size get extra turns every turn.
Like, 5 turns, lol.
I agree - Why have artificially introduced turns - where do they come from? The magic turn factory? The turns available in the game should ONLY be those turns that are produced by the players themselves.
The idea of getting more turns for smaller army sizes is interesting - but there would have to be a way of stopping it from being abused (multies etc).
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:44 am
by Teal'auc of the Void
Keep the limit as it is...no need to increase it. You have turns? use them, sell them, then get another.
Teal'auc
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:01 am
by Rottenking
maybe increse the limit to say 5k ( before you cant generate anymore) and maybe 12k for the other limit, if the limit is really hi, whats to stop someone makeing an account not use it for a year then come back trade like 10k worth of turns in, that would = a really big boost, ok who would really play a game and not play for a year, answer multi's and it would be the worst kind, they would nenver have to log in all they would have to do is just keep the account their, and ok this may not happen but it is still a possible way of abuse, atleast with a small cap on ammount on turns it would make that kind of cheating less likely, also, really why would you want to hold 50-100k at's thats a seriose ammount of attacks and really it would make it unfair, with 50-100k at's you could potentaly mass any allience or anyperson if you had enough repair naq and they were asleep or something, anywho thats my 2 bits worth
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:13 am
by renegadze
well speaking as someone that goes through quite a few thousand turns every week, I actually think the limit should remain.
Imagine what it would be like if the big players can stock pile 100k + turns. I'm pretty sure it would make a war pretty swift.
a well managed account can have 40k turns in it anyway so where's the problem?
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:46 am
by urogard
renegadze wrote:well speaking as someone that goes through quite a few thousand turns every week, I actually think the limit should remain.
Imagine what it would be like if the big players can stock pile 100k + turns. I'm pretty sure it would make a war pretty swift.
a well managed account can have 40k turns in it anyway so where's the problem?
before the limit we had some people very regularly having 50k+ and even 100k+ at's on hand. hint hint high empty
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:00 am
by High Empty
yeah i know however with the ( new source of turns then you don't have to worry about it) since the market will aways have turns.
@ Acronon
Think doing that will increase the number of multi as people would make sure that they have lots of account below 500k then use their turns to raid then then inturn raid those accounts with there main.
@ wolf, i have another ex: but he's only at 10mil and he (restarted) his account, a completely new account in the mid of oct.
If you think about it limited turns helps me. As for unlimited massing, tell you what you can mass alot of guys with 10k turns, about 30 of them. and then you can use your own market turns to Anticovert them or sub that part out.
As i see it, turns are the only way to level the battlefield.
unless someone has something else that would.
and Wolf. YOu can't put the genie back into Pandora's box
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:28 am
by [SGC_ReplicÅtors]
u no theres the trick to hold 40k Turns
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:07 pm
by Wolf359
high empty wrote:yeah i know however with the ( new source of turns then you don't have to worry about it) since the market will aways have turns.
@ Acronon
Think doing that will increase the number of multi as people would make sure that they have lots of account below 500k then use their turns to raid then then inturn raid those accounts with there main.
@ wolf, i have another ex: but he's only at 10mil and he (restarted) his account, a completely new account in the mid of oct.
If you think about it limited turns helps me. As for unlimited massing, tell you what you can mass alot of guys with 10k turns, about 30 of them. and then you can use your own market turns to Anticovert them or sub that part out.
As i see it, turns are the only way to level the battlefield.
unless someone has something else that would.
and Wolf. YOu can't put the genie back into Pandora's box
Appreciate the pandora's box bit bud - not that I entirely agree with it. Like I said elsewhere - it just needs guts to implement it.
I also don't agree that turns level the playing field - since it is only really the rich and strong that can afford and then use them to any great capacity (against the weak). To say turns even out teh playing field for newer players is incorrect as they do not have teh resource to buy them, or the power to use them.
As I have said - less turns (none artificially craeted) would level the playing field more because if teh strong rich players want them, then they will have to pay a high price to get them - and I'm sure that newer players would gladly sell at the right price and can then use the naq to build their accounts.
I am willing to be convinced otherwise, but nothing you have said so far has done that.
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:26 pm
by High Empty
[SGC_ReplicÅtors] wrote:u no theres the trick to hold 40k Turns
there was a trick, try it now!
As for wolf, new player by defination are noobs. and further a NEW player won't sell turns to anyone cause he can't he doesn't have FSS.
Now a player that sells turns is a player that isn't going to win, as for anyone who buys turns does so, so he can make a profit. Naq makes the world goes round. So frist you have the limited turns, which i can live with as i'll just farm anyone i please as then i'll know that they can't have as many turns needed to get me, and keep me down. Where as i will have their income barring if they log in every 30 mins to bank it.
wolf you have yet to state to me how someone with limited turns is supposed to catch up.
As for the my case i've stated it many a time. turn equal options.
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:33 pm
by Zeratul
if the market no longer makes turns, the weaker players can sell turns there to get great amounts of naq, and by the time they ascend/get FSS, they can start to black market for turns...
think how the price would grow on turns if market stopped generating them... then think how much naq a newbie needs to get respectable stats... then add the two together, and see the result...
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:36 pm
by Wolf359
high empty wrote:[SGC_ReplicÅtors] wrote:u no theres the trick to hold 40k Turns
there was a trick, try it now!
As for wolf, new player by defination are noobs. and further a NEW player won't sell turns to anyone cause he can't he doesn't have FSS.
Now a player that sells turns is a player that isn't going to win, as for anyone who buys turns does so, so he can make a profit. Naq makes the world goes round. So frist you have the limited turns, which i can live with as i'll just farm anyone i please as then i'll know that they can't have as many turns needed to get me, and keep me down. Where as i will have their income barring if they log in every 30 mins to bank it.
wolf you have yet to state to me how someone with limited turns is supposed to catch up.
As for the my case i've stated it many a time. turn equal options.
You've ststed it - and i've countered it - every time. And it is not SOMEONE with limited turns - it is EVERYONE - get rid of magically generated turns altogether - but that argument is for the other thread.
high empty wrote:Now a player that sells turns is a player that isn't going to win, as for anyone who buys turns does so, so he can make a profit
I agree - but that is only true because of the situation caused by the mass availability of turns - I don't know how many different ways I can say that!
And why can't a new player get SS?
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:37 pm
by Wolf359
Zeratul wrote:if the market no longer makes turns, the weaker players can sell turns there to get great amounts of naq, and by the time they ascend/get FSS, they can start to black market for turns...
think how the price would grow on turns if market stopped generating them... then think how much naq a newbie needs to get respectable stats... then add the two together, and see the result...
I'm glad someone understands!
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:53 pm
by High Empty
Zeratul wrote:if the market no longer makes turns, the weaker players can sell turns there to get great amounts of naq, and by the time they ascend/get FSS, they can start to black market for turns...
think how the price would grow on turns if market stopped generating them... then think how much naq a newbie needs to get respectable stats... then add the two together, and see the result...
i know how it would grow it was done about 5 months ago it didn't work, turns are always worth more then what you can sell them for. People will aways sell turns however anyone that sells turns isn't getting farther ahead, he's might be not losing ground as fast, but the quick buck isn't the best buck.
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:59 pm
by Zeratul
we agree that while it would in no way help the stronger players to sell turns, no matter the price, it would help those without FSS... since if the value of 1000 turns became about 40 bill naq, it would boost a weak players' stats greatly... maybe even help him get into G&R...
and the weaker players dont need the best deals the same way the strongest do... they only need good enough deals to help them grow...
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:53 pm
by Wolf359
high empty wrote:Zeratul wrote:if the market no longer makes turns, the weaker players can sell turns there to get great amounts of naq, and by the time they ascend/get FSS, they can start to black market for turns...
think how the price would grow on turns if market stopped generating them... then think how much naq a newbie needs to get respectable stats... then add the two together, and see the result...
i know how it would grow it was done about 5 months ago it didn't work, turns are always worth more then what you can sell them for. People will aways sell turns however anyone that sells turns isn't getting farther ahead, he's might be not losing ground as fast, but the quick buck isn't the best buck.
I agree - completely - under the
current system selling turns is not the smartest move - but neither is anything else (for various reasons I have previously explained) - the long and short of it is that the current setup of the game favours and makes it easier for the stronger to increase their accounts at a faster rate than the rest.
Under a system where there are no artifially created turns, and where a sensible low limit is put on the amount of turns an account will hold, then their is massive potential for those that sell turns to earn real naq/uu to boost their accounts.