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WHAT! I cant believe I hear this about luke **Filtered** whip baby skywalker. Revan IS canon, and so what Jecen solo describes it as 20 lightsabres at once? Jacen knows no better all he has ever know is Luke, not to mention he is inexperienced. What an outrageous claim. Luke Skywalker. He wouldnt stand up to a fully fledge Vader, Palpatine Or Yoda. His knowledge of the force is nothing compared to theirs and neither is his power. I believe master skywalker dies of old age. Tis amazing lol..Yoda was that strongly connect to the force he escaped that death for 900 years, Palps escaped it for a good 20 or so years. Lol..there is nothing, nothing at all that would be able to make any proud and true star wars fan admit puke stupidwalker was on any similar level or above at any point in his life to the legends as mentioned above. The old guard dies with Vader, Palpatine and Yoda and the jedi/sith never return to what they were..ever.

I do recall the new guy (sith) was insulted by Ragnos and Nilhius to.

Another perfect example it takes luke and an entire college of jedi to banish exar khuns soul...only took one jedi in the past to finish him off. (Ulric sandov? can never remember the name).

No lol.. luke was just another idiot with a lightsabre who had a famous father and instructor.

Semper wrote:WHAT! I cant believe I hear this about luke **Filtered** whip baby skywalker. Revan IS canon, and so what Jecen solo describes it as 20 lightsabres at once? Jacen knows no better all he has ever know is Luke, not to mention he is inexperienced. What an outrageous claim. Luke Skywalker. He wouldnt stand up to a fully fledge Vader, Palpatine Or Yoda. His knowledge of the force is nothing compared to theirs and neither is his power. I believe master skywalker dies of old age. Tis amazing lol..Yoda was that strongly connect to the force he escaped that death for 900 years.

He beat the Reborn Emperor........ the version of Palps that Luke fought was younger than the original but just as powerful and Luke kicked his ass, ok Yoda lived till he was 900 uh-oh unfortunately we dont know how long Yodas race lives normally so that point is moot. Palps was what 90 in ROTJ so um not really all that old in the SW universe. Jacen went on a five year hiatus to learn more about the Force something no other Jedi has ever done....hmmm I would say his opinion is pretty valid. Ok you wanna make Revan canon then KYLE KATARN IS INVINCIBLE WITH A LIGHTSABER.

Kyle katarn was a nub, one tiny explosion and oh oooh, he's dead

- Revan amassed an un-ending armada of sith fleets and crushed the republic and the order
- Nihlius absorbs life force and the works through the force, the more force, the more he absorbs
- Sion used the force to make himself immortal

And exar khun well, he's exar khun lol

Luke beat a weakened clone of palpatine..so dont give me that nonsence. Yoda's race normally live for about 50-60 years..its in one of the general star wars fact books.

Jacen solo never learns as much about the force as the old guys do, i wont have that said..considering most of it was destroyed during one of the may OLD wars there have been... the sith wars, the jedi civil wars, the jedi purge and the reign of the galactic empire. So thats a nice old lot of BS when its at home now aint it.

Woop de doo lol..Katarn defeated a handful of dark jedi in a valley. Its amazing lol. Revan commanded hundreds if not thousands of them! Katarn had to take them on one at a time. Im sure Vader, palps of Yoda would of beaten them all at the same time.

Lol..you just havnt got a leg to stand on, luke and the others were just nothing compared to the old guys. The reputation of Darth Vader a lone is enough to encompass them all. Not to mention what ive quoted before, but obviously have to go to again, from a lucasart game (yes...that means Big G himself endorsed and supported the story line of the game) Jedi and Sith get WEAKER not stronger..WEAKER as time is going by. SO it is literally impossible for luke, jacen, katarn to be anything compared to the old guys. You cant argue with GL himself as after all he created it all and is the rule maker.

I believe this argument has just been ended.

and if you want to go by that then according to GL Luke Skywalker has the full raw potential of Anakin and Anakin is the most powerful Jedi to ever live so now I think the argruement is over

no...he never says that... why would a public figure like george Lucas go and contradict himself..

another thing Jedi and Sith get weaker as they get older not as generations pass, go look again Semper Anakin had the most raw potential of any Jedi ever until Luke who somehow had the same potential. By the same token of Jedi and Sith get weaker as they get older then by that theory you contradict yourself in that the Reborn Emperor had all the same skills and powers as the original except that he was younger and therefore more powerful.

no...I have not once contradicted myself. The Jedi and Sith get older with the generations. NOT MY WORDS thats a FACT, one you cannot argue with. The reborn Emperor was not more powerful then before, he was weaker, I said weaker...do read old boy. He was in a failing clone body. and wait! just to show how much you do know..luke dosent even defeat palpatine. Han shoots palpatine in the back..then another jedi takes the soul into him and they both die together. I was waiting to see if you would admit it..but now im just gonna have to pwn you..

In power terms Jedi and Sith get more powerful as they get older. I never said they get weaker as they get older..have u never played KOTOR II? If you have, I suggest you do so again and LISTEN to what Kreia tells you, she reveals a lot about the force that isnt mentioned in the films. She says that the jedi and sith of old were far more terrible then any of the modern ones..(and by terrible she means powerful)

If you really want to go into...then 1. Vader was the chosen one. Formed from the midichlorians themselves. He had the highest count of midichlorians. You can quote Lucas on that. Luke came from a non-force user and Vader. He wasnt the chosen one, there were no prophisies of him, Luke is weaker. I cant see how you can even debate it... EVERY self respecting star wars fan knows DV didnt slaughter luke because he didnt want to kill his son. It's also amazing how..DV gets mad = earthquake, luke gets mad = crazy eyes.
DV could of killed the emperor, it was revealed by the seer's head he managed to get from Fett, Luke couldnt kill palpatine, even when he was a weak clone.

What else..hmmm...Luke admits Lord Kyre or whatever his name is (Luke beats him in a battle near the old jedi temple on YV controlled courscant.) Luke ADMITS he had more power then skywalker..and then Lucas has said there hasnt been a sith as powerful as palpatine since. Not to mention palpatine saught out Exar khun, Nilhius and Ragnos, as did your future sith, all of whome gave there blessing to palpatine, and none to the new sith that opposed skywalker.

It is also said in these silly expanded books not written by lucas that were basing all this on...(the KOTOR characters and knowledge came from Lucas, the stories were written by sumone else, I could be wrong on that, so dont quote me there..) that there is more to power in the force then the ability to call upon it, but rather the knowledge and control one has of it. If you can honestly sit there and tell me Luke would know more about the force then palps, yoda, Kreia, Revan, Malak, Khun, Ragnos..all of the greats..then you truly are a fool.

then! wait..im not finished yet..lol..there is that pupil of lukes..who he also admits is stronger then him...wow..lol..its not looking good for old skywalker here is it now? Give me some more time..ive exhausted all the knowledge I have in my head when it comes to this topic..or at least what i can remember of it for now. I shall have to do some reading.. and get back to whooping you later..

I suggest you re-read the books my friend especially the ROTS and PM books Qui-Gon lost to Maul because he was to OLD Dooku lost to Anakin because he was to old and could not keep up with the younger Jedi. Luke fought Palps and it was a basic stalemate and at the time Luke was not a Master, Luke imo didn't become a Master until The Unifying Force before that he was a bit of a **Filtered** I agree there, however saying that Luke is weak is just incredibly foolish as George Lucas said he *Luke* had the full potential of Anakin Skywalker. Again you bring up KOTOR II I told you I do not count the games as canon because simply put you dont have to even build a lightsaber you can play the entire game with a blaster if you want to and according to you Revan is a master, tell me how can you master the Force if you cannot stay on one side of it for more than a year.DV DID kill the Emperor you know he threw him into a really deep well full of electricity hmmm sounds dead to me. Palps being the most powerful Sith in recent times absolutely 100% do not dispute this but Luke has twice the potential as Palps and therefore has the ability to be twice as good but again Luke did not have the same control of the Force until later on in his life until really the end of NJO and DN Luke just was not powerful enough to really stand toe-toe with the Emperor and win decisively. Neither of us is going to admit that the other is right so we are really just wasting time on a pointless arguement that has been going on really since the books were written. I did enjoy this at least someone has the same knowledge as myself albeit a different perspective.

Angnoch wrote:I suggest you re-read the books my friend especially the ROTS and PM books Qui-Gon lost to Maul because he was to OLD Dooku lost to Anakin because he was to old and could not keep up with the younger Jedi. Luke fought Palps and it was a basic stalemate and at the time Luke was not a Master, Luke imo didn't become a Master until The Unifying Force before that he was a bit of a **Filtered** I agree there, however saying that Luke is weak is just incredibly foolish as George Lucas said he *Luke* had the full potential of Anakin Skywalker. Again you bring up KOTOR II I told you I do not count the games as canon because simply put you dont have to even build a lightsaber you can play the entire game with a blaster if you want to and according to you Revan is a master, tell me how can you master the Force if you cannot stay on one side of it for more than a year.DV DID kill the Emperor you know he threw him into a really deep well full of electricity hmmm sounds dead to me. Palps being the most powerful Sith in recent times absolutely 100% do not dispute this but Luke has twice the potential as Palps and therefore has the ability to be twice as good but again Luke did not have the same control of the Force until later on in his life until really the end of NJO and DN Luke just was not powerful enough to really stand toe-toe with the Emperor and win decisively. Neither of us is going to admit that the other is right so we are really just wasting time on a pointless arguement that has been going on really since the books were written. I did enjoy this at least someone has the same knowledge as myself albeit a different perspective.

How do you explain Yoda and his ability to nutt anyone then? He beat Dooku, he beat palps in sword combat, palps had to resort to the force. Or Obi Wan Kenobi, he was older then anakin, but he beat him? Your logic is flawed my dear boy...

and so luke came to a stale mate with a dying clone? That dosent deny the fact you were wrong about him beating the emperor.

If luke HAS the potential, but dosent use it..well..lol. Were not talking about potential, were talking about what they actually have, not what they could have. Cos if you want to talk about Potential, then anakin had all the potential meaning luke was never the most powerful because he had THE SAME potential as anakin and therefore they're both equal? SO neither is stronger by your judgement...meaning your still wrong..

If your going to consider the books canon then your going to have to take the games as canon. You cannot have one and deny the other.

Of course Revan can become a master..for gods sake! Know your stuff mate! Revan was a Jedi for AGES! Then he turned to the sith.. and he was a sith for long enough...he fought in the mandalorian wars..that was a good few years..it was his idea to use malachor.

neither of us is going to admit the others right? What have u come up with? You havnt proved or come up with hardly anything, ive thrown a mountain of star wars knowledge and facts on you..destroyed your logic post after post.... now your just clinging onto a corrupt opinion created by the new generation of star wars that obviously seem's to ignore the old gen.

not really but keep thinking what you want the games are not canon imo therefore we are unable to judge his powers, once there is a book written about him then I will give him more respect as it stands you cannot base how powerful he is off of a game, Luke is the most powerful Jedi when did Yoda ever use Emerald Lightning when did any other Jedi use Emerald Lightning NEVER it is discovered by Luke, now the new Jedi may not have the same knowledge as the old Jedi but they are still as powerful if not mroe so due to what they have done, my logic is not flawed Obi-Wan was calm when he fought that battle and he knew everything Anakin could do to him due to him training Anakin but Anakin could have won if he had not allowed himself to be crippled by his anger. Yoda beat Dooku old guy vs. old guy old guy with more power would have won but Dooku ran. Yoda vs. Palps Yoda left because clone troopers were approaching says so in ROTS novel. Like I said neither of us is going to admit that we are wrong but this thread is way off-topic. Until you can give me one extremely good reason for considering the games canon they simply are not. According to GL Luke/Anakin are the most powerful Jedi to ever live and if you have even read anything after NJO you would know that Luke is most definitely deserving of his Master title

I may not know nearly as much about startwars as you guys, but im inclined to side 100% with semper, especially since he isnt making excusses for things, such as "anakin WOULD have won, if he wasnt weaker" to me thats like saying "I WOULD have got that goal, if i didnt miss"

re-read my post buddy and then go read ROTS novel it states that Anakin lost because his anger controlled him, truth is Obi-Wan was nowhere near as strong as Anakin but Obi-Wan had experience, calm, and The Force on his side when he fought Anakin at Mustafar therefore Obi-Wan beat Anakin though I wouldn't consider that winning. Luke was able to reawaken then good in Vader by showing Vader the love between a Father and Son that is what caused the original Emperor to die. I am sorry that you disagree with me Semper but GL has stated repeatedly that Luke/Anakin have the most power of any Jedi. Read NJO and LOTF you will see the kind of power Luke has. [sarcasm] Jack I am shocked I really thought GL wrote NJO whatever will I do [/sarcasm] GL didn't write KOTOR either but he approved every storyline in the EU.
Whether or not you know it Semper the entire SW fanbase has been arguing about whether the games are canon on the same level as the books since they first made SW games. Some believe as you obviously do that they are canon and others believe that they are not. I personally believe that they are close but not on the same level as the books due to the fact that the powers one used in a game are exagerrated beyond belief. Was Revan powerful? Yes. Did he exist in the EU? Obviously he left a holocron in PoD. Was he the most powerful Jedi to ever live? No emphatically no. Was he talented and did he have access to more knowledge than Luke? For a time but remember Luke basically trained himself with a lightsaber. His own style originally mimicked Vaders in ESB but come ROTJ his saber skills had surpassed Vaders and Vader was skilled enough to hunt and kill Jedi Masters. If you count games as canon then Vader was skilled enough to kill Cin Drallig the sword master of the entire Jedi Order and after he was entombed in his suit he still killed Jedi.

Bah, this is one of the reasons I loathe the new films.

Palpatine and Yoda weren't meant to be "fighters." They were the backseat manipulators/mentors on the opposite ends of the spectrum. The idea that the Emperor worked his way to the top through plotting, scheming and manipulating alone was an extremely effective one. So was the concept of Yoda at this wise, buddha type character offering wisdon and advice from the sidelines.

This was of course before the new films turned them into action figure achetypes..

You cant tell me when yoda walked into the emperors office, Killed those 2 guards useing the force, then said "if so powerful you are, when for then do you leave?" It didnt bring a smile to your face....