Injuring Miners

[Zeratul]

injuring, is temporary... killing is permanent... big difference...

[repli**cator]

i like it, nice suggestion really i downright love it.

2 remarks/questions

what happens to the attacking MS?
does it take damage from the defender in the same way as a MS battle (killing shields, weapons, fleets), in both situations (A>D, A<D)


wouldn't this also make AT demand go even higher... (i don't care about this, just a tiny remark)

[TacticalCommander]

what happens to the attacking MS?
does it take damage from the defender in the same way as a MS battle (killing shields, weapons, fleets), in both situations (A>D, A<D)

I intended that damage to the Mother Ships would be the same as it is in a normal attack, both to the attacking and defending MS. Shields, then weapons, then fleets.

Then any damage that the attacking MS would normally go to boost the ground attack, instead gets dispersed over the miners injuring some of them.

The defending defense takes no damage. As the Attacking MS doesn't even fire at it.

I suppose that if a defending player proved greater than the attacking MS, the attacking MS may take an increased amount of damage, because the defender isn't worried about defending an attacking army, so all that damage is dealt to one object, the attacking MS, instead of being boosted to the defense.

Hope that answers your questions.

TC

[mitola]

suporting the idea all the way long

[mitola]

well buts little unlogical that miners are only injured. lets say it should e some % of them killed. beacuse its logical that are casualties
1% of 100%injures is kiiled or soemthing like that

[Bob_2007]

well buts little unlogical that miners are only injured. lets say it should e some % of them killed. beacuse its logical that are casualties
1% of 100%injures is kiiled or soemthing like that

It is not illogical at all. Miners are unkillable for a reason, which should be fairly obvious. There are already players who will take advantage of a twenty or thirty to one att to def ratio to hit people. Imagine when the guys who have spent a few tens of tril on their ms's can kill miners?! Game over for a very large number of people, and bye-bye all the naq farms of inactive players that all the new/small and even medium players are happily farming.

[mitola]

true indeed. but tell me how can you injure 10000 miners without killing 1?

[Bob_2007]

true indeed. but tell me how can you injure 10000 miners without killing 1?

Lol... ooooookay... Perhaps injuring miners is the wrong term.

Tell me how your miners can work, when the mine's getting bombarded by a MS. So let's call it "disabling" miners, if you like...

[TacticalCommander]

Frist

true indeed. but tell me how can you injure 10000 miners without killing 1?

While that is logical, but adding in the code to kill 1 out 10,000 would be not be pratical.

1 to 10,000
10, to 100,000
100 to 1,000,000
1,000 to 10,000,000

The amount is so small, that the overall effect vs the amount of effort to code in is not worth while in my opinion.


Second
I've started working out the numbers, but let me be the first to say my math isn't the best in the world, so if you find something better wether in popularity or balance, by all means say something.

Injured Miners:
- Don't produce Naq
- Bank space NOT effected
- A % amount of miners are injured per successful attack

Other Options for Consideration
- A max % of miners that can be injured

These attacks are like conqueror planet, they cost 15 turns. straight out.

starting of with a % injured, based on the amount of damage your MS does.
I was thinking 1% injured per 20bil MS damage that bleeds through and hits the miners, more damage, more injured. I think this is fair in that players with huge MS have spent a lot of Naq to have that MS huge. Certainly more than what they would've spent to buy the additional AT to injure same amount of miners through more attacks.

Also, theres a cap, a max of 90% can be injured. I agree that people should still get some amount of income. 90% should be enough to accomplish the job, but 10% should allow for purchases of PPT and such. But when it comes down to it, people will need to plan ahead and have naq stored in their bank.

so if the max damage an MS can put through is
10bil through, would take 180 attacks or a total of 2700 AT
20bil through, would take 90 attacks or a total of 1350 AT.
40bil through, would take 45 attacks or a total of 675 AT
60bil through, would take 30 attacks or a total of 450 AT
80bil through, would take 23 attacks or a total of 345 AT

keep in mind, the defending MS or defense may have to be removed first and would there for cost more than that amount of AT.

This based on, to do 20bil damage, you need 10k weps on your MS, give or take a few, that costs 521bil naq from scratch. Not that hard to farm, or work toward.

Also note, to upgrade ones MS to do 60bil damage, instead of 40bil saves 125 AT, that saves at current market rate about 7bil naq or so, lets make it 10bil naq, say they had a real bad deal.

They would have to spend, 2.521 Trillion naq to upgrade to 60bil from 40bil. So people won't upgrade their MS simply to injure the same amount using less turns, at least if they do, they are spending alot more naq than if they simply just bought more AT.

Now even if this seems much, keep in mind, with the defense amplification, a mere 15 bil defense can stop an MS capable putting 100 bil damage through cold. Thats even factoring in the fact defense doesn't do full damage. Add in realm alert and nox and you can put a decent fight against having your miners injured no matter your size.

Miner Recovery
- % each turn or to reduce lag on turn change, have a larger % per day
- should be slow, for 100% I'm think a minimum 2 days, 48 turns
---Faster this is, the less effective the desired result will be
---desired result is winnable wars

That is in my favorite option for recovery, because its simple and in my opinion requires the least upfront work, and can be adjusted to include other ideas at a later date if needed/wanted.

For these numbers, once a day, 30% of miners are recovered.

So if someone has 90% injured, it will take 3 full days to fully recover. Thats still giving 1 Full day of income if they use a 4 day PPT run or they can get 2 full days of income if they go on PPT right after the first 30% of miners recover.

These percents are based on the total number of miners, not army size.


Finally
Example Battle Report

Super One uses its Energy Volley to inflict 47,760,000,000 damage, destroying 530 Energy Shields on Super Two!
Blowing through the extended shield defenses, it also destroyed 607 Pod Volley, and totally destroyed 0 fleets!
1,646,229,277 damage awaits to be used against the enemy miners.

Someones defense is amplified and manages to add an additional 50,000,000,000 bil damage to support their MS.

Super Two uses its Pod Volley and support damage from defense to inflict 55,770,000,000 damage, destroying 271 Energy Shields on Super One
Blowing through the extended shield defenses, it also destroyed 730 Pod Volley, and totally destroyed 26 fleets!

The forces of Someone decimated those of....etc etc.

If the attacker had won it would read after defending damage was dealt that the left over damage was then dealt to the miners injuring so many followed by the usual decimated those of etc.

TC

[Omoc]

This isea has my vote lol

We should be ablet to hit miners as well...

[Zeratul]

how about, instead of having MS do the anti-miner strike, have it done by a satallite...

(for specific type of satallite, see the last episode of season 3 of stargate Atlantis)

the satallite would then travel into planet orbit, and activate, then fire at naq mines, collapsing entrances, and causing miners to be trapped/hurt...

recovery would take time, but for practical reasons of not overpowering it, miners would still not die...

what does people think?

[Bob_2007]

how about, instead of having MS do the anti-miner strike, have it done by a satallite...

(for specific type of satallite, see the last episode of season 3 of stargate Atlantis)

the satallite would then travel into planet orbit, and activate, then fire at naq mines, collapsing entrances, and causing miners to be trapped/hurt...

recovery would take time, but for practical reasons of not overpowering it, miners would still not die...

what does people think?

Or make it a covert op.

The miners are whipped into rebellion, and stop working.

You have to use anti-covert ops to quell the rebellion. The more antis you use, the faster it's quelled - but the more miners they have to kill to restore order. So you can restore order fast and lose a percentage of your miners, or you can restore order slow and lose less.

[repli**cator]

nah i think the MS idea is the best since it requires less new things being brought in.
inventing a satelite seems a bit difficult, making it a covert action would suck since it no doubt would be limited by either covert turns or something else.

EDIT:
after doing some thinking;
maybe it would be better to use a new external thing for injuring miners.
since MS are already out there with big ATK.

[Zeratul]

the satallite would simply be text (not an actual piece of the account, except maybe as an item on tech page, and new attack...)

why make some very large part of code to make it, when one can have a simple technology that, if bought, makes that attack available... the rest of the stuff about the attack, would be written text...

[TacticalCommander]

first, no to covert because thats too similiar to whats in ascension.

as for satelite,
as I said on MSN, it would just make it easier to hit miners. Because if it is name only, then theres no way to defend against it, unless you require a minimum defense or MS power needed or something.

In the end you still need miners that are injured, a recovery rate, a new attack, essentially it would take the same amount of work.