StarGateWars Forums

wolf

you have a player that has explicitly told you he was small and grew because of raiding...(munchy) and you dont believe him

please catch munchy on msn and talk to him........there are ways for a player that is brand new and very small to grow very fast

in fact, if raiding was taken away that would create a bigger monopoly of the players that are already very big , it is true they can buy all the turns they want

but a player alot smaller then them if they have unlimited time can grow very very fast, i know of 2 players in my alliance that grew very very very fast, and because of raiding, it is a rough start


you raid with 1000 turns lets say............take the uu you got from that you sale it for naq, you buy more then 1000 turns from that, and you keep that up for awhile..........eventually you are buying entire market turns........and then you are buying 3 full market turns,,,,,,, you are keeping some of the uu you raid, selling more of it for more turns, you rinse repeat, over and over.........until you dont need to sell the uu anymore, and your income is big enuff.........

THIS CAN BE DONE growing from small account to big with raiding..........im not saying things cant be tweaked, or further things can be done to limit growth but to 100% take away getting turns on market place will hamper the small players more then you are understanding......

some of the biggest players in the game would gain from this change

they could afford to buy up all the turns from the small players (it was done before)..........then the medium players or small ones cant buy turns at all anymore, the big players have turns as always.......

so i feel taking away turns on marketplace would help the powerful more then it would hurt them in the great big picture, and hurt the smaller players the most

I understand that - but my point is being missed entirely - the mass amount of AT (coupled with Raid and the Market) has made the game stale, stagnant, boring and bred a bunch of mindless raiding stat builders. There is no challenge to the game anymore. There is only mindless monotony.

I watch on a daily basis on other games forums how big players from this game talk about 'Don't let this game go the same as SGW \ SGW is going downhill \ Please don't do that - it ruined SGW.'

If things are not done, people will begin to leave in droves - and I don't mean middle range or small players - I mean big players (I was talking to a rather powerful Omegan today who said something similar - no names though ). And, since there is no chance whatsoever of smaller/newer players catching teh big ones - then what is their incentive?

I said my suggestion wasn't perfect - but smething has to be done - it only remians to see if Forum is willing to do something big enough to do it.

However - I still do not see a really valid reason from thsoe who say they don't liek this - you say it will stunt growth of smaller accounts - but it would do likewise (and to a greater effect) to larger accounts.

If the big players get so fed up and leave in their droves why do the small players need incentives to catch them? They won't be here to catch.

The game isn't stale...... I intend to try to catch the big guys.

But If I had to wait in front of the PC for 6 hours to get enough turns to hit someone because I couldn't afford the over the top prices the rare turns were generating then I'm going to go and find something else to do instead. If you can't afford to attack and you spend your turn based income in 1 minute.......what do you do for the other 29 mins till you can stratigically aquire another UU level upgrade. (Always assuming you make enough a turn to increase your UU production once a turn) If the big guys making 84bill naq a turn and your making 40mil naq a turn who is going to get all the turns? And what do the big guys do? They sit on the turns so no-one can attack them because they have bought all the turns. And then they hit the small guy to get their naq back.

yes wolf......however there is a cap of sorts on growth........


so in my eyes there is 2 games within sgw at the moment

people trying to get to where the cap on growth is where the rules changes

and people that have reached this cap region

i do see you point as well........

I would suggest further enhancements on how growth is slowed down for top players ...........

I say further slow down the growth of top players, and allow the small players or medium players to grow as fast as they can............which would mean allowing them to raid alot

I give this a big yes, ever since this update, which seemed good at first, prices of everything have gone crazy. lets make it real, things arent infinite!

Thats the whole point.

Limit the turns and the prices will go through the roof. Only the big players will be able to afford it.

Now need drives the market. The fact that AT's are being bought and used at the rate they are should indicate to you where most peoples interests lie.

If attacking, raiding, and massing weren't what people wanted to do then there wouldn't be a market for the attack turns?

I don't have 100,000,000,000,000,000 miners but I don't suggest there should be a limit on miners to reduce peoples income. So why try to hamper another form of income?

Turns are supposed to signify the fact that your army needs time in between battles to rest and regroup. Sure, you could always save up turns and spend them at once. But that's because people can't be expected to sit around and wait for every turn to come and spend it immediately. However, since the introduction of the market the entire meaning of turns has gone down the drain.

How about limiting things from the other side then? Make it so there's 2 stacks of turns, basically. One that signifies the amount of turns you have. This regenerates at 3 per turn, and more can be bought if needed. Then there's a second stack which is basically your capacity to use those turns. This regenerates at, say, 30 per turn, and maxes at 10080 (one full week). These turns signify what the old turns used to, namely that you can only attack so much in a limited amount of time. Run out and your army needs to rest.

This is a compromise between (1) limiting the turns on the market, which will make prices grow and turns only affordable to the big guys, and (2) unlimited turns which skew the game towards those that have the most time, and sucks all strategy out of the game.

People who wish to buy and spend more turns than they generate are allowed to do so, within limits. People who can buy as many turns as they want will find that they are now limited in how many they can use. Small people who can't buy quite as many turns as those big guys will still be able to buy more turns, because instead of skyrocketing, turn prices will remain the same or even drop (cause people won't want to buy what they can't use.)

interesting idea, sleipnir... we likes it... but we fears that some bigger players will complain...

This would stabilize the power of big players, so why would they complain?

some of them usually go through 10k's of turns weekly, dont they?

with this version implemented, they could at most in one week use 20160 turns...

but we hope it is implemented, as it will help reduce power gap...

Ouch i forgot about that, Teal'auc is right...
It would only stop the mid players, those with about 2-20m army size...

Bazsy wrote:Ouch i forgot about that, Teal'auc is right...
It would only stop the mid players, those with about 2-20m army size...

Correction: everyone between 200k-20mil army size

Wolf, I understand your reasoning. HOWEVER... smaller players won't sell, since they need their turns too much actually. (And they first need to get Market SS....)

And btw.... Army size doesn't say all though... neither does rank or power. It is the way you handle it yourself.

I agree..whatever the number, 10,000...20,000...it would only serve to solidify the position that the top players are in already.

10,000 turns, I remember going through that in an hour or two when I just started playing(well, a month in about after I got my full SS, which I used the ingame market at's to raid for by the way).
I would raid all 10 k away, and about 30-40% of the uu's I raided I would trade back in for another 10 k turns. I repeated that cycle over and over. It was tedious, but even without a drop of my income(infact I was a noob and had 85% of my uu's in spys..), I was raising my army by well over a million a week.

The number of turns I went through was well over 50,000 a week, but by the end of summer I was nearly caught up to many of the large players. Then came the GA/Faction war and the ta/Alpha war which put me back abit, but through raiding and turn manipulation I was able to get going again rather quickly.

Lately my ability to raid has been minimal because of time restrictions, so I have been buying uu's. And guess what? I was growing faster with an army 1/3rd of my current size while raiding, than I am now just buying. Those who say raiding 10,000+ turns a week is only for big players are missing something.

Yes, the current system requires alot of dedication to keep up, but why shouldn't it? 10,000 turns, or even 20,000 turns, would simply mean that small and middle size players would never be able to catch up to the larger players...not because of their lack of interest in the game...but rather because the game won't let them.

Teal'auc [Tok'ra] wrote:Limitting of attacking? Heh, no offence, man, but that would probably make angry a lot of people, who want to attack. FYI, I too run through a LOT of turns per week mostly, and same for the others. As for the big players...they generate that much naq, that they don't even need to raid or farm most of the time, at least not that intensively. So all you would stop is these middle players, who still must work hard for their personal growth. Small players would not be affected by that, as they would not be able to afford more anyways.

So again, big players would not notice... only those who play the game and mass, as they don't raid or farm that much anymore (as far as I know, it can still be individual from person to person...) to one point, big players don't need to go through thousands of turns to sustain their needs as their own income covers most of their basic needs.




Teal'auc

What, so people will be angry because something is limited that should have remained limited in the first place? Maybe you should really start to think what you're doing with those turns. You know, there was a time you could attack anyone without fear of getting massed. Simple reason? People had to think before spending their turns. So if someone had a large chunk of naq out, you took it. Nowadays you have to check wether they're with a certain alliance, or have a commander who could mass you 10 times over, or are just plain crazy. Bullying tactics have prevailed, simply because people like yourself could afford to mass anyone they want. If turns are limited again, you'll have to consider wether massing the guy who spent one turn on your officers niece's friends alliance member's brother is worth it. Which will bring some long lost peace of mind back to the game. Also, since raiding will be limited, there's a good chance raid farms will have a lot more to offer, to the little guys AND the mid range guys.