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Jack wrote:Ok, first off, there really are people with ADD/ADHD

no one is disputing this.

Jack wrote:However, I highly disagree with medicating anyone with ADD/ADHD

that's what we're saying. it appears to us that an unacceptably large number of people are medicated (w/o assurances of it working/helping) just to cover those who really do need such treatment. however, we also reject the scientology extreme that no medication should be given. ever.

Jack wrote:I also do not approve of medicating the "depressed" as it's generally just drugs, not a cure but a bandage. It doesn't help at all in the long run, and in the end they wind up addicted to drugs. Making the matter worse.

This isn't on the topic of scientology, but a question about what you wrote. What anti-depressants are habit-forming?

Spacey wrote:

Jack wrote:I also do not approve of medicating the "depressed" as it's generally just drugs, not a cure but a bandage. It doesn't help at all in the long run, and in the end they wind up addicted to drugs. Making the matter worse.

This isn't on the topic of scientology, but a question about what you wrote. What anti-depressants are habit-forming?

Yes Spacey. I've witnessed it first hand....[/quote]
Yes, you mentioned that it happens, but you didn't say which one(s).

As far as I know, anti-depressant drugs are not habit forming. I haven't read any journal articles about it, and I know the drugs work on different receptors in the body.

For example, opiates (morphine, codine, etc.) and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI's; Prozac, Zoloft, etc.) act in different ways on different receptors in the body.

Here is a good chart about drugs that can cause a dependence.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... nce%29.svg

If there is any scientific evidence supporting a dependence when taking them, I would be interested in seeing it.

Spacey wrote:For example, opiates (morphine...

You could have stopped right there. Pain killers are another thing which are easily abused. Normal people can (and many have) become addicted just after normal accidents or such when they are needed. There are illicit drugs (marajuana I believe) that only cause psycological addictions. Pain killers and anti-depressants (and I suppose sleep pills also perhaps) work in the same way. The chemicals may not show any substantial evidence, but the behavior will if closely observed.

And BTW, I also agree ADD meds are easily over prescribed. Some people need it, true. But some people just see it as a get out of jail free. Don't tell me you haven't heard of kids who start selling their prescriptions in schools.

My cousin is ADHD and there is a remarkable difference between him since he went on meds. He's really bright, but it was hard to know before because he wouldn't be in one place at one time. Jmho.

I understand what you're saying Jack, and it makes excellent sense. However, not everyone has the capacity for the level of self-control you're talking about. Not everycase of ADD/ADHD can/should be treated with meds, but in cases like that of Pheonix' cousin they seem to have helped a great deal. perhaps the cousin is more 'normal' now, but sometimes all you have to do is give someone the chance at 'normal' so they can see clearly enough to go beyond it.

as a more abstract example, suppose a scientific genius revealed to be on drugs for add/adhd and credited them with being the one thing that gave him the focus to do so well in his field. surely you could not argue against them in that instance.

Unfortunately, I'm remembering that either Einstein or Edison could have been ADD. Can't remember which (and it might just be hearsay).

For me scientology is the perfect example of a religion at its start. Newer religions have a hard time starting because, there is not much proof. It seems that the only way for a "modern" person to believe in a religion is to pick one that is thousands of years old and has had a chance to cover up its humble beginnings. As many have mentioned, the fact that he wrote SciFi does not at all help the credibility of the religion.
Here is my proof for atheism:
Polytheism<Monotheism so since the fewer gods in a religion makes it more logical, then: Monotheism<Atheism.......
Of course there are holes in my worldview, but I will gladly convert to Scientology if they can show me that they have "mental" powers over matter. James Randi has a million dollar prize for anyone who can show him proof of these powers. No one has claimed it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_snow_white

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but good stuff.

I don't so much have a problem with what professed scientologists believe in as much as I do with the twisted actions of their fanatical organization. They literally abuse the law to make themselves seem like a legitimate religion and not a cult.

I will say though, if dianetics works for some people, if it guides them in a way no other religion can. Great!

I've seen some really very motivated people who claim to be scientologists. I don't know where they draw that ambition from but they definitely seem very determined to do something or be something.. More.

I'm not a professed anything, I'm christian based but I don't consider myself a christian as I don't follow the word of jesus/god.

But the scientologists don't even seem to have that much to go on. Nothing about their beliefs would convince me to ever commit myself to it's teachings or exercises.

I say it's a little late in the game to be taking up the sword to crusade against long accepted religions such as christianity, as dianetics is now doing. The motives of it's members and leaders are shady at best. Even under the most open minded light of observation, so-to-speak.

well, considering we have done the cons of Scientology, perhaps someone could point out some things from the other side, just to see what they would have to say.

what are the positives of Scientology? what makes people join? what is the selling point?

Two words: plausible deniability.

Dare not question the greatness and holiness of Xenu, or you will face your doom prematurely, which isn't like we want it to happen. >_>

* Xenu represent *


((Wasn't Xenu featured in some funky computergame?))

(would it surprise you!?)